Online purchase gone awry.

[Jana Lewis]

Over the weekend we had a young lady present to our optical a frame she purchased online that she needed her rx put in.

My whippersnapper took her measurements, cut her lenses basic SV -1.00 OU. Dispensed later in the day. She seemed happy.... until yesterday.

She came in complaining that the frames kept slipping down her nose and didn't feel secure. I took a look at them. This frame is WAAAAY too big for this little gal. I decide that I might be able to manipulate them into a somewhat decent fit. No go. These frames are plastic made in china the temples have no metal in them at all. You can hardly bend them at all.They are simply TOO BIG.

After I explained to her that her frame choice was no good she wanted her money back. I could have just given her money back, washed my hands of this and be done with it. I just could not do it... on principle. I explained that the lenses were customized for her in that frame with her rx and measurements. I explained that this was the danger of buying online. You cannot try it on, you have no professional there to tell you if the fit is proper if your RX will work well in the frame... I could go on.

After this whole fiasco, I have decided that I will no longer accept frames purchased online for lenses. I will make it a point to ask every patient where they purchased their frames.

This may affect me, it may not. I do know one thing for sure, I will not have anymore headaches. That's worth it!

[ThatOneGuy]

Over the weekend we had a young lady present to our optical a frame she purchased online that she needed her rx put in.

My whippersnapper took her measurements, cut her lenses basic SV -1.00 OU. Dispensed later in the day. She seemed happy.... until yesterday.

She came in complaining that the frames kept slipping down her nose and didn't feel secure. I took a look at them. This frame is WAAAAY too big for this little gal. I decide that I might be able to manipulate them into a somewhat decent fit. No go. These frames are plastic made in china the temples have no metal in them at all. You can hardly bend them at all.They are simply TOO BIG.

After I explained to her that her frame choice was no good she wanted her money back. I could have just given her money back, washed my hands of this and be done with it. I just could not do it... on principle. I explained that the lenses were customized for her in that frame with her rx and measurements. I explained that this was the danger of buying online. You cannot try it on, you have no professional there to tell you if the fit is proper if your RX will work well in the frame... I could go on.

After this whole fiasco, I have decided that I will no longer accept frames purchased online for lenses. I will make it a point to ask every patient where they purchased their frames.

This may affect me, it may not. I do know one thing for sure, I will not have anymore headaches. That's worth it!

I've chosen to just make it abundantly clear that the patient will need to see the person they got the frame from if they have any problems with the frame. I let them know if I think the lenses aren't going to turn out right, and if applicable, I also let them know I could break the frame during adjustment or lens insertion in which case I possibly can't repair/replace the frame, and they would have to buy another pair of lenses and frame. Though I'm not a shady person, I realize that some patients see that as self serving, and so it is up to them to decide if they want to buy the lenses from me or not. If not, no harm, no foul. If they do, I'll try my best to serve them my best.

[drk]

I understand. What about POF?

[Jana Lewis]

I understand. What about POF?

Good question.

Currently we inspect every POF to make sure that we can fill it. We do alot of vintage here so we are used to turning down people if their frame is not up to par. Typically, when a POF comes in it's a frame the patient has worn before... you kinda know that frame has worked for them already.

You have a great point, I am not sure how I am going to handle "new" POF's. Hmmm. I need to re-think this now. Damn you DRK! :P

[Golfnorth]

I think your whippersnapper should have asked to see the frame on her before completing the transaction and advise her of the frame's suitability before going ahead.

Regards,
Golfnorth

[conantoptics]

I think your whippersnapper should have asked to see the frame on her before completing the transaction and advise her of the frame's suitability before going ahead.

Regards,
Golfnorth

I think maybe they should, but they dont have to, check before they complete the job.
In our LAB, we do some glazing jobs for clients, who send their frames to us, and they adjust the frame when give it to patients.

[Chris Ryser]

I think your whippersnapper should have asked to see the frame on her before completing the transaction and advise her of the frame's suitability before going ahead.

That would have been the proper procedure..............and could have even resulted in the sale of a frame.

Furthermore the whole affair could have been saved by saying I will use the lenses if you buy a frame that suits you and fits you and you return the big one to the on line seller. Would have been one winning case.

[drk]

Jana: I was hoping you'd have the answer!

Golfy: Yes, one thing for sure is that we have to provide the service of inspecting the POF for damage, fit, suitability, etc.

What I'm thinking through is this:

1. I'm dead against unregulated Rx lens work. No compromise.

2. I'm not sure what our legal objection is to onliners selling frames. Obviously, frame selection is critical to overall success, but I'm feeling like a patient purchasing a frame online, while not wise, is not illegal.

3. Patients have a right to use their old frames, or frames purchased elsewhere.

4. We are responsible for determining whether a frame is appropriate.

5. We cannot be held liable for patient's old or new frames from breaking.


So, what does that add up to?




I think every time we use a patient's old or new frame, we have to provide a professional service:

• inspect frame for Rx suitability
• inspect frame for fit
• inspect frame for damage
• obtain waiver (yet still financial risk remains)
• perhaps incur pattern fee expense
• adjust at dispense
• very likely service frame for lifetime (maybe even free nosepads, etc, if you aren't charging)

That costs someone money.

While the original seller of the frame perhaps included a lifetime of professional services, is that transferable? If it was a professional courtesy from one optician to the next, then I'd say it all works out.

But if the frame is purchased without professional services included (online), then that needs paid for.

Nonetheless, we can't go around discriminating: "Hey, did you buy these online? Then you're paying a frame fee". "Oh, you got those at St. Cloud Opticians? No fee."

What would make sense is if all frames were sold separate from professional fees, and the patient paid for a global service (styling through lifetime service) which is non-transferable. I don't think we're ready for that, though.

In the interim, I think if any patient wants to use their old/new frame (not from your optical), they need some kind of charge. Maybe only $25, but something. We just can not "throw it in with lens purchase".

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Jana: I was hoping you'd have the answer!

Golfy: Yes, one thing for sure is that we have to provide the service of inspecting the POF for damage, fit, suitability, etc.

What I'm thinking through is this:

1. I'm dead against unregulated Rx lens work. No compromise.

2. I'm not sure what our legal objection is to onliners selling frames. Obviously, frame selection is critical to overall success, but I'm feeling like a patient purchasing a frame online, while not wise, is not illegal.

3. Patients have a right to use their old frames, or frames purchased elsewhere.

4. We are responsible for determining whether a frame is appropriate.

5. We cannot be held liable for patient's old or new frames from breaking.


So, what does that add up to?


I think every time we use a patient's old or new frame, we have to provide a professional service:

• inspect frame for Rx suitability
• inspect frame for fit
• inspect frame for damage
• obtain waiver (yet still financial risk remains)
• perhaps incur pattern fee expense
• adjust at dispense
• very likely service frame for lifetime (maybe even free nosepads, etc, if you aren't charging)

That costs money.

While the original seller of the frame perhaps included a lifetime of professional services, is that transferable? If it was a professional courtesy from one optician to the next, then I'd say it all works out.

But if the frame is purchased without professional services included (online), then that needs paid for.

Nonetheless, we can't go around discriminating: "Hey, did you buy these online? Then you're paying a frame fee". "Oh, you got those at St. Cloud Opticians? No fee."

What would make sense is if all frames were sold separate from professional fees, and the patient paid for a global service (styling through lifetime service) which is non-transferable. I don't think we're ready for that, though.

In the interim, I think if any patient wants to use their old/new frame (not from your optical), they need some kind of charge. Maybe only $20, but something. We just can not "throw it in with lens purchase".

Good post, Dr.

In our office, we have them sign a frame waiver that states we are not responsible if any breakages occur and there is no frame warranty rendered. We also have "pattern fees" for metal/zyl, grooved and drilled.

I have had a lot of patients lately ask if they can use an old frame. I always say absolutely, however, I have to inspect it for any damage, make sure it still fits and we also have a frame waiver that you sign. It all goes back to educating the patient that using a 54 year old frame probably is not the best choice.

[uncut]

That would have been the proper procedure..............and could have even resulted in the sale of a frame.

Furthermore the whole affair could have been saved by saying I will use the lenses if you buy a frame that suits you and fits you and you return the big one to the on line seller. Would have been one winning case.

I agree with Golfnorth and Chris on this one......any frame, new or used should be scruitinzed for suitablility in the usual manner before any lenses are produced.