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Thread: PAL Auto Measuring Device

  1. #1
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    PAL Auto Measuring Device

    Does anyone have any experience with the Zeiss or any other device that automatically measures seg heights/PD's? My opticians are disasters when it comes to fitting PAL's lately.

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    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
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    I would have read around the board before making this post.


    Hire competent opticians. They won't break down, they don't require software upgrades or customer support and not only will they save you remakes they will also wow patients with their customer service skills. So much better to have patients come back for the people you have working not the whiz bang tech. everyone can buy that machine not everyone will invest in their staff.

  3. #3
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    An automated device will not always ensure better measurements for personnel that appear to not be able to take good measurements manually.

    Barry

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    Rochester Optical WFruit's Avatar
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    There are 79 threads on the Zeiss iTerminal alone...... seek (use the search function) and ye shall find!

    If your opticians are disasters (only recently) at fitting PAL's, how will they be at properly running the iTerminal, et al? If (only recently) they can't fit a progressive, how will they know that the machine is properly doing it?
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcneel View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with the Zeiss or any other device that automatically measures seg heights/PD's? My opticians are disasters when it comes to fitting PAL's lately.
    If it's truely a recent phenomenon, then verify the accuracy of the pupilometer. Consider additional training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    An automated device will not always ensure better measurements for personnel that appear to not be able to take good measurements manually.

    Barry
    Remember the Monty Python sketch with the most expensive machine in the hospital that so pleased the administrator?



    Moreover, I don't know of any machine that will choose and pre-adust the frame so that at a minimum, each specific client receives adequate and reasonably comfortable vision, along with acceptable physical comfort around the ears and nose.
    Last edited by Robert Martellaro; 12-21-2010 at 02:27 PM.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  6. #6
    Rochester Optical WFruit's Avatar
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    PING!

    It's from "The Meaning of Life."
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

  7. #7
    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFruit View Post
    PING!

    It's from "The Meaning of Life."
    Watch out for those "wafer-thin mints!"
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    Last week I had a frame sales rep in and I was telling him why I wasn't wearing the frame he comped me (couldn't get a pair of GT23Dv lenses I could see out of) and he looked at me puzzled. When I asked why he looked so perplexed he said "Zeiss?" Yes. Proceeded to tell me about an office he had been in the previous week and the optician was making notes about all the 'wows' they recently had dispensing Zeiss lenses (he noted the list was very long). He had also mentioned the Zeiss rep was in that office at the same time. The rep showed up in my office 2 days later and when I asked her about it she stated that they were one of her "iTerminal Accounts" and that the lens was the Zeiss Individual and that, yes, they had been having fabulous results as had all of her iTerminal accounts. She seems to think it's the biggest difference between getting excellent, instead of 'ok' results. Naturally she would pump her product, but I thought that an observation from a neutral party along with the wisdom of the pros who have so far responded to your thread you may want to know that many offices are thrilled with it. Does it replace a qualified optician? Of course not, but you already knew that.

    *I have no affiliation with Zeiss or any other lens manufacturer.*

  9. #9
    One eye sees, the other feels OptiBoard Silver Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLG View Post
    Last week I had a frame sales rep in and I was telling him why I wasn't wearing the frame he comped me (couldn't get a pair of GT23Dv lenses I could see out of) and he looked at me puzzled. When I asked why he looked so perplexed he said "Zeiss?" Yes. Proceeded to tell me about an office he had been in the previous week and the optician was making notes about all the 'wows' they recently had dispensing Zeiss lenses (he noted the list was very long). He had also mentioned the Zeiss rep was in that office at the same time. The rep showed up in my office 2 days later and when I asked her about it she stated that they were one of her "iTerminal Accounts" and that the lens was the Zeiss Individual and that, yes, they had been having fabulous results as had all of her iTerminal accounts. She seems to think it's the biggest difference between getting excellent, instead of 'ok' results. Naturally she would pump her product, but I thought that an observation from a neutral party along with the wisdom of the pros who have so far responded to your thread you may want to know that many offices are thrilled with it. Does it replace a qualified optician? Of course not, but you already knew that.

    *I have no affiliation with Zeiss or any other lens manufacturer.*
    From my experience, their success with the Individual is due to the PAL design, and to a much lesser extent Rx and POW optimizations. If you're a hyperope, try the Individual- it reminds me of the old Multigressive.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  10. #10
    Rochester Optical WFruit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcneel View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with the Zeiss or any other device that automatically measures seg heights/PD's?
    It occured to me that we haven't really answered the OP's question. The answer is "Yes, there are people with experience with the Zeiss and other vendor's devices that automatically measure seg ht and PD."

    "But sir, it is but one waffer thin mint."

    And I agree with Robert that the success of the Zeiss Individual is due to the PAL design and not the iTerminal. If for no other reason than that the lens was VERY successful before the iTerminal was released. And it's a very, very good design.
    There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.

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    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcneel View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with the Zeiss or any other device that automatically measures seg heights/PD's? My opticians are disasters when it comes to fitting PAL's lately.
    May we ask what brand of lens you typically use and how your opticians currently measure them? And since you say 'lately', what has changed recently? Keep in mind that if you're not fitting individualized lenses that there is no need for an auto-measure device (nor do you need one if you do).

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLG View Post
    May we ask what brand of lens you typically use and how your opticians currently measure them? And since you say 'lately', what has changed recently? Keep in mind that if you're not fitting individualized lenses that there is no need for an auto-measure device (nor do you need one if you do).
    Disagree. *Everyone* should become experienced in taking repeatable and reliable POW measurements by practicing on all clients, regardless of lens design to be used.

    FWIW

    B

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    Disagree. *Everyone* should become experienced in taking repeatable and reliable POW measurements by practicing on all clients, regardless of lens design to be used.

    FWIW

    B
    *Whatever*

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLG View Post
    *Whatever*
    Totally agree

  15. #15
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter rdcoach5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcneel View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with the Zeiss or any other device that automatically measures seg heights/PD's? My opticians are disasters when it comes to fitting PAL's lately.
    OK, first of all, an optician should be able to take PD's to the 1/2 mm. If not, train them. Best easiest way is to use a penlight and dot the center of the demo lens. The optician has to use their dominant eye and shift position slightly to accommodate. If you have a good pupillometer, the total PD should match your optician's PD.
    Monocular PD's are sometimes way off on the pupillometer due to irregular bridges and foreheads. The total PD must match your optician's, though, or he/she is wrong. Have them practice on your staff.

  16. #16
    OptiWizard Yeap's Avatar
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    we have various fitting equipment here.. as the members have mentioned, if your optician can't even get the manual work done it will be the same in functioning the equipment.
    if you have a well trained optician plus the high tech equipment that able to WoW your patient that will be a better option.
    Yeap


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