Edging

[swartgm]

Hello.

I am a small time boutique retailer of vintage fashion eyeglasses and goggles. We desire to manufacture replacement lenses. Roughly 5-10 pair each week.

Much of what we sell are refurbished safety glasses from the 1910-1960's. We do not sell them as safety glasses due to the liability and note as such. Willson, AO, Bausch, Welsh, Kings, etc. Noting this, we would like to manufacture them as close to original safety specs as possible using vintage stock. Possibly edging from rough cut flat edge round 50mm welding filter lenses.

We would like the ability to cut, crip, edge our own non-RX lenses. Beveling is a necessity. Most of our cuts will be round bevels. Never will we make RX.

Is the AIT Mark Five Deluxe Lens Bevel Edger a good machine for this purpose? We have the opportunity to get training, patterns and supplies through AIT in Chicago.

Thank you for your time. Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciated.

How much should we expect to pay for this machine well used?

Gary

[harry a saake]

If you are planning to sell these to the public, your first question should be , where do i find a good attorney, and an insurance agent that can sell you 5 million worth of liability that you can afford

[swartgm]

Please show goodwill. We do NOT sell them as safety glasses nor do we imply they meet any ANSI specs. We supply movie houses, the fashion industry, and hipsters. I do take your comments seriously. Maybe I should take them much more seriously but I would still like my questions answered if anyone could be that helpful.

In kind, does anyone know where we could purchase old stock beveled safety lenses 46mm-50mm rounds? Willson, AO, etc.

[shanbaum]

Hello.

I am a small time boutique retailer of vintage fashion eyeglasses and goggles. We desire to manufacture replacement lenses. Roughly 5-10 pair each week.

Much of what we sell are refurbished safety glasses from the 1910-1960's. We do not sell them as safety glasses due to the liability and note as such. Willson, AO, Bausch, Welsh, Kings, etc. Noting this, we would like to manufacture them as close to original safety specs as possible using vintage stock. Possibly edging from rough cut flat edge round 50mm welding filter lenses.

We would like the ability to cut, crip, edge our own non-RX lenses. Beveling is a necessity. Most of our cuts will be round bevels. Never will we make RX.

Is the AIT Mark Five Deluxe Lens Bevel Edger a good machine for this purpose? We have the opportunity to get training, patterns and supplies through AIT in Chicago.

Thank you for your time. Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciated.

How much should we expect to pay for this machine well used?

Gary

A Mark V is essentially worthless, and for good reason; while they can edge lenses, they do so only with coarse accuracy. Although you may be able to get one to work for the relatively simple task you describe, you should be able to find a vintage Weco (for example), which would be more accurate.

Back in the 60's, my father's lab had about 40 Mark IV's and V's. I learned to edge lenses on them. They were then, and are now, primitive.

By the way, you meant "cut and crib" which is unnecessary with any edger that uses diamond wheels, including the Mark V.

Of course, if part of what you're offering are specs made the old-fashioned way, then you should go find a scoring device, some cribbing pliers, and some AO Bevel-Matics (if you can find wheels!).

But skip the Mark V.

[swartgm]

Thank you. We have a good little business going. The only thing holding us back is lack of mint tinted lenses. Frames are easy for us to come by. We would love to purchase new old stock lenses but can't find any consistent source. We would secondly prefer to have them made for us but $60 a pair is far too high. Maybe I am not finding or contacting the right people.

Ideally we would partner with a small time operation on the side that could make these plano tinted beveled lenses for us at a reasonable cost. As you said, it seems that this is a simple task but one of which we have no knowledge.

We have a stock of clear but the people want tints as these are sold as sunglasses primarily. Could we tint them?

So many questions and possibilities seem open to us but we don't know what we don't know. We simply want lenses and are open to any options.

[shanbaum]

Why not try to find someone locally who is knowledgeable in this subject area to help you set this up and operate it? Edging plano lenses to round shapes is not a tremendous challenge. Anyone who has done Rx work could be helpful.

For that matter, someone who once worked at a mall where there's a Lenscrafters should be able to help.

OK, that's an exaggeration. But I would be surprised if you couldn't find someone to help, perhaps on a consulting basis. You might try some of the sellers of rebuilt finishing equipment; they would probably provide free advice.

[MikeAurelius]

I've sent you a PM.

[Chris Ryser]

We have a stock of clear but the people want tints as these are sold as sunglasses primarily. Could we tint them?

So many questions and possibilities seem open to us but we don't know what we don't know. We simply want lenses and are open to any options.

If you are willing to go for plastic lenses, today's solution, you would choose simple untreated CR39 lenses, have them cut and bevelled by a small lab, either by the hundreds, douzens or single pairs for very little money. Then you tint them yourself also for very little money.................and you are in business for small or large amounts.

Check it out at http://optochemicals.com

[Audiyoda]

Why not try to find someone locally who is knowledgeable in this subject area to help you set this up and operate it? Edging plano lenses to round shapes is not a tremendous challenge. Anyone who has done Rx work could be helpful.

For that matter, someone who once worked at a mall where there's a Lenscrafters should be able to help.

OK, that's an exaggeration. But I would be surprised if you couldn't find someone to help, perhaps on a consulting basis. You might try some of the sellers of rebuilt finishing equipment; they would probably provide free advice.

Being that the OP is from Michigan I can testify that there are maybe two or three decent labs in the area (as in the state) that would even half of what the OP is asking about. Most of the labs in this state are a joke - save for two that I personally have worked with and one that a friend recommends.

[Audiyoda]

Hello.

I am a small time boutique retailer of vintage fashion eyeglasses and goggles. We desire to manufacture replacement lenses. Roughly 5-10 pair each week.

Much of what we sell are refurbished safety glasses from the 1910-1960's. We do not sell them as safety glasses due to the liability and note as such. Willson, AO, Bausch, Welsh, Kings, etc. Noting this, we would like to manufacture them as close to original safety specs as possible using vintage stock. Possibly edging from rough cut flat edge round 50mm welding filter lenses.

We would like the ability to cut, crip, edge our own non-RX lenses. Beveling is a necessity. Most of our cuts will be round bevels. Never will we make RX.

Is the AIT Mark Five Deluxe Lens Bevel Edger a good machine for this purpose? We have the opportunity to get training, patterns and supplies through AIT in Chicago.

Thank you for your time. Any direction or advice would be greatly appreciated.

How much should we expect to pay for this machine well used?

Gary

Gary please keep in mind that MIOSHA will not take kindly to your selling safety eyewear if they are or were marked as safety eyewear. Even with a disclosure agreement between you and the buyer. If it's marked or was marked MIOSHA will require those pairs to comply with current standards.

I say this because a friend here in Grand Rapids supplied a film company with a vintage 1950's safety frame for use in a film. MIOSHA showed up on a routine check of the production and discovered the pair in question. The lenses were not properly manufactured, marked, or beveled as a safety lens. Thankfully the production company behind the filming paid his fine.

[MikeAurelius]

Gary please keep in mind that MIOSHA will not take kindly to your selling safety eyewear if they are or were marked as safety eyewear. Even with a disclosure agreement between you and the buyer. If it's marked or was marked MIOSHA will require those pairs to comply with current standards.

I say this because a friend here in Grand Rapids supplied a film company with a vintage 1950's safety frame for use in a film. MIOSHA showed up on a routine check of the production and discovered the pair in question. The lenses were not properly manufactured, marked, or beveled as a safety lens. Thankfully the production company behind the filming paid his fine.

All it would take is an vibratory engraving pencil to obliterate the Z87 markings and *PRESTO* no longer a Z87 frame. Works on metal and plastic frames.

[scriptfiller]

Mike is that ethical? Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Taking the Blue Oval off my Ford 500 doesn't mean it's not a Ford anymore.

[Geirskogul]

Yes, but the regulation states frames MARKED as Z87, nothing about manufacture. So, if the marking is gone, it is recognized as no longer being safety, and is sold as something similar to a knockoff frame of the same style. In some states you can keep your old driver's license, but with a hole punched in it. It is recognized as being no longer valid, and nobody will accept it anymore. OSHA would check for a Z87 marking, and with no marking they no longer have control over its regulation.

The Z87 is more than just an identifier, like the blue Ford oval is. It's recognition that whatever is manufactured meets a certain standard, and is regulated. If I took your ford and put a chevy big block engine in it, it is no longer really a ford, and taking the marking off would identify as such. If I take a safety frame, make non-safety lenses in it, it is no longer a safety frame and the Z87 is removed to idenify it as such.

Now, saying all that, I still wouldn't do it, but I don't see any problems with it either.

[Audiyoda]

All it would take is an vibratory engraving pencil to obliterate the Z87 markings and *PRESTO* no longer a Z87 frame. Works on metal and plastic frames.

Yes, but the regulation states frames MARKED as Z87, nothing about manufacture. So, if the marking is gone, it is recognized as no longer being safety, and is sold as something similar to a knockoff frame of the same style. In some states you can keep your old driver's license, but with a hole punched in it. It is recognized as being no longer valid, and nobody will accept it anymore. OSHA would check for a Z87 marking, and with no marking they no longer have control over its regulation.

The Z87 is more than just an identifier, like the blue Ford oval is. It's recognition that whatever is manufactured meets a certain standard, and is regulated. If I took your ford and put a chevy big block engine in it, it is no longer really a ford, and taking the marking off would identify as such. If I take a safety frame, make non-safety lenses in it, it is no longer a safety frame and the Z87 is removed to idenify it as such.

Now, saying all that, I still wouldn't do it, but I don't see any problems with it either.

That's why I said MIOSHA - not OSHA. Michigan's Occupational Safety and Health Administration runs a bit of a tighter ship in terms of sold goods. It doesn't matter if the Z87 mark is removed - if the frame is in their database as a safety frame then it's still a safety frame.

[MikeAurelius]

Mike is that ethical? Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Taking the Blue Oval off my Ford 500 doesn't mean it's not a Ford anymore.

Ethical??? What does ethics have to do with it? They are taking an obsolete frame, that probably does NOT meet current Z87 standards and making it partly useful again. They are doing their 'due diligence' by informing the customer, so no harm, no foul.

And btw, I do this routinely with X-Ray spectacles. Some medical facilities require frames with side shields (and, no, not those flimsy slip on pieces of junk) to prevent splash injury from bodily fluids, so the only option is to use a Z87 frame. Since X-Ray glass cannot be hardened to meet Z87, the Z87 markings have to be removed. This has passed muster in all 50 states, and I also sell to some big safety houses like US Safety, they've had no problems, the big "E" has no problems, neither does the Hoya labs I work with.

What is the first thing you do when trying to determine if the frame is a safety frame? Look for the markings. If the markings are obliterated, it no longer meets Z87.

[Geirskogul]

That's why I said MIOSHA - not OSHA. Michigan's Occupational Safety and Health Administration runs a bit of a tighter ship in terms of sold goods. It doesn't matter if the Z87 mark is removed - if the frame is in their database as a safety frame then it's still a safety frame.

Then there go the frame markings as well. A frame that is unidentifiable is like a helmet without DOT certification markings: can't be used on the road (or, with the glasses, can't be used in the workplace) but can be owned for "novelty" purposes.

Are you saying it should be illegal to own a non-marked prevous-safety frame? That's a bit overbearing, isn't it? And I'm a democrat.

[Speed]

Most of the labs in this state are a joke - .

That is what they said about you.

[Speed]

Why not try to find someone locally who is knowledgeable in this subject area to help you set this up and operate it? Edging plano lenses to round shapes is not a tremendous challenge. Anyone who has done Rx work could be helpful.

For that matter, someone who once worked at a mall where there's a Lenscrafters should be able to help.

OK, that's an exaggeration. But I would be surprised if you couldn't find someone to help, perhaps on a consulting basis. You might try some of the sellers of rebuilt finishing equipment; they would probably provide free advice.

That is very good advice. Also the legal advice from harry Saake. You must be very careful of any markings on the frames. When I get request from customer wishing to use their old safety frames, I would not do them unless I could remove the z-87 from all three componets. I would also make the lenses to safety specs as well, just no etching. You got to be careful. If you are selling "vintage retired safety" frames as that, regardless of markings, your cheeks are very shiney and in the wind.

[Audiyoda]

That is what they said about you.

Excuse you?

And I know you how?

There are a total of two labs in Michigan that I trust to get the job done correctly, on time, and at a reasonable cost. If you know of one let me know - I'll gladly send a few jobs their way to see just how good they are.

And the next time you'd like to make a personal swipe at me, think better of it.

[Speed]

Excuse you?

And I know you how?

There are a total of two labs in Michigan that I trust to get the job done correctly, on time, and at a reasonable cost. If you know of one let me know - I'll gladly send a few jobs their way to see just how good they are.

And the next time you'd like to make a personal swipe at me, think better of it.

Thanks for excusing me. You take a swipe at labs in Michigan. That covers a lot of persons Dude. You really should think better of that yourself. Burning bridges and all. And yes, I have had discussions about your personallity problems with trusted friends. Good luck.

[Dave Metzger]

Hey Mike, I think he wants your stash of Calobar B

[MikeAurelius]

LOL Dave!! I've got an armed guard standing outside the warehouse 24/7/365.

[Audiyoda]

Thanks for excusing me. You take a swipe at labs in Michigan. That covers a lot of persons Dude. You really should think better of that yourself. Burning bridges and all. And yes, I have had discussions about your personallity problems with trusted friends. Good luck.

As I said, you find me a lab here in Michigan I've not used and I'll gladly send them some work - see if their work is up to snuff. Considering I've used just about all of them, I doubt you'll find one that will satisfy my standards.

And I don't see it as burning any bridges - there are two labs here I'm very happy with. It's the other labs that have burned bridges by hiring staff by the lowest common denominator (ie...minimum wage). I'm not the only optician here in Michigan that sees things this way - but there are plenty around here that think I'm crazy and they're happy with what they get. To each his/her own - my choice it to use a lab that will return jobs to me that I don't have to worry about (I still double check them out of habit). I look at each job this way: would I want my Mother to wear the pair in front of me? I don't think it's too much to ask for a quality pair of eyewear that meets ANSI Z80.1-2005 standards and looks good doing it.

But you certainly seem to think you know me or at least know a lot about me - I doubt either.