When does a RX expire????????

[kws6000]

I've had countless experiences in the past where I or a coworker have filled an older Rx and a pt had come back saying "Something is not right" and it has nothing to do with my or their measurements.

In my experience I don't think it is too much to ask people to be refracted (especially if they have yearly benefits to utilize their exam coverage) before getting a new pair of glasses. Yes, your refraction may not have changed in 10+ years but you could have had a multitude of situations occur; There may have been ocular trauma, you may be diagnosed with diabetes, you may have had a stroke, you may have even changed your rx for other maladies. I like to have a much information as possible about the pt before I make a pair of glasses; otherwise I'm just as lazy as an online retailer.

I have seen numerous cases of greedy opticians getting burned that way....Around here ,a lot of opticals will fill any rx,regardless of its age and source,as well as fit contact lenses to anybody with an rx ,regardless of suitability...as long as they have the money....

[Geirskogul]

I don't know why Barry and others use the satirical argument of "oh your eyeglass rx is expired I'll go to your house and take all of your old glasses so you don't hurt yourself." I find nothing wrong with using an older Rx, but if the doctor has put an expiration date on there, I'm going to assume that he wants to update the refraction by that time. Most do it for money, but there is the occasional honest doctor that does it because the patient is a raging diabetic or something, and it could be outright dangerous to have them drive with the old rx.

If I were in Canada, someone came in with a 'no expiration date' spec rx from 15 - nay - 5 years go, I would be wary of filling it. It is legal, yes, but if the patient feels all gung-ho about getting their new -2.00 SPH Rx glasses and gets in a car wreck because they need -3.50 -1.00 x100, then I have a hunch the patient would want to blame me.

[kws6000]

I don't know why Barry and others use the satirical argument of "oh your eyeglass rx is expired I'll go to your house and take all of your old glasses so you don't hurt yourself." I find nothing wrong with using an older Rx, but if the doctor has put an expiration date on there, I'm going to assume that he wants to update the refraction by that time. Most do it for money, but there is the occasional honest doctor that does it because the patient is a raging diabetic or something, and it could be outright dangerous to have them drive with the old rx.

If I were in Canada, someone came in with a 'no expiration date' spec rx from 15 - nay - 5 years go, I would be wary of filling it. It is legal, yes, but if the patient feels all gung-ho about getting their new -2.00 SPH Rx glasses and gets in a car wreck because they need -3.50 -1.00 x100, then I have a hunch the patient would want to blame me.

But thats the advantage of being an optician...Big deal...so the customer blames you ....Other then that,what recourse does he or she have?

[Chris Ryser]

wow, a lot of words dedicated to "when does an Rx expire?". The answer is very simple: "it expires when you need a new one."

Nice, sweet and very logic

[Geirskogul]

But thats the advantage of being an optician...Big deal...so the customer blames you ....Other then that,what recourse does he or she have?

Have you taken a look at the United States' (il)legal system? It doesn't help that other countries are just gunning to copy it.

[kws6000]

Have you taken a look at the United States' (il)legal system? It doesn't help that other countries are just gunning to copy it.

Who wants to copy it?....Not Canada...

[Geirskogul]

Who wants to copy it?....Not Canada...

Not the Canadian people, no. Not the Canadian government itself. I'm talking lawyers, lobbyists, policymakers. There's too much money to be made for the rich in the US system, sadly.

[eye2]

I agree, using an outdated rx generally doesnt directly cause harm,with the exception of allowing the patient to sidestep an exam which could detect sight threatening conditions....(which opticians generally dont concern themselves with... )

I can see the appeal of being a "site testing optician"....generate rx's in house...bag the sale...and no concern or responsibility wrt eye health...or having to worry about so called ethics or a pesky college overseeing your activities to protect the public....




The rx expiration is essentially stating that past that date, the numbers arent considered to be accurate ,and are to be used at your own risk...

REALLY! So if I have a patient come in and as I'm talking to them they state there rx seems fine, I can just ignore where it says expired and just fill it? Are you kidding me? How many pharmacists would be put in jail for doing expired rx's. And what if you filled an expired rx and the person ends up with a bad case of corneal edema because the fit changed? Come on OD are you serious! :hammer:

[chip anderson]

1) Rx expires whenever your board of optometry has convinced the legislature it should expire for the good of public safety. Public safety not really being the motivation behind such edicts, but it's the one you will get from the politicians and O.D.'s
2) Whenever the prescriber says it does on the Rx.

Chip

[fjpod]

I would think opticians, and optometrists, would do the right thing when a client is considering purchasing new eyewear, where the cost may be significant, and more than a year or two or three have elapsed since the last time the eyes were checked.

I would consider it unethical to encourage someone to spend hundreds of dollars without a checkup.

I often wonder why some supposed experts go on and on about being accurate in the fabrication of eyewear down to the last degree of axis, and the last eighth of a diopter, and lambast low abbe lenses, yet they would encourage a client to spend hundreds without checking whether a refraction has changed by half a diopter and five degrees over the course of two or three years. Tsk tsk.

[kws6000]

REALLY! So if I have a patient come in and as I'm talking to them they state there rx seems fine, I can just ignore where it says expired and just fill it? Are you kidding me? How many pharmacists would be put in jail for doing expired rx's. And what if you filled an expired rx and the person ends up with a bad case of corneal edema because the fit changed? Come on OD are you serious! :hammer:

You could do as you see fit...at your own risk if there are any complications...I wont work with expired Rx's...

Standard of care for pharmacists has no bearing in the optical business...

[Barry Santini]

I would think opticians, and optometrists, would do the right thing when a client is considering purchasing new eyewear, where the cost may be significant, and more than a year or two or three have elapsed since the last time the eyes were checked.

I would consider it unethical to encourage someone to spend hundreds of dollars without a checkup.

I often wonder why some supposed experts go on and on about being accurate in the fabrication of eyewear down to the last degree of axis, and the last eighth of a diopter, and lambast low abbe lenses, yet they would encourage a client to spend hundreds without checking whether a refraction has changed by half a diopter and five degrees over the course of two or three years. Tsk tsk.

Yes, good point! I agree!

That's why some of us Opticians wish to refract.

B

[kws6000]

I would think opticians, and optometrists, would do the right thing when a client is considering purchasing new eyewear, where the cost may be significant, and more than a year or two or three have elapsed since the last time the eyes were checked.

I would consider it unethical to encourage someone to spend hundreds of dollars without a checkup.

I often wonder why some supposed experts go on and on about being accurate in the fabrication of eyewear down to the last degree of axis, and the last eighth of a diopter, and lambast low abbe lenses, yet they would encourage a client to spend hundreds without checking whether a refraction has changed by half a diopter and five degrees over the course of two or three years. Tsk tsk.

Easy...they want to bag the sale on the spot...

[chip anderson]

What actually happens to the patient after 1yr., 2yrs., 5yrs., that couldn't happen after 6 months, or 6 weeks, or 60 years. Expiration is strictly a gimick to force the patient to get a new eye exam. While this may occasionally (I mean per thousand patients) disclose an unsuspected problem or Rx change, it's no guarantee against them. We go far enough advising patients to have a bi-annual exam. If the patient wishes to go against that advise and can't see well out of his glasses, what's wrong with saying: "I advised you to get a new exam. Now it's up to you to get a new pair of glasses and/or new lenses in the ones you just purchased."
We don't force people to have a physical, or a heart check up or whatever.
What's the matter with you people that you think you or your God given Government can force people to do things?

If there is hope, it lies in the proles. : Emanuel Goldstein

[kws6000]

The biggest crying about rx expiry dates that Ive seen are by greedy opticians who will do anything to get the sale on the spot...

[kws6000]

What actually happens to the patient after 1yr., 2yrs., 5yrs., that couldn't happen after 6 months, or 6 weeks, or 60 years. Expiration is strictly a gimick to force the patient to get a new eye exam. While this may occasionally (I mean per thousand patients) disclose an unsuspected problem or Rx change, it's no guarantee against them. We go far enough advising patients to have a bi-annual exam. If the patient wishes to go against that advise and can't see well out of his glasses, what's wrong with saying: "I advised you to get a new exam. Now it's up to you to get a new pair of glasses and/or new lenses in the ones you just purchased."
We don't force people to have a physical, or a heart check up or whatever.
What's the matter with you people that you think you or your God given Government can force people to do things?

If there is hope, it lies in the proles. : Emanuel Goldstein

Actually,there are a lot more previously undiagnosed eye health problems and rx changes than what you have stated....

In the event that the expired rx that you use doesnt work,as per your example,good luck not having the customer blame you...

[chip anderson]

Seems to me the greatest protest I have heard is from patients (consumers) who's Doctor won't give them a copy of thier Rx without a hassel and insist that they buy at least a year's worth of whatever product thereby insureing that the Rx probably won't be filled anywhere except the good Doctor's shop before it expires and they must return to him for another.
The Rx isn't a vaciene for small pox, diptheria or polio for which one could make an argument that one must have to protect the rest of the public at large. It's not even something to protect the public from themselves as supposedly helments and seatbelts (which I also have a lot of trouble with also) are. It's just to force the patient (consumer) back into the examination chair whether he thinks he has a problem or not.
If this were truly the case then the exam would be manditory (which some elements of the politburo will go for) and it would be illegal for this patient go on wearing a pair of glasses over two years old. Think of it, your next money grabbing plot, automatic expiration on existing glasses, must be turned in at the end of 730 days may not be worn a day longer.

Chip

[LandLord]

The biggest crying about rx expiry dates that Ive seen are by greedy opticians who will do anything to get the sale on the spot...

I think you mean poverty-stricken opticians who can barely pay the rent because the greedy optometrist down the street puts unnecessary restrictions on an Rx.

[fjpod]

Yes, good point! I agree!

That's why some of us Opticians wish to refract.

B

But if it's been two or three years, (and that's what we are talking about here, not one year expirations) don't you think a client should have an eye health checkup as well? Suppose they are 59? Or suppose they are 16? Suppose they have diabetes? Would you feel comfortable selling new glasses without the benefit of a full checkup?

[LandLord]

But if it's been two or three years, (and that's what we are talking about here, not one year expirations) don't you think a client should have an eye health checkup as well? Suppose they are 59? Or suppose they are 16? Suppose they have diabetes? Would you feel comfortable selling new glasses without the benefit of a full checkup?

Yes, over 2 years must have an ocular health assessment. One year, not unless there is a good reason.

[finefocus]

Actually,there are a lot more previously undiagnosed eye health problems and rx changes than what you have stated....

In the event that the expired rx that you use doesnt work,as per your example,good luck not having the customer blame you...

Of course the patient is not going to say "my fault, my problem". They will say "these glasses you sold me don't work".
Also, why do we worry about hyper-accurate lens designs if the Rx is suspect? Why worry about ANSI? An old Rx has likely changed by ANSI tolerances, so who cares? This business of precision is pretty over-rated, don't you think? Hell, we might as well start using offshore cheapie labs.

[chip anderson]

How often per thousand patients scheduled for a routine exam and refraction is "significant pathology" found?

[kws6000]

But if it's been two or three years, (and that's what we are talking about here, not one year expirations) don't you think a client should have an eye health checkup as well? Suppose they are 59? Or suppose they are 16? Suppose they have diabetes? Would you feel comfortable selling new glasses without the benefit of a full checkup?

Most of the opticians that Ive encountered would have no problem selling glasses/contact lenses to anyone walking in the door as long as there is an rx (date not important) and the customer has the money....Its all about the money with these guys...

[kws6000]

How often per thousand patients scheduled for a routine exam and refraction is "significant pathology" found?

Define significant....I would say that I encounter clinically significant cataracts,contact lens overwear problems and macular degeneration in about 20% of the people I see...Which opticians dont have the skills to diagnose or manage...

[kws6000]

I think you mean poverty-stricken opticians who can barely pay the rent because the greedy optometrist down the street puts unnecessary restrictions on an Rx.

Not my problem....Opticians would consider any restrictions on the rx as unnecessary if they cant bag the sale....