I need my PD taken

**Wes** · 03-10-2011, 11:18 AM

So you can make a small fortune in the optical lab business, but it takes a large fortune to get started... How much smaller of a fortune might it be on discounted cheapie internut glasses?

**DragonLensmanWV** · 03-10-2011, 02:24 PM

Our write-up forms for glasses has three copies-one for the customer that is their receipt, one for the lab tray, and a hard copy for the main files. What we do now is measure their PD, and write it only on our hard copy, their copy has all the Rx, frame info and everything but the PD.

**Michael Walach** · 03-10-2011, 02:24 PM

"It's not a question of technology, Michael. Technology smechnology, there is little technology involved in taking a p.d. or a fitting height."

Well, check some of the AUTOMATED PATIENT MEASURING SYSTEMS, DIGITAL MEASURING SYSTEMS or PHOTO DISPENSOMETERS, what ever you want to call it; you will find that technology just might beat the P.D. stick or pupilometer even in the hands of the professional optician. Particularly, when it comes to fully personalized patient adjusted power lenses where panto, wrap angle, and vertex are all required measurements in order to realize optimum visual performance.

"It's about professional oversight. It's about making sure people know what they're doing. It's about quality control. It's about accountability. It's about qualifications. It's about reliability. It's about trust."

No one is suggesting that the requirements for e-commerce Rx business is lack of professionalism,having no idea what you are doing, lack of quality control, accountability, qualifications, etc. It is more about realizing new reality, accepting it as a fact of life and adjusting our modum operendi rather than fighting it. Opticians will have to adjust their professional services offer to new market demands and opportunities they present, just like Barry Santini is suggesting, find new creative ways how to market their skills and realize new lucrative revenues for their practices. Do you think for a moment that the "giants" in the eye care business in the US and abroad are ignoring the e-commerce trends in their strategic planing at this moment as we are contemplating "who owns the P.D.". I suggest you check some of the Google statistics; today around 150,000 people will buy Rx eyeglasses online and big majority of them are going to be satisfied with their purchase.

**Barry Santini** · 03-10-2011, 02:49 PM

I now take the pupillary measurement three ways:

1. I hold the instrument - taken monocularly (alternate occlusion)
2. The client holds the instrument - taken monocularly (alternate occlusion)
3. The client holds the instrument - taken monocularly (alternate occlusion)

Then...I average and determine the target PD I will fabricate to (& calculate for wraps from).

This means some values are recorded and blocked to 0.1mm values. It's not more accurate. It's just a better target than one measurement, taken one time by one device.

I also feel that horizontal precision is only really important in progressive centration...particularly with wrap progressives, or higher add powers.

FWIW

BTW, there's a survey I have of digital centration devices, done in the UK, that concluded that all digital centration heights should be verified manually.

??????????

B

**uncut** · 03-10-2011, 02:57 PM

Digital automated haircuts, anyone? @ Michael W....I'd like the devices you mention actually fit/dispense as measured.

**optical24/7** · 03-10-2011, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Walach

" ...... I suggest you check some of the Google statistics; today around 150,000 people will buy Rx eyeglasses online and big majority of them are going to be satisfied with their purchase.

Michael, I can't find backup to these numbers on Google. Everything I've found says that 1-2% of Rx eyeglasses are bought online. at 150,000 a day, and using a generous 2% of total market means 7,500,000 eye glasses are purchased daily...I doubt that number is correct.

**Michael Walach** · 03-10-2011, 05:57 PM

Upla, my apology, 150,000 per month; about 5,000 to 6,000 per day.

**Michael Walach** · 03-10-2011, 06:15 PM

Not yet, but be careful what you wish for.This is the part that opticians are trained for and can do it for a professional fee, consult and advise for professional fee. Professionals render their services for a fee, entertainers entertain for a fee, merchants buy and sell for profit; that what keeps the world go around.

**kcount** · 03-10-2011, 06:24 PM

Just had my first huffy patient about the PD. Non-Client was here with here Grandchildren and daughter who are patients and have a history of purchases. She pipes up and askes me to take the PD. I explain I would be happy to, and there is a fee. She gets huffy and states I should do it for free since her family comes in. I just smiled and noted I could do this as a fee for service. Needless to say I never took the measurement.

Simple rules folks! This is a business not a hoby!

**Michael Walach** · 03-10-2011, 06:28 PM

"Digital automated haircuts, anyone? @ Michael W....I'd like the devices you mention actually fit/dispense as measured."

Not yet, but be careful what you wish for.This is the part that opticians are trained for and can do it for a professional fee, consult and advise for professional fee. Professionals render their services for a fee, entertainers entertain for a fee, merchants buy and sell for profit; that what keeps the world go around.

Pertaining to digital automated haircuts I wouldn't know about it; I have opted out of those professional services about 30 years ago for few reasons: first, thanks to technological advancements in electric razors I can do it myself, second, there is not much hair left anyway, and third, I gave up to work on my good looks and decided to work on my personality instead. Time will tell...

**Barry Santini** · 03-10-2011, 08:31 PM

K:

With a family of *your* clients in tow, I might have acceeded and done this on the house, as a courtesy.

Hard to say....

B

**uncut** · 03-10-2011, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by kcount

Just had my first huffy patient about the PD. Non-Client was here with here Grandchildren and daughter who are patients and have a history of purchases. She pipes up and askes me to take the PD. I explain I would be happy to, and there is a fee. She gets huffy and states I should do it for free since her family comes in. I just smiled and noted I could do this as a fee for service. Needless to say I never took the measurement.

Simple rules folks! This is a business not a hoby!

Well done, KC. Doing so would be sanctioning and enabling, both a distasteful and unprofessional contribution.

**keithbenjamin** · 03-10-2011, 09:19 PM

Jeez, people! If I had half as much confidence in my value proposition and in the belief that online opticals are bad for the consumer as many of you do, I'd put a neon freakin' sign out front that screams "FREE PD MEASUREMENTS HERE! >>>"
When a customer walks in looking for a PD, I'd only ask they first be willing to talk with me about their eyewear needs before I took the measurement. Like shooting fish in a barrel, right? If not, perhaps your horse isn't quite so high and maybe you want to rethink your value proposition or the package in which it is delivered.

I'm with Chris and Barry; how can a customer walking into your store with an immediate need for eyewear ever be a bad thing, even if they've already decided they would be better off buying their eyewear somewhere else? Possible answers: A. You don't need the business. B. Selling is beneath you. C. They happen to be right.

There are any number of ways this could be turned into an opportunity. However, I would think of using it (in conjunction with an entire approach to business) in ways to 'wow' people, to take people by surprise and get them talking about you, to generate referrals and word-of-mouth, to engender trust and potential future business, instead of ways to generate a quick $20. Of course this only works, if your business is centered around a remarkable customer experience and obviously won't work if you've already concluded PD-seekers are cheap, stupid users, instead of real people with wants and needs that you have the ability to help.

For those interested, I highly recommend the following books relevant books. They might just inspire you to rethink the prevalent attitudes in optical and maybe even help turn perceived banes into golden opportunities (and no, none of this implies you should start selling eyewear online).

The Referral Engine - John Jantsch
Purple Cow - Seth Godin
Linchpin - Seth Godin
Free: The Future of a Radical Price - Chris Andersen

**Barry Santini** · 03-10-2011, 10:17 PM

+1 Keith!

**uncut** · 03-10-2011, 10:27 PM

Sorry, keithbenjamin....Great Beer by the way..........but your reading list consists of wannabees, and reflecting upon the current state of your economy, their advice is....irrelevant and outdated.

I've survived 2.5 recessions, more than I can say for a looooong list of competitors, and well meaning pudits and peers.

-1

**keithbenjamin** · 03-10-2011, 11:11 PM

Interesting opinion, Uncut. Have you read any of these books? At what point did you discover that customer service, personal relationships, word-of-mouth, and exceeding expectations had become outdated, irrelevant concepts in business?

Reflecting upon the state of my economy (and my industry), I've concluded these ideas are more critical than ever.

Since we are considering books published within the last year outdated (Linchpin and Referral Engine) let me add a truly outdated tome to the very top of the list.

How to Win Friends and Influence People (1936) - Dale Carnegie

Some ideas are timeless.

-Keith

**Michael Walach** · 03-11-2011, 01:53 PM

Barry, you should be sitting on the top of the mountain; fresh to hear the wisdom!

**hcjilson** · 03-11-2011, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by keithbenjamin

Interesting opinion, Uncut. Have you read any of these books? At what point did you discover that customer service, personal relationships, word-of-mouth, and exceeding expectations had become outdated, irrelevant concepts in business?

Reflecting upon the state of my economy (and my industry), I've concluded these ideas are more critical than ever.

Since we are considering books published within the last year outdated (Linchpin and Referral Engine) let me add a truly outdated tome to the very top of the list.

How to Win Friends and Influence People (1936) - Dale Carnegie

Some ideas are timeless.

-Keith

Speaking of wisdom, there is more than a little wisdom in Keith's suggestion.!