Alternate Essilor Products

[emloray]

Ok Gang--
Our Doctor(my boss whom I worked for for 20 years) would like me to concentrate on doing business with "Non-Essilor owned" labs. He wants me to concentrate more on privately owned labs. We have through the years done very well dispensing all the Essilor lenses, Varilux, Physio 360's etc.
He doesn't want me to totally withdraw from the Essilor owned labs but to gradually steer work away from them to some great alternate progressives.

So what are some good to great alternates for progressives? Zeiss? Seiko? What are your thoughts.
How about AR's we're almost 90% crizal AR!!

Appreciate hearing from you,

emloray

[gunner05]

Hoya.

[jefe]

Seiko/Pentax, Rodenstock, Zeiss. I use a lot of Shamir -- which I understand is now half owned by Essilor.

[jefe]

Oh, you may also consider the Nikon PALs sold by Encore in South Windsor, CT. While I don't use them, I've been told they're good.

[For-Life]

Nikon is in partnership with Essilor

[DanLiv]

Our practice is almost exclusively Varilux, has been successfully for 20 years, and we use a single great Essilor partner lab for almost all our work. From time to time I experiment with different lenses and labs just to stay aware of what's out there (it's hard not to when reps want business so bad they throw free fits and lab credit at you). I tried some Pentax and Shamir, and it turned out very poorly with near 50% non-adapts. I went back to Varilux.

I just spent six weeks dispensing only Zeiss; GT2s, 3DVs, and a few Individuals. I was surprised to get 100% successful fits and pt satisfaction, and I was very happy with the product (especially Purecoat, I like it better than Avance. Sapphire will probably take care of that though). Plus, at least in my territory (Colorado), Zeiss is marketing very aggressively and offered really great prices for really great product. Zeiss labs offer a huge discount through Vision West too, though like most labs they will probably give to you same (or better) deal directly.

In the end our lab and Essilor rep got together and put together an irresistable deal for us so we are sticking with our favorite lab and Essilor. However, if we did switch I would not hesitate to go with Zeiss.

I think the failures on my other trials are not because they product is inferior, but because our patient base (and the US in general) is so used to Essilor progressive design it is hard to ween them off it. If I have been fitting a patient annually and successfully with Varilux lenses for 10 years, the chance he will balk at a radical new design is pretty good. I was expecting some resistance to the "harder" Zeiss designs, but was very happy to get zero rejection. I also did not get any "wows", even going from a traditional Physio to a Zeiss Individual, but that's ok. I wasn't expecting it.

[Geirskogul]

You could also go with some SOLA products - Teflon AR isn't that bad, but it is an adaptation with their smaller (but more focused) product line.

[blinkvelo]

let me ask What is the goal behind not doing business with Essilor Owned labs? Does this mean only 100% owned and not partner with private investment? Are you looking for privately owned lab(s) and or non-megacorporate product? Are you to stop dispensing Varilux and/or Essilor product almost completely?
IMO Hoya is very corporate and not friendly to privately owned labs. Zeiss is your biggest competition by direct selling and deep discounting to mass merchants.
Will you fully support the Independent lens brands sold through privately owned labs?
Do you rely on strong brand names for your primary frames? Will you also give up those "corporate" brands and go with smaller privately owned frame companies?
You can get some great AR if the lab you use has a fully dedicated 2-3 million dollar AR Room for there house brands.
Tell me the Dr uses the local coffee shop, TV/Electronics dealer and isn't a Cosco or sams club user. Right?

[MasterCrafter]

Hoya.

Yup... Right now im convinced that Hoya progressives are the best or just as good as any lens out there. Thier AR coatings are better than Essilors IMO

Thier labs can be a bit pricey though. But you get what you pay for.

Thier Amplitude/Amplitude Mini series of progressives is a cheaper way to go with them without sacrificing quality

[MasterCrafter]

let me ask What is the goal behind not doing business with Essilor Owned labs? Does this mean only 100% owned and not partner with private investment? Are you looking for privately owned lab(s) and or non-megacorporate product? Are you to stop dispensing Varilux and/or Essilor product almost completely?
IMO Hoya is very corporate and not friendly to privately owned labs. Zeiss is your biggest competition by direct selling and deep discounting to mass merchants.
Will you fully support the Independent lens brands sold through privately owned labs?
Do you rely on strong brand names for your primary frames? Will you also give up those "corporate" brands and go with smaller privately owned frame companies?
You can get some great AR if the lab you use has a fully dedicated 2-3 million dollar AR Room for there house brands.
Tell me the Dr uses the local coffee shop, TV/Electronics dealer and isn't a Cosco or sams club user. Right?

I hear what your syaing , BUT

At least at Sams club you can choose between many different products. The way Essilor keeps going there will be no choice. We will all be using Essilor products or services when its all said and done. Have you ever heard of a Monopoly?

[Speed]

Ok Gang--
Our Doctor(my boss whom I worked for for 20 years) would like me to concentrate on doing business with "Non-Essilor owned" labs. He wants me to concentrate more on privately owned labs. We have through the years done very well dispensing all the Essilor lenses, Varilux, Physio 360's etc.
He doesn't want me to totally withdraw from the Essilor owned labs but to gradually steer work away from them to some great alternate progressives.

So what are some good to great alternates for progressives? Zeiss? Seiko? What are your thoughts.
How about AR's we're almost 90% crizal AR!!

Appreciate hearing from you,

emloray

You should tell your boss the cows have already all escaped. Even trying to gradually steer away, you will likely be drawn more and more under the big E's control. Even many of the so called independant labs have big E owned software systems that give them total access to all information, including your name and all account information.

[Judy Canty]

Seiko...only available through independent wholesale labs.

[gunner05]

I hear what your syaing , BUT

At least at Sams club you can choose between many different products. The way Essilor keeps going there will be no choice. We will all be using Essilor products or services when its all said and done. Have you ever heard of a Monopoly?

Actually, Sam's/Walmart use essilor for the majority of their jobs.

And walmart sells seiko, so have fun competing with that monster.

[MasterCrafter]

Actually, Sam's/Walmart use essilor for the majority of their jobs.

And walmart sells seiko, so have fun competing with that monster.

Ohh.. i must clarify. I was using sams club as an example of different products(non optical) to make a point.

But i learn something everyday... i did not realize that walmart used alot of Essilor products

[Lee Prewitt]

iCoat for all your independant needs!

FreeForm = Inscribe
AR = Vivix, Stainless, or Aura
Not a partner lab
Cool rep if I do say so myself ;)

[Iroc]

I'm sure most offices, both indepedent & chain, use Essilor products somewhere. Personally, I've primarily used Varilux brand progressives with great success. I've ventured off this path & have tried the Individual & Hoyalux ID but neither impressed me so much that I would quit using Varilux. I also found Avance to be better than Zeiss's Purecoat, atleast in the hyrophobic arena as there's definetely more effort required to wipe their lens than Avance. Is it just me or does Sapphire not differ much from Avance, other than the blue reflex? which I find clashes more with frame colors. What I would like to know is if there are any independently funded studies done comparing progressives. I've gotten my hands on a few, however they were done by Essilor so not exactly sure how "true" these are.

[eyemanflying]

Nikon is in partnership with Essilor

Partnership? Wrong...Nikon is a subsidiary owned by Essilor.

[eyemanflying]

Ohh.. i must clarify. I was using sams club as an example of different products(non optical) to make a point.

But i learn something everyday... i did not realize that walmart used alot of Essilor products

Wal-Mart is 90% supplied by Essilor (or a division owned by Essilor to create some distance).

[HarryChiling]

What I would like to know is if there are any independently funded studies done comparing progressives. I've gotten my hands on a few, however they were done by Essilor so not exactly sure how "true" these are.

Dr Sheedy had a paper a few years back where he objectively compared PALs.

[sharpstick777]

Nikon is in partnership with Essilor

Many of the lenses that roll offer the Essilor line in Dallas get shipped to Canada with a Nikon brand, only the envelop changes.

[Geirskogul]

We run a completely Essilor-Free business, but if you go completely E-free then you tend to get drawn under another corporate umbrella . FOr us, it's Zeiss - though we are very happy with their products.

[Audiyoda]

iCoat or Ice-Tech - while I've personally never used either lab I know opticians that have and they have a few steps up on Hoya, Seiko, Sola-Zeiss et al...

1 - True freeform (front/back) PAL that won't break the bank at the same time
2 - Amazing turnaround times
3 - Killer AR that also won't break the bank.

I know plenty of people here in these forums love Allen @ Ice-Tech and iCoat always gets thumbs up from users as well. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Now of you want a lab that can give you your Essilor fix along with plenty of other high quality products, I'd look seriously at Luzerne Optical Lab.

[gunner05]

I'm sure most offices, both indepedent & chain, use Essilor products somewhere. Personally, I've primarily used Varilux brand progressives with great success. I've ventured off this path & have tried the Individual & Hoyalux ID but neither impressed me so much that I would quit using Varilux. I also found Avance to be better than Zeiss's Purecoat, atleast in the hyrophobic arena as there's definetely more effort required to wipe their lens than Avance. Is it just me or does Sapphire not differ much from Avance, other than the blue reflex? which I find clashes more with frame colors. What I would like to know is if there are any independently funded studies done comparing progressives. I've gotten my hands on a few, however they were done by Essilor so not exactly sure how "true" these are.

I know I'm going to sound like a hoya homer here but... how in the heck do you like any of the varilux products over the iD???? And the individual, for that matter, it's a great lens. Those are both true freeforms compared to the *******ization of the term "free form" that essilor uses. Is physio enhanced a good lens? Of course. Is it free form? Not even close. Honestly, I would probably be tempted to put the new version of the iD, (mystyle) even above autograph II since it's dual surfaced and now includes the ability to add face form, panto, etc.

All politics aside, essilor does a great job at providing a good product with excellent marketing, but really, they provide nothing unique.

[emloray]

I want to thank you all for your responses definitely gave me something to think about.
Funny thing I called the independent lab we started doing business with and asked if they were using Essilor equipment they said, Oh No! but in the next breath replied they were an Essilor partner lab. The borg assimilates.................

emloray

[WFruit]

If they are a partner lab then they aren't independent........