Prescriptions 'to go'

[NCspecs]

Don't forget kittens.

Especially kittens with their stupid balls of yarn.

[NCspecs]

disregard

[Jana Lewis]

so much angst....maybe my glasses are rose-tinted but I still feel that there is something for everybody: high end, low end, on-line, mid range....there seems to be enough business in the industry to go around for everyone in whatver niche they are in

I agree. All this hand wringing... :drop:

[HarryChiling]

Keep in mind that many of the online sites have text to try and persuade the consumers that their optician is trying to rip them off or make a profit from them (which every business is).

Did you know that you don't need to buy a new frame every time you get a new prescription? It is just one more way that the optican makes a profit from you.

This type of attack is unprofessional and has no doubt helped build the online sales of eyewear. One claim from an onliner even goes so far as to state that they can more accurately guesstimate the segment heights and PD's then an optician can measure.

Early on, there was uncertainty about whether prescription eyeglasses other than single-vision could be provided accurately via the Web. Measuring seg heights for progressive lenses, for example, was an obvious concern. But Dr. Hodgson developed a mathematical formula for determining optimal seg height that doesn't require the usual face-to-face measurement. Using the frame specifications and an accurate monocular PD measurement, either from the patient's prescription or derived from a photo, the formula determines where the seg height should be. It's been so successful that seg heights are no longer measured in their brick-and-mortar optical showroom.

Here is another fallacy that is perpetuated by online vendors, to fool customers into mistrusting their ECP's:

How do I get my P.D. measured?

• Ask your eye doctor to take the measurement at the time of your eye examination.
• Call the last place that made your glasses for you and they should be able to tell you what it is.
• Go into any Optical facility and ask them to measure it for you. It will take only seconds to do and they shouldn’t charge you for it.

I can't take a product I need fixed to a competitor just because I bought a warranty and doing my competitors fitting because they said, "I shouldn't charge for it" is underhanded.

The markup of the local optical stores is crazily high, pushing the prices up to hundreds of dollars per pair in average.

In the why to buy them online instead of saying we are cheaper it's they are crazily expensive.

In 1978, the Federal Trade Commission passed a regulation rule known as Ophthalmic Practice Rule, or Eyeglass Rule. The rule requires eye doctors (optometrists or ophthalmologists) to give patients their eyeglass prescriptions at no extra cost. Based on the rule, you can ask for a copy of your prescription from your eye doctor after an eye exam.
The tricky part of the rule is that it doesn’t specify if the eyeglasses prescription includes Pupillary Distance (PD) or not. In most of the cases, upon request of measuring your PD, your eye doctor will include the PD in the prescription. Recently some industry giants are calling on the Eye Care Professionals (ECPs) to embrace the online technology and support the online optical stores to serve our patients in a better and more affordable way. PD is a critical number for us to produce the lenses and fit the lenses into the frame to match the optical centers of your eyes.
Though some online stores recommend ways of measuring your PD by yourself in front of mirror or by your family member using a regular ruler, we strongly suggest you get this number from your optician or eye doctor. It may take some time or charge some fee, but it is worth for your eye health.

To serve our patients, you guys are strictly sales people their is no patients. Industry giants are not calling on anyone to embrace, they are exploiting the venue by offering a subscription to sell patients their eyewear through an online model. The ECP is ultimately held responsible for all errors in the process if you read their terms and conditions.

Your optometrist should have given you your PD value as part of your prescription...................
While an optometrist's PD value is always recommended, you can get this measurement yourself. Have a friend or family member measure it by holding a ruler just below your eyes and measure the distance in mm from center to center. Make sure you are not looking at the person, but focusing straight ahead off in the distance, and keep your eyes steady. Take a few measurements for consistency.

There are only a handful of states that require a PD withthe prescription and in most cases the PD is considered a part of the eyewear fitting process that is being distorted to seem as though it is part of the exam. Also a patient measureing their own PD's is highly unaccurate I have trained offices with 30%+ remakes to take more accurate PD's and watched their remakes come down to 5-8% so it is obvious to me that the proper measurement is critical. Also through many B and M shops the PD is made accurate to within 2.5mm to comply with ANSI and sometimes even tighter tolerances their is no way to emulate that level of clarity from a self measured PD.

Q: How do I find out what my pupillary distance (PD) is?A: In order for our glasses to perform at their best, we need to create lenses that can match the distance between your eyes, so the center of each lens aligns with the center of your pupils. For this reason, we need your pupillary distance measurement – also known as the PD measurement.
Unfortunately, many opticians don’t include your PD in the prescription. However, you can ask your optician for it directly during your eye exam. If you already have your prescription, we can make your glasses using the average PD measurement. While it works well for most customers, it can cause discomfort or strain for others. If you have a strong prescription or your PD is significantly differently from the average, you may experience some problems with eyeglasses that have the average PD measurement.
Pupillary distance CAN be measured on your own with a tape measure. If you chose to measure your own PD, please do so in millimeters. Simply have someone measure from the middle of the left pupil through to the middle of the right pupil. Make sure you are looking straight forward at a distant object.
Average PD is about 62mm and most people fall within the 54 to 74 range. If your number is outside this range, you might be making a mistake. Please do not guess or assume your PD.
Occasionally, PD is written like 32/34.5 (for example), which means the measurement from the center of the nose to either eye, and your PD is the sum of the two – 32+34.5=66.5 (Mono R + Mono L = PD) and you can enter this as 66 or 67.
In your measurement, if you are off by a millimeter or two it’s OK. Try to be as accurate as possible, especially for progressive lenses.
You may also be able to get your PD from a previous optician. Unlike a prescription, your PD does not expire with age. Opticians are required, under federal law, to give you your PD as well as your full prescription. It is considered to be your property.

It is not federal law and they will supply a person with an average PD measurement even though they say in their explanation that this may cause discomfort.

Michale P.,

You have been very secretive about your place of employment in past threads and even now when you post on a topic where you have a conflict of interest you don't dislose certain facts, this to me indicates you can not be trusted. You mentioned a poster Barry S., over the past years I have watched magazines and writers twist and distort their interviews with him. I remember at one point that he was pro online vending and still probably is in the closet about it, but the model he practices with highly accurate eyewear and patient service just doesn't fit online. You may act like you can provide better quality and service but when the entire house of cards is built on estimations and inaccuracies your only guage is how few get returned. I have seen some sites sellign eyewear out of China for $6.95 I would suspect that most people would rather throw them away then send them back and go through the hassle of a return. It is interestign that most of the eyewear vendors hang their hat on low prices, there is a reason for it, your not worth any more than what you sell your eyewear for. I have the luxury and many B and M stores have the luxury of offering more.

Mike Aurelius,

Time and time again your comments have been conflicting to me, I heard you say in your 30 some odd years you have broken less than a handful of patients frames. Anyone in this industry knows you are either BS'ing or you don't handle frames. Your site indicates that your sister company sells lenses online and you have admitted that you do as well, but on this forum many are still confused as to the nature of your involvement and it changes regularly. You speak about being an expert in your niche, but comments made in other posts indicate you don't understand basic optics. You have passed off your assumptions as truths many times on this board before. I personally don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth, since much of it is either a half truth or assumption.

Every online vendors site I go to has testimonials about the quality and services, well the side you don't see are all the complaints. Many people are frustrated and dissatisfied with their eyewar and at the low prices it costs more to ship it back and deal with the vendors then to just chalk it up as a loss.

[MikeAurelius]

*shrugs* Harry, you've made it crystal clear that you don't like on-line, so nothing I could say would ever move you to change that opinion. I will 'call you out' however on your statement 'Every online vendors site I go to has testimonials about the quality and services'. GFG does not use testamonials. At all.

There is no sure way of knowing that the on-line businesses are good or bad, as the only time anyone sees someone who purchased a pair is when they've gotten a bad pair. That's like calling all Christians Catholic or all politicians Republican. It is false logic.

Do I make mistakes? Hell yes I do. I learn from them and try not to do it again.

You can believe what you want, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I gave up a long time ago being worried about what others think of me. I only worry about the things I personally can control.

[optilady1]

so much angst....maybe my glasses are rose-tinted but I still feel that there is something for everybody: high end, low end, on-line, mid range....there seems to be enough business in the industry to go around for everyone in whatver niche they are in

+1

[MarySue]

There is no sure way of knowing that the on-line businesses are good or bad, as the only time anyone sees someone who purchased a pair is when they've gotten a bad pair. That's like calling all Christians Catholic or all politicians Republican. It is false logic.

Do I make mistakes? Hell yes I do. I learn from them and try not to do it again.

You can believe what you want, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I gave up a long time ago being worried about what others think of me. I only worry about the things I personally can control.

Mike I hope you keep doing exactly what you do. When someone has an accident and loses an eye or cornea or slices their iris open, I'll be waiting to hear what the payout is ... Personally I would find it extremely difficult to fit glass - especially knowing how multi-coatings adhere, and how much of the transparency is lost in crown glass without one.

I don't think you're evil, you're exactly what a good optician requires for competition. Someone passionate about what they do. You've ticked all the boxes.

It's like Harry says - it's extremely unprofessional to say "we do this better than everyone ... oh and by the way anyone who doesn't do it exactly like me is an idiot"

But my feeling is you should go with your gut on this. Be how you want to be. It makes it easier for people like myself to differentiate my service and care from yours.

So ... from the depths of my Amerikiwi heart - thanks!

[MikeAurelius]

-smile-

I was wondering when the "liability" issue would be brought up...

Awhile back, I made a challenge to everyone when we were discussing the pros and cons of glass lenses, to present a list of all known eye injuries from broken lenses from the 1950's (about when OSHA and others started keeping track of such things) through about 1980, then in decades for the 80's, 90's, 2000's. The latter to see if there was any fall off in eye injuries from broken lenses. To date, no such list has been presented.

Glass was all anyone wore up until sometime in the mid 1970's. Were people afraid of glass lenses breaking back then? No. Were the standards for safety tough back then? Yes. They are even tougher now, even though there is a movement afoot here in the US to loosen those standards somewhat.

Show me the number of legal cases where a manufacturer/lab/optician/doctor was found guilty of negligence by dispensing glass lenses. Are there any? Presumably there are, but it has to be a very small number, my insurance agent could find a single one nor could the underwriters. The teachers in the schools for optometry and opticianry are full of dire warnings about glass, but the facts prove otherwise.

It was a nice try, but I don't buy it.

(I don't quite recall ever saying the quote that you refer from Harry...)

[HarryChiling]

New and improved!

Posted by mikeaurelius on September 4, 2010
August was a very interesting month for us at Aura Visual Concepts. First, we got rid of some very old equipment that we no longer used, which freed up a lot of floor space which allowed us to restructure the work flow in the factory. Then we acquired a new optical curve generator (the machine that grinds the lenses to make a prescription lens) – it is a computer controlled 3 axis CNC machine that cuts extremely accurate curves. This machine has already allowed us to make lenses that before were way out of our capability with the existing equipment we had.
And now, we are pleased to announce that we are now providing regular prescription eyewear, made of glass. Many people have told us that it is getting increasingly difficult to find a source for glass prescription lenses, so, with our new equipment, we made the decision to open up our product line and offer full prescription services.
Our new website: http://www.glassesfromglass.com offers the visitor the option of putting glass lenses in their own frames or in a frame that we supply (and at last count, the number of frames we offer is well over 100). Over the next couple of weeks, we will be expanding the product line to offer sunglasses and safety eyewear as well, all with glass lenses.

You've said a few times now that the GFG site is not yours. Here is an excerpt from your blog. You just got in a 3 axis generator, seems like your really getting with the times. I'll check back in with you 20 years from know when your offering this new latest generation plastic lenses.

[MikeAurelius]

The coatings issue is amusing too.

According to my coating lab, coatings of any kind "stick" to glass far better than any other optical material. Presumably its because glass has been around a lot longer than the polymer/monomers, and the techniques have been perfected long ago. Perhaps you've had problems with a coating facility that doesn't run much glass.

And transmission??? LMAO!!!!! Uncoated glass transmits about 92%. High end plastic/polymers transmit, what? 94%? 96%? Are you seriously (and with a straight face) trying to tell me that any given patient is going to tell the difference between two lenses having similar abbe numbers of a couple of percentage points of transmission? Pull the other one!

[MikeAurelius]

You've said a few times now that the GFG site is not yours. Here is an excerpt from your blog. You just got in a 3 axis generator, seems like your really getting with the times. I'll check back in with you 20 years from know when your offering this new latest generation plastic lenses.

That's right Harry, it's not mine. The blog you are quoting from is mine however, and the post you are referencing is directed towards my glassworking friends and customers. Why shouldn't I take the opportunity to push some business towards people I know and like? Don't you refer people to your friends?

And I don't plan on EVER working plastic of any kind.

(your sarcasm btw, doesn't work on me)

[MichaelP]

You have been very secretive about your place of employment in past threads and even now when you post on a topic where you have a conflict of interest you don't dislose certain facts, this to me indicates you can not be trusted. You mentioned a poster Barry S., over the past years I have watched magazines and writers twist and distort their interviews with him. I remember at one point that he was pro online vending and still probably is in the closet about it, but the model he practices with highly accurate eyewear and patient service just doesn't fit online.

Fair criticism. I'm still not going to disclose which company I work for, and I guess if that means I'm untrustworthy to you, than so be it. My reasoning is this though: as soon as I name my company, my comments become things to attack me & my company with, and not stand on their own merit. I'd just rather not for now.

Other than that, I don't mean to hide anything or otherwise fail to disclose any conflict of interest. When I posted in this thread, I did so with the understanding that everyone here knew I am an online retailer - my apologies if I should have made that more clear.

I also had no intention of distorting anything Barry has said, and I don't mean to speak for him. I was only referring to the response from others to comments he's made here, comparing it to drk's and Chris's responses earlier in this thread. Again, my apologies if you or anyone else felt I distorted what he has said in anyway.

You may act like you can provide better quality and service but when the entire house of cards is built on estimations and inaccuracies your only guage is how few get returned. I have seen some sites sellign eyewear out of China for $6.95 I would suspect that most people would rather throw them away then send them back and go through the hassle of a return. It is interestign that most of the eyewear vendors hang their hat on low prices, there is a reason for it, your not worth any more than what you sell your eyewear for. I have the luxury and many B and M stores have the luxury of offering more.

I (we) don't act like we can provide better quality and service. At most, we claim we can provide the same quality. I think it's clear we don't provide the same service - there's no trying on, there's no adjustment, there's no personalized frame recommendations. Our customers need to learn a lot more about their prescription than they probably want to. It's just plain harder.

We compete on price, because that's our market - the people going to Costco or Walmart or America's Best, who don't want the latest lens technology or trendy brand name frames. The people who, in my opinion, have been overcharged by Lenscrafters and their ilk in the past. Who have relatively simple prescriptions.

You're right that $6.95 glasses would probably just be thrown away instead of returned (by the way, Walmart sells frames as cheap as $9). Our average sale is around $75 though, and we sell plenty of $200+ pairs. And returns are not the only metric of satisfaction. I speak with customers every day about their glasses, we follow up after their purchase to make sure they are happy, and we see many repeat customers and referrals. You're not going to convince me that our customers are somehow secretly unhappy en masse, because it's not true.

But, since you asked about customer complaints (although I don't think there's anything wrong or misleading with publishing testimonials - don't you put letters from happy customers on your wall? Do you also hang up the complaints?), I went through and grabbed all of our most recent complaints:

HI, I received my glasses last Tuesday and I really love the way they look.
I don't know why, but the bifocals are not working out for me and I'm afraid I have to return them. The vision feels distorted with them and things look fuzzy if I'm using the distance part of them. The single vision I have no problem with. I have worn progressives before and didn't have this problem.

Hi, I am returning the glasses. Very disappointed in the quality of your "thin" lenses. I find them very thick with significant side vision distortion.
Please process a refund
thanks

I just received my glasses. They look great and the prescription ios accurate. However, I selected a gray tint (see below) to use them as sunglasses, and the lenses ARE NOT tinted. Please advise.

Hi,

I received my glasses, but have an issue and would like to know what the best course of action would be.

They are fine, but I see 'funny' through them. We finally figured out that I was originally given the wrong PD #, and that's probably why. When I called to ask for it the first time, they told me it was 67.5; I asked what would it be if I cannot do half-numbers and was told 68. Today I called again to make sure the prescription I had matched their records, and asked for the PD # again also. They now tell me it's 62.5, and assure me this time they're right. They believe that's my problem with these glasses.

I understand what was made is what I ordered, so what I'd like to know if I can return these and order new lenses but use the same frame. Or, if I were to order a second pair, must I use the exact same specifications as the ones I already have, or can I order the new ones with the corrected number and still take advantage of the discount?

Thanks for your help!

Thanks for your email. I did measure the PD myself, but checked it twice and thought I had measured correctly. I did move the glasses around on my eyes to see if perhaps they were not sitting high enough or low enough on my eyes for the best vision, but it still seemed off. Distance was probably best but it seems that everything got fuzzier near the edges of the lenses.
I am sending the glasses back today. I know progressive glasses are harder to do and I have been very pleased with the pair I have had for a few years. Your glasses were much better prices, and as I said the frame was fun, but I think I am just going to go back to the local store where I got my first progressive pair. I do appreciate your service and ability to return. I will keep you in mind for my kids and husband who just wear single vision lenses.

Ok, and now the stats:

• Those are the only complaints (5) out of approximately 300 orders for the time period covered. That's 1.6%.
• Those are the only negative comments out of slightly over 100 customer emails or calls over the same time period.
• Average sale price over that time period was $78
• Every single one of those customers received a prompt and full refund.

My point is, online sales of eyewear are a viable option for many people that serve a certain segment of the market - a segment that practices like Barry's, drk's, yours or many other independents here don't have an interest in serving - the cheap, budget customer.

I agree with your comments about certain online sellers using language to imply that opticians are somehow ripping their customers off. But, before you go throwing stones, some opticians are guilty of the reverse: claiming that all online sellers sell shoddy, unsafe product sourced from sweatshop labs in China that will always be poor quality. That's just not true.

Ideally, I see this happening: online retailers continue to take market share from the chain opticals and the discount stores, and that segment of the market that is willing to forgo some quality and service for cheaper prices gets a better deal. Independents continue to differentiate based on superior service and quality. They stop giving out free P.D.'s and adjustments and repairs other than to those who bought from them. They also educate patients more on what exactly they're paying for: both the glasses themselves as well as the professional service. Some type of industry body or group comes up with guidelines for prescriptions which should not be filled over the internet because estimates just won't cut it. Offshore companies (i.e., Chinese labs) importing directly into the U.S. are at least regulated the same as U.S. based labs in terms of ANSI standards, or if we want to be more protectionist are prevented all together from importing finished pairs directly if the standards can't be enforced.

Ok, I realize this post is very long now and a little meandering. I just want to reiterate I have a lot of respect for skilled opticians. But there are lots of unskilled opticians and just plain ol' sales people too. There's a place for online sales I believe, and the quality can and often is there. Our customers are happy and they can see. Isn't that the whole point?

[HarryChiling]

(I don't quite recall ever saying the quote that you refer from Harry...)

No sweat here you go:

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...l=1#post360895

In over 25 years of making eyewear, I can still count on the fingers of one hand how many POF's I've broken (and I don't have to use more than 3).

That's right Harry, it's not mine. The blog you are quoting from is mine however, and the post you are referencing is directed towards my glassworking friends and customers. Why shouldn't I take the opportunity to push some business towards people I know and like? Don't you refer people to your friends?

And I don't plan on EVER working plastic of any kind.

(your sarcasm btw, doesn't work on me)

Oh, I understand now you lied to your customers and friends by saying the new business is yours, not to me about it not being yours. I don't see how you don't get the lack of trust when your statements are contradicting at any point you could take responsibility for your words but you don't. I was honestly thinking you would come back with that must be another Mike Aurelius so I did underestimate you but not by much.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Here is a .pdf that quantifies different penetrating eye injusries.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00065-0099.pdf

Here's an excerpt:

Fewer than 10 percent of those injured in any
setting were wearing any type of eyeglasses or
goggles at the time of the injury; only 1.5 percent
were wearing safety eye wear (figure 3). The
highest proportion of injured persons wearing
safety eye wear was reported among those with
occupational injuries. For persons sustaining eye
injuries despite wearing eyeglasses or safety eye
wear, the causes of eye wear protection failure
included broken frames, shattered lenses, and ob-
jects passing behind or beside the eye wear. Among
45 injured persons whose nonsafety glasses shat-
tered at the time of injury, a glass or plastic object
was recorded as a cause of injury in 16 cases,
suggesting that a shattered lens may have contrib-
uted to the injury. It is not possible to estimate the
number of eye injuries prevented among persons
exposed to potential injury while wearing protective
eye wear.

Note that it does not differentiate between glass and plastic lenses, but does state there have been instances of glass damage.

[HarryChiling]

Fair criticism. I'm still not going to disclose which company I work for, and I guess if that means I'm untrustworthy to you, than so be it. My reasoning is this though: as soon as I name my company, my comments become things to attack me & my company with, and not stand on their own merit. I'd just rather not for now.

Fair enough but then you have to understand your numbers and everything that can't be verified is just an imaginary widget to me.

Other than that, I don't mean to hide anything or otherwise fail to disclose any conflict of interest. When I posted in this thread, I did so with the understanding that everyone here knew I am an online retailer - my apologies if I should have made that more clear.

I didn't remember that you were an online vendor until Chris mentioned it.

I also had no intention of distorting anything Barry has said, and I don't mean to speak for him. I was only referring to the response from others to comments he's made here, comparing it to drk's and Chris's responses earlier in this thread. Again, my apologies if you or anyone else felt I distorted what he has said in anyway.

Iwon't speak for Barry if you won't but I don't recall any earlier posts bringing his name into this thread.

I (we) don't act like we can provide better quality and service. At most, we claim we can provide the same quality. I think it's clear we don't provide the same service - there's no trying on, there's no adjustment, there's no personalized frame recommendations. Our customers need to learn a lot more about their prescription than they probably want to. It's just plain harder.

That sounds great on this site, but I suspect that this information isn't made clear on your sales site. This is a pet peeve of mine, I have even seen people looking for extereme prescription sites and some of the companies will even take prescriptions outside of the range that is available through their websites if they are contacted. It's all just a widget to be sold it seems and the traditional opticians doesn't look at it this way so the online venue is going to change the way business is done in this industry and the result won't be a better product.

We compete on price, because that's our market - the people going to Costco or Walmart or America's Best, who don't want the latest lens technology or trendy brand name frames. The people who, in my opinion, have been overcharged by Lenscrafters and their ilk in the past. Who have relatively simple prescriptions.

I understand that LC and certain retailers are priced high. The average independent is not, this is from my experiences travelling to offices throughout MD and DC.

You're right that $6.95 glasses would probably just be thrown away instead of returned (by the way, Walmart sells frames as cheap as $9). Our average sale is around $75 though, and we sell plenty of $200+ pairs. And returns are not the only metric of satisfaction. I speak with customers every day about their glasses, we follow up after their purchase to make sure they are happy, and we see many repeat customers and referrals. You're not going to convince me that our customers are somehow secretly unhappy en masse, because it's not true.

It's not a good feeling having someone talk about your business model, I'll get more into that in a bit.

But, since you asked about customer complaints (although I don't think there's anything wrong or misleading with publishing testimonials - don't you put letters from happy customers on your wall? Do you also hang up the complaints?), I went through and grabbed all of our most recent complaints:

Ok, and now the stats:

• Those are the only complaints (5) out of approximately 300 orders for the time period covered. That's 1.6%.
• Those are the only negative comments out of slightly over 100 customer emails or calls over the same time period.
• Average sale price over that time period was $78
• Every single one of those customers received a prompt and full refund.

No way to verify any of that.

[quote]
My point is, online sales of eyewear are a viable option for many people that serve a certain segment of the market - a segment that practices like Barry's, drk's, yours or many other independents here don't have an interest in serving - the cheap, budget customer.[quote]

Those customers are being served by B and M shops like the ones you mentioned Amer Best and Walmart, the difference is that they are not sending their customers into independent offices to take measurements and service their eyewear. Again look back at my post with numerous examples the majority of the sites even the more legitamate ones use some sort of deception in the process and most make the B and M shop out to be a thief and crokked in their dealings.

[quote]
I agree with your comments about certain online sellers using language to imply that opticians are somehow ripping their customers off. But, before you go throwing stones, some opticians are guilty of the reverse: claiming that all online sellers sell shoddy, unsafe product sourced from sweatshop labs in China that will always be poor quality. That's just not true.[quote]

Onliners drew first blood, and there is no way fro me to verify that products are not coming from China. I am as guilty if not mroe guilty than most of that claim since that was the first thing I told every patient that suggested a purchase online. Of course this came after many customers screaming at me that I owed them their PD because some here today gone tommorw website said so.

Ideally, I see this happening: online retailers continue to take market share from the chain opticals and the discount stores, and that segment of the market that is willing to forgo some quality and service for cheaper prices gets a better deal.

I don't see that as ideal.

Independents continue to differentiate based on superior service and quality.

I would personally add value to that as well, but you probably can't see that value given your model.

They stop giving out free P.D.'s and adjustments and repairs other than to those who bought from them. They also educate patients more on what exactly they're paying for: both the glasses themselves as well as the professional service.

I don't see a huge disparity in price between most of the sites when we compare apples to apples. I wrote an article fro ECP magazine a few years back and the savings was between $50 and $80 depending on the frame. The real differences came in the quality offered. Many of the online vendors are not comparing apples to apples. I have never worked in an office that had the same $6.95 frames so I have nothign in my store to compare that to, but to compare those $6.95 glasses to somethign that came from our store would have been a fallacy. compared our prices to FD a few years back for that article and foudn that in most cases we were withing $50 of their price and in some cases we were less ont he same brands.

Some type of industry body or group comes up with guidelines for prescriptions which should not be filled over the internet because estimates just won't cut it. Offshore companies (i.e., Chinese labs) importing directly into the U.S. are at least regulated the same as U.S. based labs in terms of ANSI standards, or if we want to be more protectionist are prevented all together from importing finished pairs directly if the standards can't be enforced.

I have a pair of eyewear that has distorted lenses from an onliner who shipped them to me from China, I checked everything about them and they are inferior, I was hoping to find lead and other chemicals but sadly did not.

Ok, I realize this post is very long now and a little meandering. I just want to reiterate I have a lot of respect for skilled opticians. But there are lots of unskilled opticians and just plain ol' sales people too. There's a place for online sales I believe, and the quality can and often is there. Our customers are happy and they can see. Isn't that the whole point?

Yes a problem with just anybody sellign eyewear exists and has been glanced over for years. Everytime a reporter does a piece on accuracy of eyewear the large majority fail to the most laxed ANSI standards to date. Throwing fuel ont he fire is not helping that's exploiting a situation that many hav recognized is wrong.

I do appreciate your ability to have a discussion on the subject. I don't agree with your method of business but I think the discussion is necessary.

[MarySue]

The coatings issue is amusing too.

According to my coating lab, coatings of any kind "stick" to glass far better than any other optical material. Presumably its because glass has been around a lot longer than the polymer/monomers, and the techniques have been perfected long ago. Perhaps you've had problems with a coating facility that doesn't run much glass.

And transmission??? LMAO!!!!! Uncoated glass transmits about 92%. High end plastic/polymers transmit, what? 94%? 96%? Are you seriously (and with a straight face) trying to tell me that any given patient is going to tell the difference between two lenses having similar abbe numbers of a couple of percentage points of transmission? Pull the other one!

Yes Mike - I am serious - I am so serious, that if I were anything but human, I might be a heart attack, an alien invasion, another world war ...

seriously - you're welcome to your opinion, and your report is over 9 years old.

[NeGlassesGirl27]

I like kittens.

[MikeAurelius]

No sweat here you go:

http://www.optiboard.com/forums/show...l=1#post360895

So, where did I say ""we do this better than everyone ... oh and by the way anyone who doesn't do it exactly like me is an idiot" I didn't see that anywhere in that link.

Oh, I understand now you lied to your customers and friends by saying the new business is yours, not to me about it not being yours. I don't see how you don't get the lack of trust when your statements are contradicting at any point you could take responsibility for your words but you don't. I was honestly thinking you would come back with that must be another Mike Aurelius so I did underestimate you but not by much.

You raise a fair point.

Look at the wording here: "And now, we are pleased to announce that we are now providing regular prescription eyewear, made of glass. Many people have told us that it is getting increasingly difficult to find a source for glass prescription lenses, so, with our new equipment, we made the decision to open up our product line and offer full prescription services."

and here: "Our new website: http://www.glassesfromglass.com offers the visitor the option of putting glass lenses in their own frames or in a frame that we supply (and at last count, the number of frames we offer is well over 100). Over the next couple of weeks, we will be expanding the product line to offer sunglasses and safety eyewear as well, all with glass lenses."

Please note the "WE" and "OUR". Not ME, not I. The investors in AVC looked for a way to increase our production, to make use of the equipment we have. They (the investors) decided to tap into the on-line market specifically for glass.

I don't lie to my friends or my customers. I don't lie period. I dislike your implication that I would do such a thing, but I guess that when you hate what somebody does, all's fair, right?

[drk]

A professional: someone who gets paid for their time. An expert, who gives advice and help. Is usually fee-for-service. Has a degree, certifications, qualifications, etc. Puts the client's needs first, and remuneration second.

A salesman: Caveat emptor.

For those here, would you go to an attorney who is trying to sell you a trust that you don't need? A financial planner that makes money based on how many times you transact? A physician who is profit-motivated?

Clearly there are two separate classes here on Optiboard. It takes time to sort them out.

[MikeAurelius]

A professional: someone who gets paid for their time. An expert, who gives advice and help. Is usually fee-for-service. Has a degree, certifications, qualifications, etc. Puts the client's needs first, and remuneration second.

I fit both classes. I have a Bachelor of Science in Private/Professional Accounting. I've got 30+ years of lab surfacing background both as a production worker and a manager. I'd probably pass any certification test with ease in Minnesota if one were required.

Oh, I'm sorry! You were saying??? *rolls eyes*

When you start laying out requirements, you better be sure that *everyone* fits into them. There are about 12 independant and chain dispensaries here in St. Cloud Minnesota. I visit them regularly. Want to know how many of them are certifed (much less qualified)? Less than you'd think. 1 to 2 in each store, with an average of 4-5 "opticians" in each store.

Be careful what you wish for.

[MikeAurelius]

A professional: someone who gets paid for their time. An expert, who gives advice and help. Is usually fee-for-service. Has a degree, certifications, qualifications, etc. Puts the client's needs first, and remuneration second.

A salesman: Caveat emptor.

For those here, would you go to an attorney who is trying to sell you a trust that you don't need? A financial planner that makes money based on how many times you transact? A physician who is profit-motivated?

Clearly there are two separate classes here on Optiboard. It takes time to sort them out.

BTW, something you wrote the other day got me to thinking...I think it might have been in the post that was deleted by Steve. You wrote that the FTC didn't anticipate on-line sales when they came out with Eyewear I and II...which makes me wonder...are you one of "those" optometrists who makes their patients jump through hoops to get their prescriptions from you?

[Jana Lewis]

BTW, something you wrote the other day got me to thinking...I think it might have been in the post that was deleted by Steve. You wrote that the FTC didn't anticipate on-line sales when they came out with Eyewear I and II...which makes me wonder...are you one of "those" optometrists who makes their patients jump through hoops to get their prescriptions from you?

Are you suggesting that DRK skirts the law?

[hcjilson]

A professional: someone who gets paid for their time. An expert, who gives advice and help. Is usually fee-for-service. Has a degree, certifications, qualifications, etc. Puts the client's needs first, and remuneration second.

A salesman: Caveat emptor.

For those here, would you go to an attorney who is trying to sell you a trust that you don't need? A financial planner that makes money based on how many times you transact? A physician who is profit-motivated?

Clearly there are two separate classes here on Optiboard. It takes time to sort them out.

The statement above is correct, and certainly no reason to question the ethics of its author. We're eyecare professionals here. Let's act it!

[DFEC]

wow.... I think I need to call Rodney King into this... "cant we all just get along?"

[MikeAurelius]

Are you suggesting that DRK skirts the law?

It wasn't a suggestion, it was a question. Like the one's he's been asking me.