Is Opticianry Dead?

[eye2]

Wow! Wes and gmc I see the point jediron is making. As for Roy he should have said where he got the quote from and I think all of this could have been avoided. But as Roy said " it's embarrassing " it is having people call themselves opticians and you can't even take a seg height or know how to measure a lined bifocal. Really! But as jediron1 pointed out this is exactly what as he calls The Big Boxes and Empire want. They don't want licensed people, stylists are fine. I know I have been there and seen it.

[Wes]

I dunno - something about those numbers from this "test in multiple states" seems fishy. It certainly does not seem to fit the bill from a percentage standpoint in the states that I've worked in.

Have you worked in many licensing states?

FYI, Dr. Roy Ferguson administers the practical exams for several state opticianry boards here in the southeast, South Carolina being one of them. As such, he has access to the results of "tests in multiple states". A visit to either the SC opticians association meeting or the SC board's website to read the minutes confirm his numbers. Going back several years, on average, we have something like a 50% pass rate. Since the implementation of Roy's exam it is closer to 60%. These are rough numbers from memory, but if you wish you can look it up.

Ok, I looked it up: http://www.llr.state.sc.us/POL/Optic...es/minutes.htm
"The South Carolina Practical Examination in Opticianry is being administered by The

Learning Curve to 13 candidates on this day, December 6, 2010; eight of the candidates areretaking the exam. The June 7, 2010 Practical Examination was administered to 22

candidates; 12 of the candidates passed"
"
December 7, 2009 Practical Examination – The examination was administered by Dr.

Roy Ferguson of The Learning Curve. Seventeen candidates sat for the examination; ten

passed, seven failed."
"
The South Carolina Practical Examination in Opticianry was administered December 11,

2008 by Mr. Lee Carter to 21 candidates and resulted in 11 passing and 10 failing the

examination."
"S.C. Practical Examination:
Ms. Combs reported that twenty-four candidates sat for the December 5, 2007 S.C. Practical Examination; sixteen candidates passed and eight candidates failed to pass. Breakdown of results: four candidates failed Neutralization, two candidates failed Prescription Interpretation, and five candidates failed Frame Fitting / Lens Measure. "

Apprenticeship in action. (Or is it inaction?) These tests, especially the one Roy administers are practical tests of situations opticians are faced with on a daily basis.

[gmc]

As for Roy he should have said where he got the quote from and I think all of this could have been avoided.

What part of this wasn't clear?

To understand the state of opticianry, consider the person who in the General Optics forum who posted the following:

[LandLord]

Opticianry is not dead, it is just mentally and physically challenged.

[optilady1]

I wish this thread would die. I'm getting whip-lash and nothing is getting accomplished. Besides, in about 3 weeks I'm sure there will be an identical arguement that will play out between the usual suspects. And the cycle will begin again.

[Diopterman]

I wish this thread would die. I'm getting whip-lash and nothing is getting accomplished. Besides, in about 3 weeks I'm sure there will be an identical arguement that will play out between the usual suspects. And the cycle will begin again.

If you can get past all of the "Mine is bigger than yours" rhetoric, do you have an opinion;

Is Opticianry dead?

What are your thoughts on why or why not? It would be great to hear some others chime in and avoid the mess that this thread has become!

[optilady1]

What are your thoughts on why or why not? It would be great to hear some others chime in and avoid the mess that this thread has become!


I certainly don't think the career I've spent a lot of time and effort learning and continue to learn is dead- I'm still here. But as a whole nothing will change or move forward until it's required to be licensed in each state. I think the only future opticianry can have is a foundation of education that involves some kind of 'internship' in a real world practical setting.

But I don't know how to go about implementing such a change. I'm not knowledgable about these types of things. I'm lucky I live in a state where the opticians association is very active, and I'm not embarrassed to say I'm content with the small roll I play: I pay my dues, encourage other apprentice opticians to get a formal education, and do my job to the best of ability.

It might sound hypocrytical to not be willing to be part of a million optician march on the powers that be. I am not at a point in my life where I can help change things, I can only support in the smallest of ways. However I also chose to not live in states that don't have licensing.

Does that answer your question Diopterman? I don't think we are dead yet. But I don't have any answers other than the obvious as to how to change our predicament. How's that for an honest answer?

[eye2]

What part of this wasn't clear?

Ok it's all cleared up. My apologies to Roy as jediron1 has already extended the same too Roy. But you missed the point. We were saying and still say it's embarrassing to see these people call themselves opticians as well as who there employers are calling them opticians. As I noted before along with jediron1 we believe the Big Boxes have more to do with this right along with the Empire. You completely or just ignored the fact that I have seen and heard with my own ears the Empire does not care whether there managers or associate managers have licenses as long as they have a licensed Doc. Or in NY one licensed optician on premis. I have seen it and have actually talked to a few of them in the Empire. That does not mean that motivated people can't get there license but when it's made clear they don't care if you have one or not many don't bother. I was told the Empire was only concerned with how good is the bottom line not whether you have a license or don't have a license. Many of the Empires managers and associates managers in NY are not licensed. And many of there RM's for the Empire and Sears optical are also non-licensed, so you have a blanten disregard to try to find licensed people to fill those positions. Just my yapping!

[Johns]

It might sound hypocrytical to not be willing to be part of a million optician march on the powers that be.

It doesn't sound hypocritical, it sound "silly". (I opted for a gentle word here)

You would have much more impact if you designed a magnetic ribbon type decal that you could affix to the trunk of your car. It would have the same impact as a march, but you wouldn't have to inconvenience a bunch of folks to go out, on their day off, and actually move.

Or, you could contact Wes, and see if he has any ideas. The new association he's talking about sounds a bit far fetched, but it just might work. At least they seem to be going in a positive direction, and not standing around asking "what if".

[Diopterman]

What are your thoughts on why or why not? It would be great to hear some others chime in and avoid the mess that this thread has become!


I certainly don't think the career I've spent a lot of time and effort learning and continue to learn is dead- I'm still here. But as a whole nothing will change or move forward until it's required to be licensed in each state. I think the only future opticianry can have is a foundation of education that involves some kind of 'internship' in a real world practical setting.

But I don't know how to go about implementing such a change. I'm not knowledgable about these types of things. I'm lucky I live in a state where the opticians association is very active, and I'm not embarrassed to say I'm content with the small roll I play: I pay my dues, encourage other apprentice opticians to get a formal education, and do my job to the best of ability.

It might sound hypocrytical to not be willing to be part of a million optician march on the powers that be. I am not at a point in my life where I can help change things, I can only support in the smallest of ways. However I also chose to not live in states that don't have licensing.

Does that answer your question Diopterman? I don't think we are dead yet. But I don't have any answers other than the obvious as to how to change our predicament. How's that for an honest answer?

Thank you!

[Uilleann]

I would be highly interested to see what the results of truly independent testing would be in non-licensed states, using some of the test questions stated earlier. As far as it's presented here, it raises far more questions than answers about the state of opticianry in licensed states. One thing this thread has highlighted, is that licensed states in particular have as huge problem with homogeneity across their optical ranks as anyone, and that even licensure doesn't offer any sort of proof of basic knowledge, skill or working ability across state lines. So the ball comes back to the court of the only national litmus for dispensing in the US - the ABO. And that, we all agree, is a sad thing.

As it stands today, degrees in "optics" would be best served if you are able to work in the R&D labs of a major lens manufacturer or a chemical company. You'll have a far better chance at a decent salary. Apart from that, if you're one of the lucky few, and can find that one in a thousand ritzy shop somewhere with the right clientele and an opening, you may do alright dispensing. But that is not the reality for the vast majority of dispensers - nor will it become so with any amount of education.

Dead is dead.

[Judy Canty]

Dead is dead.

Then why are you still dispensing? Shouldn't you be learning to do something else...anything else?

[LandLord]

This is opticianry...

[LandLord]

and this is optometry...

[Uilleann]

Then why are you still dispensing? Shouldn't you be learning to do something else...anything else?

Who cares what I do. :)

Seriously - I'm just fine thanks.

[Judy Canty]

I was just curious. You don't seem to be particularly happy with your work. Because you don't see any value in education for Opticians, it has no value to anyone else. You don't see a future as an Optcian, so no one else has a future in the profession either.

I'm hazarding a guess that you're young enough to make a career change, so I'm asking you why not make that change?

[Uilleann]

I was just curious. You don't seem to be particularly happy with your work. Because you don't see any value in education for Opticians, it has no value to anyone else. You don't see a future as an Optcian, so no one else has a future in the profession either.

I'm hazarding a guess that you're young enough to make a career change, so I'm asking you why not make that change?

This has to win the award for the MOST ABSURD thing I've read all summer long!

Nowhere have I ever said I was unhappy with my work. Never.

Nowhere have I ever said I saw no value in education of opticians, past or present. But a two-four year degree to dispense is insane beyond words.

Education can have immense value - but not at the levels suggested by some here for this trade.

Obviously there is a future - but it will be very different from what it has been in decades past. requiring years upon years of education won't change it...unless of course you work for a school. At least you can then reap the rewards of greater enrollment.

[optilady1]

This has to win the award for the MOST ABSURD thing I've read all summer long!

Nowhere have I ever said I was unhappy with my work. Never.

Nowhere have I ever said I saw no value in education of opticians, past or present. But a two-four year degree to dispense is insane beyond words.

Education can have immense value - but not at the levels suggested by some here for this trade.

Obviously there is a future - but it will be very different from what it has been in decades past. requiring years upon years of education won't change it...unless of course you work for a school. At least you can then reap the rewards of greater enrollment.

You might not say you are unhappy, but your tone says misery.

[LandLord]

If you're happy and you know it clap your hands...

[Uilleann]

You might not say you are unhappy, but your tone says misery.

Ok Mrs Freud.

I must admit complete amazement that you are capable of deducing so much from the internet. Most people have extreme difficulty with what you just managed. Here I thought I was actually quite happy in my work, thrilled to be working with the group of doctors I get to see every day, excited that we all have an exceptionally close working relationship which extends to the amazing pow in the colder months, and a utterly and completely awesome wife and kiddos at home, along with two of the coolest chocolate labs you could ever hope to meet!

But perhaps you assumed, because I haven't partaken in the mandatory degree for all opticians Kool-Aid that I'm miserable. If it helps to make you feel better, that's certainly your own prerogative. :)

[LandLord]

boo

[Chris Ryser]

This has turned into a real ugly thread,with insults flying up and down. Of course nobody can deny that education in any field is of benefit to the ones that have it and or are looking for it.

In my days it was the dream of everyoptician who finished a 3 year apprenticeship, and had a better education than they get these days in manual and theoretic optics, to go to an optics school.

Today's problem is not education, itis the economic situation that is not getting better, but is worsening.Furthermore the large corporations have taken the lead in this industry, notonly in products but also in in retail sales. Within the largest chains you can buy OTC glasses on the general floor or if you choose in the optical department somewhere along the wall.

In the optical field the major optical corporations control the majority of the wholesale labs and therefore to a certain level also the retail pricing.
These same corporations are also backing, supporting or even owning the on-line optical companies that are growing at rapid speeds fired by the economy sliding into a new recession.

[Johns]

This has turned into a real ugly thread,with insults flying up and down.

I don't think that this thread is any uglier than any other 12+ page thread. My rule of thumb for appropriateness is whether or not I would say the same thing if I was sitting down and having a conversation with the person.

There's nothing ugly about a spirited exchange between passionate people with differing views. Actually, it's a thing of beauty!

You've got to have a thick skin to be in this business anyway.

[kelanor]

I think that the scope of opticianry has to change in order for our value to be recognized.

The ability to craft and fit a pair of well made eyewear is not the only skill that makes us stand out, not to our patients, not to our employers, and especially not to the general public.

We need to do MORE.

I see opticianry moving to a more multifaceted field. We need to be a lot more flexible about what we are willing to focus our energies on. Expand into tech roles, vision therapy, or better business skills. Something that sets us apart from frame stylists, in the eyes of the rest of the world.

[Uilleann]

I think that the scope of opticianry has to change in order for our value to be recognized.

The ability to craft and fit a pair of well made eyewear is not the only skill that makes us stand out, not to our patients, not to our employers, and especially not to the general public.

We need to do MORE.

I see opticianry moving to a more multifaceted field. We need to be a lot more flexible about what we are willing to focus our energies on. Expand into tech roles, vision therapy, or better business skills. Something that sets us apart from frame stylists, in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Except that these careers already exist. If you want to tech, get your COA/COT. You won't make much however. If you want to practice vision therapy, get your therapy license. You'll make more possibly, if you are able to maintain full books, and your patients can/will pay. If you want to go into business, then do it. Get your bus. admin degree and see where you want to go - the money isn't in dispensing.

The fact is, that the public is constantly looking for ways to give you LESS compensation for the skills we offer, not more. More education in their eyes doesn't factor in. If you really want to make a more consistent paycheck, and want to demand more clout in the public eye then do the time and the class work and finish your optometry schooling. Simple.