Eyelogic Circling the Drain???

[NorthStar]

Perhaps the sudden loss of over a dozen Great Glasses contracts, and HPRAC recent report preventing independent refraction by opticians in Ontario has caused the shares of this company to plummet...
Eyelogic Suspends Quarterly Dividends

22 November 2010

Eyelogic Systems Inc.'s board of directors announced last Thursday the suspension of its quarterly dividends of four cents per share because of financial issues.

As stated by Eyelogic CEO Rick Skauge, "Given Eyelogic's current loss of profitability, a loss of our line of credit, and uncertain near-term growth, the board made a prudent decision to halt that quarterly dividend effective immediately." He went on to indicate that "the board will revisit the dividend policy when a more predictable profit picture develops."
Skauge confirmed to Infoclip.ca that the third-quarter financial report will be available this week as well as a report providing more information about the company's current situation.
The Albertan manufacturer of automated refraction systems has seen its share prices drop continually on the Toronto Stock Exchange from a peak of $2.90 in 2008. Eyelogic share value, which was $2.00 in May 2010, was only $0.91 at market closing on November 19.

Source: http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../18/c5764.html

[Jacqui]

Almost bought one of those. Glad I didn't :)

[LandLord]

Why don't most optometrists own an eyelogic? It's just another automated device. Like od's offices aren't already filled with automated devices. It would save them time, no?

[Oedema]

Why don't most optometrists own an eyelogic? It's just another automated device. Like od's offices aren't already filled with automated devices. It would save them time, no?

1) its costs ALOT on money
2) It doesn't save time unless its delegated to a tech - in fact I bet it takes longer than it would take me to do a refraction
3) Not many OD's are willing to support a company that made its goal to marginalize OD's from its very outset. Fact is that eyelogic is behind the push for independent "sight-testing" across Canada.

[Refractingoptician.com]

An older but interesting press release :

http://www.eyelogic.com/Releases/Pre...%20Lawsuit.pdf

[Oedema]

Share price down 42% so far today! =)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ary/?q=EYE.A-X

[Ory]

Share price down 42% so far today! =)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ary/?q=EYE.A-X

Ouch! Glad I'm not invested in that!

[Refractingoptician.com]

Is it possible there is not enough trained British Columbia opticians that are allowed to refract ? Did they not check the registry list to see how small the numbers are in that province ? When no one makes the equipment I wonder what the new "spin" of opportunity will be ?

Or is there more to the Shire claim ?

[LandLord]

Now I see why ODs don't like eyelogic. I already knew opticians would never want eyelogic. We like manual measurement. If I was refracting I would much rather do it on a phoropter.

[idispense]

Somebody please correct my thinking on this.

If there are only a couple hundred legal refracting opticians in BC. then I assume they can legally use a phoropter and they can buy a phoropter cheaper than an Eyelogic machine and if ODs prefer a phoropter, then the market for Eyelogic machines is very small and limited to the grey market. The grey market meaning it would be marketed to opticians hiring non-opticians to use it to get around the prohibition on opticians using it in other provinces than B.C. That means it can only be used with some sort of fax back system where another OD or MD signs off which now enables a legal optician to circumvent his own provincial regulatory problems with the machine. Now that GG is in jail that reduces the market share for EyeLogic in Ontario and scares off others.

Where is the market for this machine ? Is it only a grey market item ?

[Oedema]

Somebody please correct my thinking on this.

If there are only a couple hundred legal refracting opticians in BC. then I assume they can legally use a phoropter and they can buy a phoropter cheaper than an Eyelogic machine and if ODs prefer a phoropter, then the market for Eyelogic machines is very small and limited to the grey market. The grey market meaning it would be marketed to opticians hiring non-opticians to use it to get around the prohibition on opticians using it in other provinces than B.C. That means it can only be used with some sort of fax back system where another OD or MD signs off which now enables a legal optician to circumvent his own provincial regulatory problems with the machine. Now that GG is in jail that reduces the market share for EyeLogic in Ontario and scares off others.

Where is the market for this machine ? Is it only a grey market item ?

My understanding is that opticians in BC are only permitted to perform "automated refraction," ruling out the use of a regular phoropter. That said regulations never stopped the sight testers in BC...

[LandLord]

My understanding is that opticians in BC are only permitted to perform "automated refraction," ruling out the use of a regular phoropter. That said regulations never stopped the sight testers in BC...

I don't see how a regulation could split hairs between manual and auto refracting.

[Oedema]

I don't see how a regulation could split hairs between manual and auto refracting.

I know it doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what's in the regulations. Looks to me like regulations made specifically for eyelogic...

[fjpod]

I know I'll probably get blasted here, but Odema is right, the regs were designed around automated refraction only. The goal was that the "monkey" operating it would not have to do any thinking. With a phoropter, there is no automated script telling you what to do next You actually have to think. I've seen a demo of the Eyelogic script and anyone can learn to use it. You don't have to be an optician. It;s not at all like using a phoropter, and it is not at all the way someone trained in refraction would want to do their work. too expensive and takes too long. And what's the purpose?? to eliminate the professional.

Just sayin'...

[amus]

If Od's got on board and used their staff to use the eyelogic system, they could double the amount of patients they could see. They could still check all pathology on all clients and refract the complicated patients. But let healthy patients be refracted by eyelogic. The system does work.

At some point I can see M.D. 's start using the system and open optical stores with the eyelogic model.

[Oedema]

If Od's got on board and used their staff to use the eyelogic system, they could double the amount of patients they could see. They could still check all pathology on all clients and refract the complicated patients. But let healthy patients be refracted by eyelogic. The system does work.

At some point I can see M.D. 's start using the system and open optical stores with the eyelogic model.

Amus,

Very valid observations, however as an optometrist if I were to delegate refraction I would use better equipment (for less money btw) from a company that has not done all it could to marginalize my profession. Eyelogic screwed themselves by overlooking and angering their biggest opportunity for sales; optometrists. Game Over.

[amus]

Are the other systems better? If so then that makes eyelogic out of date. If not they still may have some value, I know that the eyelogic system is very easy to use, and has good results.

what scares me is that some big chain store will put that type of system in all their stores and have a one MD check and validate the rx by remote. Via tela medicine it just may happen. One live video feed from the store to the md.

[Jacqui]

what scares me is that some big chain store will put that type of system in all their stores and have a one MD check and validate the rx by remote. Via tela medicine it just may happen. One live video feed from the store to the md.

I thought someone was doing this. If not it could easily happen.

[Oedema]

Where have you been? Remote signing of an Rx was the original model. The only advantage of eyelogic is in the software - anyone with a heartbeat and at least one finger can operate it. The other systems out there are MUCH better but require a skilled technician.

[idispense]

What system would you recommend ?

[Chris Ryser]

Clinical Evaluation of the Topcon BV-1000 Automated Subjective Refraction System

http://journals.lww.com/optvissci/Fu...V_1000.10.aspx


GDR7000 Digital Refractor



Name: GDR7000 Digital Refractor


Serial Number: GDR7000 Manufacturer Name: Gilras

http://www.deviceoptical.com/pd-gdr7...-refractor.cfm

http://www.usophthalmic.com/Digital-refractors

Product nameDigital Refractor Category Measurement & Analysis Instruments > Optical Instruments > Other Optics Instruments Keywordhuvitz, optometric medical equipment, auto ref/keratometer, automatic lensmeter

http://www.tradekorea.com/e-catalogu...Refractor.html

[doglas]

the one i just got, was the topcon exam 5000, it's quicker, & a smaller foot print, which doesn't use the projected mirror system, but there is a catch....you (the optician) can't buy it from topcon canada, they won't sell to you ( i think there cutting there own throat with this one) i do believe they are in bed with the optometrist's, but anyways, if you know an optometrist it can be bought through them, which was one of my options (relative), but that's not the way i went, if you buy it out of the states, it was $20,000 CHEAPER! so i just shipped it here, & a double bonus, you get the (gst) back that you pay at the boarder...but google the topcon system, then you'll know what i'm talking about.

[eyemac]

But let healthy patients be refracted by eyelogic. The system does work.

... if only determining who is 'healthy' were as easy as it sounds - given that an estimated 15% of (asymptomatic) patients presenting for a routine exam are diagnosed with some form of ocular pathology, a diagnosis that is not made until the conclusion of their comprehensive exam, the argument for stand-alone refraction is, and always will be, weak ...

[LandLord]

But let healthy patients be refracted by eyelogic. The system does work.

... if only determining who is 'healthy' were as easy as it sounds - given that an estimated 15% of (asymptomatic) patients presenting for a routine exam are diagnosed with some form of ocular pathology, a diagnosis that is not made until the conclusion of their comprehensive exam, the argument for stand-alone refraction is, and always will be, weak ...

What's weak is the argument that a refraction and an ocular health assessment can't be separated.

[eyemac]

What's weak is the argument that a refraction and an ocular health assessment can't be separated.

I'd like to hear your argument that they can - I've yet to hear a good one, but I'm always interested ...