How do you respond?

[NeGlassesGirl27]

As I read the question, it isn't about being an Optician (I know that's what you want it to be about) but more about sales tactics. I *AM* sorry if you took away from comments that I was denigrating your work ethics, far from it. I was questioning why you would waste time (which I repeated at least 3-4 times) on some who is obviously NOT INTERESTED in buying new eyeglasses.

Does being an optician give you the "right" to abuse politeness and civility and try to sell someone something they don't want? If so, I'm glad I'm NOT an optician. I wouldn't want to be if those are the rules. I wouldn't work for anyone who forced me to behave like that. I'd much rather flip burgers than what you do.

You're something else.

I am going to stop posting about this to you because you're clearly not understanding. The subject isn't about how I operate, which you have made it into. This is about how one would react in this particular situation, I commented on what I WOULD do. I do not need you badgering me, questioning if I am "wasting time" or the other crap you have spewed out that I am doing. As Jana said, you have NO idea how I operate as you jumped to conclusions and you're down right rude sometimes.

I'd say from now on, until you become and Optician, your opinions are not valid to me. Please, stick to grinding glass lenses and I'll stick to being a Certified Optician. Believe me, I am not the only person you have done this to. As I stated before, I am Italian, I am bull-headed and stubborn. One thing that REALLY grinds my gears is someone not respecting me and how I work, I am not going to stand for you questioning me. I will gladly keep posting on this topic, as long as it has to do with the subject at hand but I believe you and I are done with this situation.

[Wes]

Mike, you might want to put the other picture back up. You're being evil incarnate again.

Or you could be this guy:

[Now I See]

Will everyone else who does NOT WORK WITH A DOCTOR join in and give the OP your unsolicited commentary...

WOW...I read this thread soon after the OP posted it, then got busy and didn't get a chance to respond...now it looks like a big mess???

So, to the OP, FWIW...I do not have a doc on site, so when people come in, they are pretty ready to buy. However, I do get shoppers that don't want to buy "today" for whatever reason. I usually tell them that I think that they are smart for taking the inititive to shop first before making a final decision. I offer to help them find a frame, if they tell me that they have something specific in mind. If not, I tell them to feel free to set their bags down (coats off, whatever...) and look around, and let me know if I can help with opinions/color options, etc., and when they find something they like, set it off the the side and I'll be glad to write the information down so that we'll know which frames to start with when they return. I guess for me, the general idea is to make them feel comfortable. I have found that people respond better to me when they feel in control of their own shopping experience, they open up and talk more about what they want from their eyeglasses, and that gives me the oportunity to tell them what's available. I've had plenty of people NOT buy from me, but they still stop by to say hello...or better yet, they recommend a friend who DOES buy! :)

As I re-read what I've written, I realize it sounds hokey...but this is usually what I do in some related fashion. It's what works for me. I guess, what I'm trying to say is, do what makes you feel comfortable, try to think of the last time you shopped for anything, and how you felt when you either got "Sally*-could-care-less" salesperson or the "Cedric*-you-will-buy-and-you-will-like-it" salesperson....don't be either of those, and you'll be fine! ;)

*Names used in this post are purely fictional, and do not necessarily represent any person with the names Sally or Cedric* :bbg:

[NeGlassesGirl27]

Mike, you might want to put the other picture back up. You're being evil incarnate again.

Or you could be this guy:

Well if I would have known you were going to do that, I would have used "gopher" instead of "badger" because I like Minnesota Gophers more than Wisconsin Badgers but somehow..that wouldn't have worked in this situation :bbg: :bbg: Actually, I am obviously a Huskers fan in football but Minnesota fan in hockey ;)

[cocoisland58]

The Dr. hands a patient off to you, you greet them and introduce yourself and before you get a chance to look at their paperwork, they state firmly "I'm not going to get glasses at this time".

In my opinion if the patient comes out of the exam room and does not even want to talk about new glasses then the doctor was not doing a very good job in there. I have worked for docs who hand me the chart and say "No change, he's keeping his glasses" and those who hand me the chart and say "I talked to Mr. S about progressives or a second pair or sunglasses or AR or Transitions or Hi Index". You can imagine which office got bettter sales. It all starts in the chair.

That being said my response to someone who insists they do not want glasses is to have them sit with me while I input their Rx and exam info. This gives me time to chat with them, see what they like to do with their time, talk about new products, their insurance coverage or our special doscounts, etc. Then they get their Rx, my business card and I tell them I'll be here when they need me.

[MarySue]

It's nice to see the debate about legalities of handing over scripts - but the original question was simply, "what do you say when the patient tells you they don't want glasses at this time? (paraphrased).

I'm wondering if the need to say something is based on "sales driven employers" or "companies" OR if it is concern for the consumer, who may wander into a situation where they are purchasing spectacles without qualified advice.

If it's the later - then I'd simply be upfront and tell them I was concerned, and that when they were ready to purchase, to call me for some free advice, ideas on what to look for, and a few questions to ask anyone who may help them through the purchase.

Mike's right though - if someone says "no thanks" then its best not to be the "pushy" people from THAT firm. Your piece of the pie grows when you treat your clientele with respect and caring, and your team (owners included) have passion for the patient first, profit second.

[MikeAurelius]

What's your excuse?

LOL!

Shooting the messenger now? Is it not an abuse of politeness in a store environment not to respect what the customer tells you when he says "I am not buying anything today"? Is it not an abuse of civility in a store environment to keep trying to sell something the customer has told you he does not want?

Where does it end?

This could very well be one of the root reasons why opticians are not looked upon with favor by the general eyewear-wearing public.

I can tell you right now, if anyone working for me refused to take no for an answer, they'd be out looking for a new job that day.

How do YOU want to be treated by a salesperson? With respect and civility? Of course! Then why not turn around and treat your customers exactly the same way.

[MikeAurelius]

It's nice to see the debate about legalities of handing over scripts - but the original question was simply, "what do you say when the patient tells you they don't want glasses at this time? (paraphrased).

I'm wondering if the need to say something is based on "sales driven employers" or "companies" OR if it is concern for the consumer, who may wander into a situation where they are purchasing spectacles without qualified advice.

If it's the later - then I'd simply be upfront and tell them I was concerned, and that when they were ready to purchase, to call me for some free advice, ideas on what to look for, and a few questions to ask anyone who may help them through the purchase.

Mike's right though - if someone says "no thanks" then its best not to be the "pushy" people from THAT firm. Your piece of the pie grows when you treat your clientele with respect and caring, and your team (owners included) have passion for the patient first, profit second.

Thank you MarySue.

[MikeAurelius]

You're something else.

I am going to stop posting about this to you because you're clearly not understanding. The subject isn't about how I operate, which you have made it into. This is about how one would react in this particular situation, I commented on what I WOULD do. I do not need you badgering me, questioning if I am "wasting time" or the other crap you have spewed out that I am doing. As Jana said, you have NO idea how I operate as you jumped to conclusions and you're down right rude sometimes.

Okay... you commented on what you would do. Isn't that exactly the same thing as what you do do in that same situation? Or am I missing something in the logic of your dissention? I started by questioning your "would do", by stating that when the patient says no, he means no. I am confused though by your continued "I don't do that" but then by writing that it is what you WOULD do...

Do you begin to see where I'm coming from?

Being a certified optician has nothing to do with this, although I do respect that you are one. It is about basic salesmanship, and that's the point I'm trying to make here. It overrides EVERYTHING ELSE. Ignore the fact that it is a patient. Ignore the fact that you are selling eyeglasses. Pretend you are selling cell phones or stereo equipment. Is that the way YOU want to be treated by a salesperson? If so, then by all means, carry on!! But if not, then, look at what you are doing and how you are doing it (or in your case, what you WOULD/MAY be doing, if the situation ever occurs, whatever floats your boat).

That is the only point I've been trying to make in this discussion. Does the customer deserve to be treated like a human being and given common courtesy during the sales contact, or do you treat him like he is a captive and demand his attention? That's all I'm asking.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

First of all, you have blown this out of proportion and it's a little ridiculous. :angry:

Just because I go over someone's insurance doesn't make me the bad person here. I am doing MY JOB. I'm NOT a bump on a log like I suspect you would be if you were an Optician. Your accusations are absolutely absurd and you should probably stop while you're ahead. Your "hold the patient captive and demand their attention" statement is just ignorant. Again, when you become an Optician let me know and then we'll have an adult discussion without you accusing someone of "treating patients uncivilly".

As I said previously, if you have an issue with me educating a patient about options and insurance..you'll have to move along because I am not going to change how successful I have been being an Optician. Obviously, I am doing something right.

Maybe I should say for the 2390480213984780937397128921th time...how about we get back to the subject at hand. I'd LOVE to hear what other OPTICIANS have to say about how THEY would respond in the original situation. :idea:

Now, I have hockey on TV to watch so let's move along here..nothing to see..thank you.

[MikeAurelius]

I'm sorry you feel that way Keri, honestly. I'm a person who takes the written word at its face value (how can I do anything else as I can't see your face), and I go by what you've written here about what you would do. This is the first time you've stated talking about insurance, but does that really change anything?

As far as accusations and being ignorant, I respectfully decline to accept those labels. I am not ignorant, nor am I making any accusations. I am asking (sharply) pointed questions about what you said you would do under the circumstances.

I guess it comes down to this: for me, myself, when someone tells me they are not interested in purchasing anything at this time, I leave it at that. I hand them my business card and tell them to have a nice day, and go about the rest of my business. I do this all the time at trade shows and the like. I won't waste time on anyone who isn't interested in purchasing, there are plenty waiting who are interested.

Once again, it isn't about being an optician, it IS about the best way to handle a customer who has expressed a clear statement of not wanting to buy anything. If you want to discuss insurance, well, sure, but isn't that part of trying to sell them something?

[rep]

No sales conservation ever really starts without objections.

And the number one objection is: I don't want to buy anything right now.
It is the salesman's ( or saleswoman's) job to convince the person in a non pushy way that this is the time to purchase. This is usually done by asking probing questions.

If I had walked out the door every tme an account told they didn't want to buy anything right now - I would have lost 50% of my sales which were over 6 figures for 10 consecutive years It was my job to find out why they didn't want to buy right now and if I could overcome the specific objection as to why they didn't want to buy right now. Those sales reps who accepted objections don't make it very long in any industry. It's all about attitude and knowing how to deal with people.

I don't know any sales organization of any kind that does not teach that the sales dosen't begin until the customer says no. Its basic sales 101 and there is nothing unprofessional about it. Learning to deal with objections in a professional way is the mark of a true professioinal and can be done in a non threatening way. In those 10 years if anyone got angry because I asked questions, I smiled, thanked them for their time and called on all of their compeditors, never gracing their door again.

Rep

[hcjilson]

Haven't we learned anything from inflamed rhetoric in the past week?

PS I am happy to see Rep posting again. Where has he been?????

[Wes]

Do we ever?

[OHPNTZ]

Someone needs to create a positive spin to get this thread to work...

Convince Chip that glass lenses sold online are bad, convince Mike that castor oil doesnt work...and let them play in their own sandbox...

[Wes]

Someone needs to create a positive spin to get this thread to work...

Convince Chip that glass lenses sold online are bad, convince Mike that castor oil doesnt work...and let them play in their own sandbox...

Did you get those two backwards? I'm not sure what the castor oil thing is about (inside joke?), but I doubt Chip Anderson thinks glass lenses sold online are a good thing...

[MikeAurelius]

No sales conservation ever really starts without objections.

And the number one objection is: I don't want to buy anything right now.
It is the salesman's ( or saleswoman's) job to convince the person in a non pushy way that this is the time to purchase. This is usually done by asking probing questions.

If I had walked out the door every tme an account told they didn't want to buy anything right now - I would have lost 50% of my sales which were over 6 figures for 10 consecutive years It was my job to find out why they didn't want to buy right now and if I could overcome the specific objection as to why they didn't want to buy right now. Those sales reps who accepted objections don't make it very long in any industry. It's all about attitude and knowing how to deal with people.

I don't know any sales organization of any kind that does not teach that the sales dosen't begin until the customer says no. Its basic sales 101 and there is nothing unprofessional about it. Learning to deal with objections in a professional way is the mark of a true professioinal and can be done in a non threatening way. In those 10 years if anyone got angry because I asked questions, I smiled, thanked them for their time and called on all of their compeditors, never gracing their door again.

Rep

Rep: Can I assume you are a frame salesperson? Have you ever sold direct retail? If not, then you should know they are two entirely different beasts.

[fjpod]

Someone needs to create a positive spin to get this thread to work...

Convince Chip that glass lenses sold online are bad, convince Mike that castor oil doesnt work...and let them play in their own sandbox...

..and don't forget me. You've got to convince me that EG1 wasn't passed simply to benefit a special interest group. (and I am not talking about the public at large).

[cwinma]

If the argument is " And the number one objection is: I don't want to buy anything right now" The door is OPEN to find out if not 'right now' then 'when' as opposed to I don't want to buy from you, but then as I write I would ask why not, however, not as an conversion tactic.

[Jana Lewis]

I'm sorry you feel that way Keri, honestly. I'm a person who takes the written word at its face value (how can I do anything else as I can't see your face), and I go by what you've written here about what you would do. This is the first time you've stated talking about insurance, but does that really change anything?

As far as accusations and being ignorant, I respectfully decline to accept those labels. I am not ignorant, nor am I making any accusations. I am asking (sharply) pointed questions about what you said you would do under the circumstances.

I guess it comes down to this: for me, myself, when someone tells me they are not interested in purchasing anything at this time, I leave it at that. I hand them my business card and tell them to have a nice day, and go about the rest of my business. I do this all the time at trade shows and the like. I won't waste time on anyone who isn't interested in purchasing, there are plenty waiting who are interested.

Once again, it isn't about being an optician, it IS about the best way to handle a customer who has expressed a clear statement of not wanting to buy anything. If you want to discuss insurance, well, sure, but isn't that part of trying to sell them something?

Jeez louise, just where ARE you gettin this outrageous claim?

This is what Kerri said:

[QUOTESpeaking to a patient about their insurance, or asking to price something out for them to be AWARE that not all glasses are $1,000, is hardly pushing anything. If someone flat out tells me they don't want any, I will say, "Certainly, I understand. You have VSP (or whatever insurance) I'll gladly go over what they cover so you're aware for when YOU COME BACK to look at frames" Then they kind of have an idea. Sorry, but I like to educate my patient rather than the "Ok, here's your RX..have a nice day"][/QUOTE]

You equate this with high pressure that would force you to terminate and/or walk out of a situation? REALLY??? Talk about hyperbole!

Lemme just get down to BRASS TACKS here. I would personaly RATHER have an optician that covers everything with the patient in an effort to sell a pair of glasses instead of a "uhhh, okay... see ya...please buy your glasses online" If you are not atleast TRYING to educate and help the patinet YOU ARE LAZY.

Kerri never mentioned once that she is holding a gun to someones head in order to BUY BUY BUY! She is not forcing or making someone uncomfortable. She is however, doing her JOB which insures that she and her practice is profitable. Hello!!

If I was LAZY and didn't atleast TRY to help a patient I wouldn't have a JOB. Don't know about you, but I like a roof over my head and some food in my stomach. You have taken this way out of context and you know it. Somehow, in some crazy way I think you kind of like it. Poo on you.

[hcjilson]

Rep: Can I assume you are a frame salesperson? Have you ever sold direct retail? If not, then you should know they are two entirely different beasts.

Mike, my accountant delights in reminding me that there are 3 words in the word assume.Lest it come back to bite you, I would give it a rest. Rep has run the gamut in this industry and if memory serves correctly, has a reasonably impressive curicula vitae. (Almost as good as mine! :):) ) He really doesn't need anyone telling him what he SHOULD know......if you get the drift. Occasionally we can learn more from listening than we can by talking.

[rep]

Mike, my accountant delights in reminding me that there are 3 words in the word assume.Lest it come back to bite you, I would give it a rest. Rep has run the gamut in this industry and if memory serves correctly, has a reasonably impressive curicula vitae. (Almost as good as mine! :):) ) He really doesn't need anyone telling him what he SHOULD know......if you get the drift. Occasionally we can learn more from listening than we can by talking.

I have done both retail and wholesale optical sales for the last 30 years . Prior to that I worked in the financial industry.

But I can always learn something. So list out for me why they are different Mike?

I think there are more things in common than are different.

I have been luirking on an off for a couple of years. This thread caught my attention, not because of the back and forth flaming , but because some on this board were not in the industry when Eyeglass I was enacted, and when the Texas case was filed. I was involved in both.

[optilady1]

I'm so annoyed, I just erased the entire reply I just wrote, and it was long. So let me try again (stupid laptop).

The big question is, are you someone who can turn around a "I don't wanna buy anything today" into a 3 pair sale, or are you a "Ok mr Jones, when you are ready to purchase give me a call, here's my card, and I can help you find what's best for you" kinda person. Neither is right or wrong.

Also, what type of doctor (or employer) do you work for? Are they very sales driven? Or do they see the dispensary as merely a service to their patients, so that those who don't want to go to a mall, or a different place, don't have to if they don't want to. I have worked for both types of places, and I can assure you that I have been aware for a long time that I'm the latter type of sales person. It used to bother me a lot, but I've accepted it.

I'm not lazy. I do ask questions. The very many times that this exact situation has happened to me, I've come out and asked the patient, "Are you price shopping elsewhere?" Lots of times they say yes, many times they don't know or have been going to another shop for a long time. When that happens, from my knowledge of the locals, I either say "Oh, so and so is also a great optician, and while I would love for you to purchase here, I know you will be well taken care of from them," and send them on their way. If it's a chain, or worse, a bargain chain, I'll say, "ok, well, see what you find, and just remember, we have ..." and give them a reason why they should consider coming back to me. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

To the original poster, I would ask your boss what he/she expects of you. It sounds like you want to capture these patients, so you may want to talk to your frame reps or other sales people you may know personaly. There are many tactics that you can use to entice these folks who say no right away. On the other hand, you don't want to be too pushy, because they won't come back if they think they need to forgo next months mortgage payment to buy their next pair of glasses. Find a good balance, and I'm sure that you will find yourself capturing the sale of these patients, providing for all their optical needs.

[MikeAurelius]

Optically speaking, rep, the differences are huge. (and please note, this is my humble opinion, no one elses)

As a rep, you have already had some face time with your customers, you know the people there on a first name basis, you probably stop in 4 or more times per year. You walk in, sit down, talk some about the weather and what not, all the while pulling out your cases of the most recent new stuff. The staff oohs and ahhhs, and picks out new stuff, you handle any returns, pack up and you are back out the door, on to the next stop.

From a patient's perspective, he sits in a chair waiting for the doc, reading the 6 month old People magazine. The last time he was in this office was about 2 years ago. Gets taken back, has his glasses taken for measurement, sits, has various tests performed, goes into the exam room for more tests. Doc does his thing, either writes out the Rx or passes off to the med staff to finish up. He's already late back to work, doesn't have time to look around, and for the most part, the 999+ frames on the wall intimidate him, as does the friendly faced woman who is asking him to sit down so they can pick out new glasses. He just doesn't have any time, and besides, he has a friend who works at another optical dispensary that he'd rather do business with anyway. He says: "No, thanks, I'm not buying eyewear today." hoping that will get him off the hook and out the door, but the woman just won't let it go, and finally, he just leaves.

No other quasi medical facility is set up like an OD's office, where they not only see to your eye needs but also can provide you the eyewear they need. When they go to the MD, he writes an Rx and the patient goes happily off to Walgreens to get it filled. Or he's referred to a surgeon and sent to the hospital to get something taken care of. No other medical facility in his experience does what the OD office does, and for many people it can be off-putting, especially if they feel pressured in any way to purchase eyewear then and there.

It is this "uniqueness" that led to Eyeglasses 1 (and for fjpod: regardless of who lobbied for it, it is still the law and must be followed, right?). OD's had a captive customer, who, in a few instances was being raked over the coals by unscrupulous OD/Opticians. That's why there is a mandated separation of duties between the OD side and the Optician side. The optical industry is like no other medical industry that I know of in this regard.

I've read a lot of the responses here over the past 8 months or so, and one of the threads I found most interesting was the one about the arrogance of the optician.

As I've written previously, I don't like pushy salespeople. Doing insurance exams as a cover to see if you can sell me eyewear I've made it very clear I don't want is going to tick me off. Asking me innocent-seeming questions trying to get me to rethink my position is also going to tick me off. No, I'm not interested means GO AWAY, I'm leaving now, thank you very much. Stop trying to sell me, all you are doing is making sure I'll be looking for another OD, thank you very much.

I had dinner tonight with a group of my friends and I brought this discussion up, and all of them (none of whom work in the optical industry) said they'd had the same experience when getting an eye exam, and they all shared the name of the OD/Optician office where it had happened. They all swore they'd never go back again.

Pushy salespeople, whether they are selling cell phones, used cars, or eyewear, are universally disliked and distrusted. You may not want to hear that, but it is the truth.

[HarryChiling]

Braheem,

You posted a link to the contact lens rule.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2004/01/040130...acticesfrn.pdf

On the other hand, the American
Optometric Association (‘‘AOA’’),22 the
California Optometric Association
(‘‘COA’’),23 the Texas Optometry
Board,24 and others urge the
Commission to rescind the eyeglass
prescription release rule.

It's the federal register discussing the ophthalmic prescription rule, a technicality I would like the check made out to Harry Chilinguerian (one "l" brother). :)

The actual rule: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...16cfr456.3.pdf

It is an unfair act or practice for an
ophthalmologist or optometrist to:
(a) Fail to provide to the patient one
copy of the patient’s prescription immediately
after the eye examination is
completed. Provided: An ophthalmologist
or optometrist may refuse to give
the patient a copy of the patient’s prescription
until the patient has paid for
the eye examination, but only if that
ophthalmologist or optometrist would
have required immediate payment
from that patient had the examination
revealed that no ophthalmic goods
were required;
(b) Condition the availability of an
eye examination to any person on a requirement
that the patient agree to
purchase any ophthalmic goods from
the ophthalmologist or optometrist;
(c) Charge the patient any fee in addition
to the ophthalmologist’s or optometrist’s
examination fee as a condition
to releasing the prescription to
the patient. Provided: An ophthalmologist
or optometrist may charge an additional
fee for verifying ophthalmic
goods dispensed by another seller when
the additional fee is imposed at the
time the verification is performed; or
(d) Place on the prescription, or require
the patient to sign, or deliver to
the patient a form or notice waiving or
disclaiming the liability or responsibility
of the ophthalmologist or optometrist
for the accuracy of the eye examination
or the accuracy of the ophthalmic
goods and services dispensed
by another seller.

Very interesting reads especially the federal register since the FTC was actually soliciting comments on if the rule was still necessary and relevant or not.

To the original poster when a patient say's: "what do you say when the patient tells you they don't want glasses at this time?"

You follow with, "I understand, here's what type of frames you should look for when you are ready and according to your prescription you should get XXX material lenses along with XXX options. Here is my business card call me if you need any help in interpreting your prescription or determining what you need."

It's quick, it's simple, it's not selling it's consulting and if you initially concede with "I understand" then there should be no controversy over you being pushy, but by going into what would suit their prescription well you give them the opportunity to see your skills and it gives you an opportunity to start a dialogue.