Guess who's next to "can't beat 'em so join 'em" in online?

[drk]

VSP.

They are developing their own website as we speak. They've leaked it on their Eyefinity website.

I can't link you without a password, and I don't want to copy/paste or they may neuter me.

I'm reading between the lines that they are going to have their own system and it will be direct-to-consumer, but will "steer the patients to your office for professional care".

I won't delve into how bad this is for the consumer, but how long until VSP gives members the choice of online glasses as their benefit as well as using real professionals? First, online will be an option, then an incentivized option, then mandatory.

Works for VSP. Doesn't work for member labs, vision care professionals, and the patient who has to have robo-care.




The reality is, and I'll say it again for VSP and Essilor and all the MOO cows to ponder:

YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BEAT THE THIRD WORLD AT THIS GAME! You cannot have a cost-competitive product/"service". You will lose your investment.

Maybe they'll move their operations off-shore to stay price competitive. Try to suck the optical manufacturing and dispensing business into India or Vietnam. I hope their VSP-global-ized vision of vision care is the end of them, but I watch companies move jobs offshore every day.

And look out--EyeMed is never far behind. They're likely on it now, as we speak.

[rdcoach5]

VSP.

They are developing their own website as we speak. They've leaked it on their Eyefinity website.

I can't link you without a password, and I don't want to copy/paste or they may neuter me.

I'm reading between the lines that they are going to have their own system and it will be direct-to-consumer, but will "steer the patients to your office for professional care".

I won't delve into how bad this is for the consumer, but how long until VSP gives members the choice of online glasses as their benefit as well as using real professionals? First, online will be an option, then an incentivized option, then mandatory.

Works for VSP. Doesn't work for member labs, vision care professionals, and the patient who has to have robo-care.




The reality is, and I'll say it again for VSP and Essilor and all the MOO cows to ponder:

YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BEAT THE THIRD WORLD AT THIS GAME! You cannot have a cost-competitive product/"service". You will lose your investment.

Maybe they'll move their operations off-shore to stay price competitive. Try to suck the optical manufacturing and dispensing business into India or Vietnam. I hope their VSP-global-ized vision of vision care is the end of them, but I watch companies move jobs offshore every day.

And look out--EyeMed is never far behind. They're likely on it now, as we speak.

Dr K, I agree with everything you have written about online glasses.Anyone on the other side is either an online vender themself or stupid. It's not in anyone's best interest except online venders to purchase glasses online. First, it is in many states illegal/ quasi-illegal. Second, it is / or should be illegal for a number of reasons that you have previously stated. Glasses are not a commodity such as tennis shoes. Tennis shoes do not need to have Rx checked,POW measured and verified, PD's measured and verified and glasses need to be perpetually adjusted to serve perfectly for the written Rx. Anyone who is old enough to have fit the old cataract glasses before implants can attest to this.Vertex and panto adjustments were CRITICAL! Dr K, are you hiring?

[Barry Santini]

All the big boys will explain their entry to online to private, professional ECPs as "can't leave that money on the table, can we?"

Blehch!

B

[lensmama]

Just wondering-as a vsp provider, will we be obligated to take pd's etc?

[eye2]

VSP.

They are developing their own website as we speak. They've leaked it on their Eyefinity website.

I can't link you without a password, and I don't want to copy/paste or they may neuter me.

I'm reading between the lines that they are going to have their own system and it will be direct-to-consumer, but will "steer the patients to your office for professional care".

I won't delve into how bad this is for the consumer, but how long until VSP gives members the choice of online glasses as their benefit as well as using real professionals? First, online will be an option, then an incentivized option, then mandatory.

Works for VSP. Doesn't work for member labs, vision care professionals, and the patient who has to have robo-care.


The reality is, and I'll say it again for VSP and Essilor and all the MOO cows to ponder:

YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BEAT THE THIRD WORLD AT THIS GAME! You cannot have a cost-competitive product/"service". You will lose your investment.

Maybe they'll move their operations off-shore to stay price competitive. Try to suck the optical manufacturing and dispensing business into India or Vietnam. I hope
their VSP-global-ized vision of vision care is the end of them, but I watch companies move jobs offshore every day.

And look out--EyeMed is never far behind. They're likely on it now, as we
speak.

From what I have heard isn't Lux already doing this with there lab in the far east?
:hammer:

[Jacqui]

Just wondering-as a vsp provider, will we be obligated to take pd's etc?

Yes!! and you will do it and adjustments for FREE!!

[Uncle Fester]

Just wondering-as a vsp provider, will we be obligated to take pd's etc?

If you're a Massachusetts OD you already must (PD's) according to the Mass Society of Optometrists.

[drk]

Hey, how do you feel about buying Marchon frames NOW?!

This will be the first major frame vendor to sell online.

(Luxottica beat them to the punch on bricks and mortar.)

[eye2]

Hey, how do you feel about buying Marchon frames NOW?!

This will be the first major frame vendor to sell online.

(Luxottica beat them to the punch on bricks and mortar.)

I think the boxes beat them on a lot of things. One of them is hiring people (RM's ) who have no optical knowledge. They do have knowledge on how to fire. I heard of a newbie in one of large chains ( hint 2 for 99 ) that fired a manager who had experience and hired a non- licensed guy to over see two stores and then wanted the licensed people to baby sit the non- licensed person because they can't be alone because there non- licensed. Go figure! And from what I hear resentment is quite high. Real nice to let people go during the holiday season, isn't that the real meaning of the year? REALLY. Let's everybody hire these incompetents, non- licensed people then we all can be with out a job! My friend was quite upset, wouldn't you be?

[jediron1]

Ditto eye2

[racethe1320]

VSP.

They are developing their own website as we speak. They've leaked it on their Eyefinity website.

I can't link you without a password, and I don't want to copy/paste or they may neuter me.

I'm reading between the lines that they are going to have their own system and it will be direct-to-consumer, but will "steer the patients to your office for professional care".

I won't delve into how bad this is for the consumer, but how long until VSP gives members the choice of online glasses as their benefit as well as using real professionals? First, online will be an option, then an incentivized option, then mandatory.

Works for VSP. Doesn't work for member labs, vision care professionals, and the patient who has to have robo-care.

I thought you and I bantered about this weeks ago? It's been around for months, not just brand new. The consumer buying online / their revenue is going to be directed to the local office(s). VSP isn't keeping the money or cutting the private practice VSP docs out of the loop. Quite the opposite, they are essentially capturing the online consumer and keeping them from going to Frames Direct.

You're in Ohio? Perhaps you need to stop by their lab or their office at Easton and actually talk to a live person and learn more about these programs that seem to irritate you so much.

[Arbeiter]

I'm an eCommerce guy and thus might have some insight here. The only way VSP can be white knights and win this war for b&m's is if they spend thousands of dollars a day on Adwords and hundreds of thousands a year on SEO (plus, they're going to have to build an app that directs you to your local ECP based on IP addy -- and if there's more than one, what then?). Anyone who has used VSP's online system will agree that they aren't exactly top-notch when it comes to web apps, so what would make you think they can manage hundreds of e-com sites and deliver quality, consistency, and SEO, while being fair to multiple VSP providers in the same geographic area?
The fact is, for those few providers for whom it makes sense, an eCommerce site can be set up, marketed, and managed far better by an independent web agency than by a monolithic company who doesn't have the ECP's best interest at heart and can't even get their own site working correctly.
I think b&m opticals can win this war with smart SEO, real customer engagement, and leveraging the web to make things easier for both them and their clients. Getting in bed with an insurer (and frame company), is not only unnecessary but will prove to be a mistake both short and long term.

[racethe1320]

I'm an eCommerce guy and thus might have some insight here. The only way VSP can be white knights and win this war for b&m's is if they spend thousands of dollars a day on Adwords and hundreds of thousands a year on SEO (plus, they're going to have to build an app that directs you to your local ECP based on IP addy -- and if there's more than one, what then?). Anyone who has used VSP's online system will agree that they aren't exactly top-notch when it comes to web apps, so what would make you think they can manage hundreds of e-com sites and deliver quality, consistency, and SEO, while being fair to multiple VSP providers in the same geographic area?
The fact is, for those few providers for whom it makes sense, an eCommerce site can be set up, marketed, and managed far better by an independent web agency than by a monolithic company who doesn't have the ECP's best interest at heart and can't even get their own site working correctly.
I think b&m opticals can win this war with smart SEO, real customer engagement, and leveraging the web to make things easier for both them and their clients. Getting in bed with an insurer (and frame company), is not only unnecessary but will prove to be a mistake both short and long term.

You need to learn more about how the site and system(s) here will function. I'll leave it at that. Suspense is a good thing. In due time.....

[Arbeiter]

Pretty sure I don't need to learn more. I won't be paying a company that knows nothing about eCommerce to do eCommerce, especially when that company supports my competitors.

You seem to have an inroad with them, so why not tell VSP to get their main online site functioning correctly before they decide how 600+ e-com sites will function. Simple form stuff, dude, things a college kid can fix, aren't working as they should on their site where we submit claims.

The eye care industry is preyed upon when it comes to IT; I think it's because OD's have to concentrate so much on their studies they just don't have time for tech. But from crap practice-management software to this absurd VSP initiative, it keeps happening, and it's time real developers wise up and give the optical market the software and web presence they deserve.

[racethe1320]

Pretty sure I don't need to learn more. I won't be paying a company that knows nothing about eCommerce to do eCommerce, especially when that company supports my competitors.

Who said you'll be paying them? I hope you never feel you it's okay to stop learning.......

to this absurd VSP initiative....

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts and insight on this initiative. Would you mind sharing your understanding of it? You seem pretty confident, so please do share.

[racethe1320]

You seem to have an inroad with them, so why not tell VSP to get their main online site functioning correctly before they decide how 600+ e-com sites will function. Simple form stuff, dude, things a college kid can fix, aren't working as they should on their site where we submit claims. The eye care industry is preyed upon when it comes to IT; I think it's because OD's have to concentrate so much on their studies they just don't have time for tech.

I'm also curious if you have provided any feedback to them? Given your clearly noted knowledge of the situation and simplistic nature of the problem and the fact that you feel the industry is prayed upon by those in IT, who exactly have you brought the issues to the attention of? Anyone?

[Arbeiter]

I obviously meant I needed to learn nothing more about this particular issue, not that I intended to never learn anything again. What are you, twelve? Context clues.

And about the absurdity: An insurance company that sells frames to my competitors and whose flagship (and only) website doesn't work as well as it could, and has no eCommerce experience whatsoever, is now trying to convince me that they can not only create compelling eCommerce websites for thousands of businesses, but that those websites will work (I hope) better than their own website, and that they can somehow fairly distribute search rankings among their "partners" in the same geographical area.

Mind you, I'm not one of the conspiracy theorists talking about VSP's long-term goals. You should thank me for that.

And by the way, you're an optometrist? And you want to argue eCommerce with me? Take your degree and shove it up your canal of Schlemm, pal. I don't come into your work and tell you how to ask which is better, one or two, so do us both a favor and quit pretending you know anything about this subject. You're just saying "something's coming, wait for it."

[racethe1320]

I obviously meant I needed to learn nothing more about this particular issue, not that I intended to never learn anything again. What are you, twelve? Context clues.

Considering your reply about learning more directly followed my point of "You need to learn more about the site" I'd say your hardly clear on the context of your point.

And about the absurdity: An insurance company that sells frames to my competitors and whose flagship (and only) website doesn't work as well as it could, and has no eCommerce experience whatsoever, is now trying to convince me that they can not only create compelling eCommerce websites for thousands of businesses, but that those websites will work (I hope) better than their own website, and that they can somehow fairly distribute search rankings among their "partners" in the same geographical area.

Who are your competitors and what's the relevancy there?
"whose flagship (and only) website" So VSP only has one website between their six business units?
So you're saying that between the 26yrs of history with Officemate and Launch of Eyefinity they have absolutely no eCommerce experience?

Don't forget my other questions:

• Who said you'll be paying them?
• I'd also still love to hear more of your thoughts and insight on their online site. Would you mind sharing your understanding of it?

In regards to those their website problems:

• Have provided any feedback to them?
• Given your clearly noted knowledge of the situation and simplistic nature of the problem and the fact that you feel the industry is prayed upon by those in IT, who exactly have you brought the issues to the attention of? Anyone?

Mind you, I'm not one of the conspiracy theorists talking about VSP's long-term goals. You should thank me for that.

Why would I thank you? I don't care if you do or don't buy into conspiracy theories about VSP. Most who do are very small independents, don't/can't take VSP or do and talk out both sides as they complain yet happily cash the checks. That's okay though....keeps the world interesting.

And by the way, you're an optometrist? And you want to argue eCommerce with me?

Since when did asking question become arguing? For the record, yes, I'm an OD, own my own practice with multiple locations and have 15 employees. I also run a photography and video production company. I've over 20 years in Technology, with both an EMR and ERP background. I'll date myself and say I began working on the IBM iSeries (AS/400) series. I also maintain the billing for my wife's law practice and together we manage an property mangement company focused on rental/purchases of medical offices.

Take your degree and shove it up your canal of Schlemm, pal. I don't come into your work and tell you how to ask which is better, one or two, so do us both a favor and quit pretending you know anything about this subject. You're just saying "something's coming, wait for it."

Love the Jersey Boy attitude. I don't have to "pretend" to know about this program. Much as you are about your stuff, I'm pretty confident I know more about this initiative than you.

Enough c@ck-fighting........You still have my curiosity peaked on the above questions.

[Arbeiter]

Good God, you're as stubborn as me. Alright, no more c@ck-fighting. We're both blessed. : )

I thought you were being sarcastic, but it seems you're genuinely interested in my specific concerns. Answering off the cuff wouldn't be useful to anyone, so I'll try to present my thoughts in a more focused matter shortly.

The goal here for both of us is learning more about what's best for ECP's and patients going forward, so even though we disagree I think we're both men of good intentions -- and that's what makes a good argument a good argument and not a fight!

I'll get back to you with specifics ASAP.

[MichaelP]

(for those who don't know me, I work for one of the online optical retailers.)

I can't say I know anything about VSP's upcoming initiative, but since I know a thing or two about e-commerce and SEO, I'll say this:

First, neither VSP getting into the game nor Essilor's MyOnlineOptical.com initiative worry me in the slightest. As mentioned above, SEO is hard, and in the online eyewear market, very competitive. It's not just something you can throw money at and succeed, nor is it something you can jump into and get good results from Day 1. I'm not even speaking about ourselves, but just looking at our competitors, it's a steep hill to climb to beat the existing sites on an SEO basis. It's a whole different ball game, something which requires real expertise along with significant capital to win. And SEO is a field riddled with snake oil salesmen who call themselves consultants and people who have only half a clue what they're doing.

Plus, all of that is just getting people to your website. It's another step entirely to convert them into customers.

Second, AdWords. Very roughly, the average cost per click for eyeglasses-related terms is $1.00. Given a standard 1% conversion rate, that means your advertising cost per customer is $100. I know we can't compete with that, and so AdWords isn't a big part of our marketing mix. And if the plan of VSP or any independent is to jump in using AdWords, I think they'll be hard pressed to make it work.

BUT....

This possibly could be bad for our business, but I don't see the ECP as our competition, so I'm going to share anyway.

You guys have a huge advantage in local search.

Google has been pushing hard on the local front. They tried to acquire Groupon recently primarily because of their large local sales force. More relevant, look how they've incorporated first Google Maps and now Google Places into the results.

Let's relate this to us: do a search for the keyword "eyeglasses" on Google. For reference, "eyeglasses" as a keyword has the single largest search value for our field. Personalization aside (if you don't know what that is, google "google personalization"), what you see is this:

3 Ads (Google AdWords, with a purple box behind them)

(to the right) A map of local retailers.

"Related Searches", which show "Brands", "Stores", and "Types" (these are new)

First "organic" result: for me is my local Lenscrafters. it's a Google Places page, with reviews and an address.

Second and third results: eyeglasses.com and zennioptical.com, respectively.

Fourth result: My local Pearle Vision

Fifth result: A local chain of stores that has an address close to me

Sixth result: A local O.D.

Seventh result: Another local chain.

Eighth result: A local optician.

Ninth result: A local optician.

10th-15th results: the usual suspects of online retailers.

These results are all based on the location of the searcher (Google can determine this via IP). Now, it doesn't work for all eyewear related keywords, but it's clear Google is trying to push searches towards their local practitioner, for at least a lot of searches. Google Places is the first step - if you haven't created this for your practice yet, you really should. Even better would be finding an SEO firm that specializes in local search.

You guys can beat us (the online retailers) here, and pretty easily. We can't even fight it, because Google has decided for many terms (basically any "keyword + city", or certain terms like "eyeglasses") that local results are more relevant.

If anyone has any specific questions about this or other SEO, I'd be happy to answer them, as I know a fair bit about this area. And, like I said above, at least for us, we don't see the ECP as our competition.

[engnenk]

If a manufacturer sells its product direct to consumer online then any B&M that carries their product is simply functioning as an uncompensated showroom. Why would you want to do this?

[tdj]

Lux has a lab in Thailand now. I'd bet a very large sum of money that that is where the FramesDirect thing will end up.

[drk]

1320, I raced the 880. The 1320 was rarely an event.

I think VSP will trip over their...in this endeavor and further alienate their providers to boot.

We'll see.

[racethe1320]

1320, I raced the 880. The 1320 was rarely an event.

I think you're referencing a different type of track event. You foot raced whereas I own, build and race several drag cars. The 1320 is always quite an event for me :)