I need my PD taken

[Barry Santini]

Interesting discussion of "liability." As far as I can see, the liability amounts to ensuring that the eyewear is conforms within ANSI specs. And last time I looked, it is an issue of "unprescribed" prism. And when the prism tolerance is exceeded, then the 2.5mm total PD rule applies.

Today, a 2.5mm range will, IMHO, encompass just about *anyone's* ESTIMATE of their "PD". (This statement is why I cannot appreciate high fees for PD measurements).

Besides, with the history re OTCs, they'll need to "show the bodies" before any *actual* liability is logically assessed.

B

[Robert Martellaro]

Yes, this situation is dilemmic! I certainly may be part *enabler*. But I see this as also keeping peace with my referral source, which condeming me conveniently overlooks.

B

Barry- I would talk to the office manager or doctor, suggesting that they refrain from the above. While your at it, maybe you could suggest that they stamp their Rxs with a disclaimer concerning filling the Rx with licensed opticians. I'm sure that neither one of you have time to diagnose optical errors from folks who buy from schlock optical merchants.

[Now I See]

I've been declining to provide PD's/measurements because of liability issures, because our state had similar rules to Curiouscat's state. I'm seeing some question regarding liability...part of the potential problem/liability is that if there is a problem and the state board gets involved, then my license is potentially in jeopardy. That's enough of a liability for me. No license for some of us = no work in this field = 1 sad, broke Optician.

Recently our state has changed some rules, one includes PD's/measurments. 21 NCAC 40.0202 section E.1. "E-businesses shall, as a part of the order process, inform the customer regarding the importance of fitting/final adjustment after receipt of prescription eyewear, and inform the customer as to the importance of their follow-up with an eyecare practitioner for the final adjustment. The order process shall require customer acknowledgement of the information, and a statement that if the customer does not follow-up with an eyecare practitioner, no practitioner shall be held responsible for any damagers or injury resulting from the customer's failure to follow-up." As with most rules, it seems, they tend to have room for interpretation...I'm trying to be optimistic, but I do wonder how they are going to regulate such a rule.

[drk]

Barry- I would talk to the office manager or doctor, suggesting that they refrain from the above. While your at it, maybe you could suggest that they stamp their Rxs with a disclaimer concerning filling the Rx with licensed opticians. I'm sure that neither one of you have time to diagnose optical errors from folks who buy from schlock optical merchants.

+1000

"We advise this prescription be filled by a licensed professional, only" goes on all my CL and Sp Rxs.

[drk]

I do wonder how they are going to regulate such a rule.

Simple. Make law enforcement pay for itself. $1000 penalty per occurrence.

[Barry Santini]

Barry- I would talk to the office manager or doctor, suggesting that they refrain from the above. While your at it, maybe you could suggest that they stamp their Rxs with a disclaimer concerning filling the Rx with licensed opticians. I'm sure that neither one of you have time to diagnose optical errors from folks who buy from schlock optical merchants.

So maybe, if I do this, they'll refer this person *ive never seen before* to another, more cooperatively-minded ECP in my area. Although I don't see that I'm married to the fee I've stated, I see no reason *not* to provide this service under *these* circumstances. Of Course, adjustments, heights, and the rest will incur extra charges.

It's what "al la carte" is all about. BTW, I'm a slow learner, as drk will concede. I'm always of a mind to see where the road leads, rather than pre-judge. If I make a mis-judegment, I'll change and adapt.

Besides, I sherlock eyewear not purchased at my business all the time. And gain new clients as a result. They trust must skills, and these are opportunities to demonstrate them. I see online as no different in this repsect.

Barry

[NCspecs]

We charge, but not until I give my opinion on why it's a dumb idea to DYI on a medical device. I usually say, "Well, that seems like poor judgement." and leave it at that. Normally the pt will go quiet for a few moments and then ask me to price them out for a pair of glasses in my office. I'll also tell them that I wish to be responsible for my own measurements and when I make a pair of glasses I am the only person held accountable for any errors. If they have their glasses made by Crazy Bob's Online Emporium then they are S.O.L. when there is a mistake made. All I can give Crazy Bob is a number. The Online retailer doesn't have the privilege of my knowledge or work ethic.

Funny, after all that, they buy glasses from me. Yes we charge but I've never actually "sold" anyone a PD.

[Robert Martellaro]

Besides, I sherlock eyewear not purchased at my business all the time. And gain new clients as a result. They trust must skills, and these are opportunities to demonstrate them.

Ditto.

I see online as no different in this repsect.

Barry

IMO, let the folks making an endrun around service and quality learn the hard way. They won't listen to us anyways, right? So they'll get burned, and then, and only then, realize that in some things, the old school way of professional and personalized service is the only way that works.

[drk]

Absolutely right.

Now, what position do you want to be in when the patient returns disgruntled? Above the fray, or dirtied by participation?

[Barry Santini]

I agree with both Robert M and the illustrious drk. But I *still* stand by the view that *my* measurements are at least as good as any others, taken by competant ECPs. But probably no better. In the end, I am responsible for only eyewear totally vetted by me. And I think I'm up to challenges from any quarter to the contrary.

B

[optowalt]

why would I provide a pd for any price so another place can make a sale. If they can't provide the complete service, not my prob. Besides, I live in Jersey and if there is any problem, I will get in trouble no matter what. I had an OD friend stop co-managing lasick because her husband reminded her if there is a prob she will get pulled into any actions also. Even if she walks away, her reputation will be harmed. It' just not worth it to help someone on the internet to make a sale.

[chip anderson]

Here's a ruler, there's a mirror. Have fun.

[drk]

Chip that's hilarious.

[ThatOneGuy]

I hear a lot of folks saying not to give the PD due to liability when something goes wrong. What I don't hear anyone acknowledging directly is that online sales are successfully satisfying the customers they are serving (i.e. as was stated earlier: "not our patients").

Online sales (to my knowledge) do not offer free-form lenses. This, to me, seems like a great lead in to educate patients on how your prices aren't higher than online simply because you have a B&M business, or because you are God's gift to Opticianry, or because you are forced to pay more by the big bad boogie lab. The truth is, you (patient) are paying more because I offer cutting edge state of the art lens technology that creates a never before existed product specifically designed to meet your visual needs based on your individual prescription, etc., etc. Additionally, in these tough economic times, the lenses that you purchase from me not only help you experience better vision, but are also produced in our state by people who live in our state.

The patient comes asking "will you give me my PD?" The patient leaves saying "These people know their stuff, I've supported my community, and I have a great pair of glasses that are backed by great service and a warranty."

[jediron1]

I'd be happy to take their measurements and provide prescription verification, as well as the first frame adjustment for a sixty five dollar fee. Maybe more if the sign has changed in my car mechanic's shop. Fee for service. It's what we all should be doing.

I agree! Charge the fee and tell them this includes the above. I wouldn't put my license on the line ( no pun intended ). What if they go to state and say Jedi took the measurements and I can't see. So i would be very careful on what you give out.
:)

[chip anderson]

Look if ophthalmologist can get patient's to sign thier eye away before doing refractive surgery. We shurely can get people to sign something releasing us from liablility (at least on paper) on glasses made by another dispenser.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Here's a ruler, there's a mirror. Have fun.

There's an app for that :p :bbg:

[DragonLensmanWV]

What are you going to do if someone takes it just a step further?
"Can you measure my PD? I'm going to the shop down the street, but I hear you're a better Optician."

[Robert Martellaro]

I agree with both Robert M and the illustrious drk. But I *still* stand by the view that *my* measurements are at least as good as any others, taken by competant ECPs. But probably no better. In the end, I am responsible for only eyewear totally vetted by me. And I think I'm up to challenges from any quarter to the contrary.

B

Barry- I don't mean to question your skills and knowledge, which are beyond reproach. I'm just thinking that doing PD work might not be the best place to hang your hat.

[Barry Santini]

Barry- I don't mean to question your skills and knowledge, which are beyond reproach. I'm just thinking that doing PD work might not be the best place to hang your hat.

Agreed, and no offence ever taken, Robert!

Barry

[jediron1]

Barry- I don't mean to question your skills and knowledge, which are beyond reproach. I'm just thinking that doing PD work might not be the best place to hang your hat.

I agree with Barry. In NY State you must be very careful on the measurements you take and as a judge once said " document, document and document more, you can't have too much documentation " then he ruled against the optician because as i said: "you didn't document that you told them they could get poly and that was a safer lens, even though I believe you said it it was never written down". True story happened in upstate NY.

[Mizikal]

Why not just offer to sell them a pupilometer?

"Sorry but I cannot provide a pd measurement for our competitors. I can sell you the device needed to measure your own. It is just $200.00. I know its a lot of money but think of how much you will be able to save when you buy your glasses for .25 cents online."


You can then sell them all the tools they may need to adjust.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Why not just offer to sell them a pupilometer?

"Sorry but I cannot provide a pd measurement for our competitors. I can sell you the device needed to measure your own. It is just $200.00. I know its a lot of money but think of how much you will be able to save when you buy your glasses for .25 cents online."


You can then sell them all the tools they may need to adjust.

$200?? I'd tell them $500 then say "Well since you just spent as much as you would have on a pair of glasses, just to get a measurement, you may now purchase your $2.50 glasses online! Have at it!" :bbg:

[hcjilson]

Recently our state has changed some rules, one includes PD's/measurments. 21 NCAC 40.0202 section E.1. "E-businesses shall, as a part of the order process, inform the customer regarding the importance of fitting/final adjustment after receipt of prescription eyewear, and inform the customer as to the importance of their follow-up with an eyecare practitioner for the final adjustment. The order process shall require customer acknowledgement of the information, and a statement that if the customer does not follow-up with an eyecare practitioner, no practitioner shall be held responsible for any damagers or injury resulting from the customer's failure to follow-up." As with most rules, it seems, they tend to have room for interpretation...I'm trying to be optimistic, but I do wonder how they are going to regulate such a rule.

To quote the Bard, "Therein Lies the Rub". Unfortunately, no state can regulate what goes on in another state! Your state can pass regulations, but they can only apply to individuals or entities within that state, not outside it. Even if they could, checking compliance would be virtually impossible. Most states lack the resources to adequately check compliance with practitioners, much less their suppliers.

I think the answer to this problem will lie in consumer education rather than regulatory power. Your state society would be a good resource for this effort.The internet is here to stay folks, best we learn to live with it and not fight it.

[kat]

I havn't had anyone come in to ask for a PD, yet.......If I do get someone, I won't.