Reducing the deficit

[shanbaum]

Interesting! But you are wrong! Flat out wrong. Legislators and those elected into office ( such as senate and congress) for the State or Federal all make laws. Judges do not make laws! Constitution gives the federal government the power to make laws voted byt senate and congress and then passed by the president. Judges ENFORCE or interpret the law! The do not Make them.

This is what one things that is wrong with America total ignorance and I am shocked that you say you are a law student! Judges can RULE that a law passed by the legislative branch and executive branch are unconstitutional and overturn a that "law" but they do not make laws!

I'm sorry, but you simply have no idea what you're talking about. None. What I described is common knowledge among people who have studied the law (which, given that I managed to become a lawyer, I can state with some authority). You can say whatever you want; you can even say it with passion or indignation; but it's rather clear that your opinions are uninformed by any actual knowledge of the subject. If you want to learn something about it, there is no shortage of reading material. Start there.

With regard to your "interpretation" of the Constitutional separation of Church and State, you can say that the First Amendment means anything you want it to mean, I suppose, although you may not be aware that informed, intelligent people have been debating the precise meaning of this provision since it was written - Jefferson among them. If you want your comments on the subject to be taken seriously, you should read something about them. The position that government should avoid unnecessary entanglement with religion (which is the current state of the law) is a reasonable one, but it's not the only possible one. However, if you want to discuss it, you probably have to start from a more informed position than "there is no separation of Church and State in the Constitution." You'll also need more compelling evidence than religious comments made by religious men in a context where a particular religion was generally shared.

[Spexvet]

Rev. Scott Boision. The Christian preacher is now forbidden for life from ever citing Bible verses regarding homosexuality in his sermons, or in newspapers, by email, on the radio, in public speeches, or on the Internet.

Why cant this guy cite bible verses?

See its another example of changing the narritive.

Why cant Scott Boision cite bibilical verses in Canada?

Because he is speaking hate about a specific group of people. If someone were to make a speech saying that christians should not be able to worship or have sex with each other, that they are an abomination and should be outlawed, the response would be the same.

The liberal news stations never ran any footage of "rev wright" Obamas pastuer niether.

I don't know if Air America or MSNBC ran the footage. I know that non-patisan news satations, like ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN all ran Reverend Wright saying god damn America.

They never run anything against liberals.

Well liberal news station wouldn't now would they. No more than Fox running anything against conservatives. On the other hand, ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN all run things against liberals.

You're not implying that you want the government to make MSNBC run things against liberals are you? That wouldn't be free market, and would just be more government intervention.

But i agree Rev Wright has the right to say what he says.

Great, now stop there.

I just feel the news stations should have let everybody know what he says so everybody would have seen what kind of man Obama listned to the last 20 years.

UGH!

False!

But you have to watch them to know.

God point. He's gotta get away from Fox for a while.

Name someone on MsNBC who is conservative, CNN -? , ABC - ?, CBS -? , NBC- ?, CBC- ?

You can't tell on ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN, because they are not commentators, like Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly. They are reporters and journalists. They do not make value judgements like Fox and MSNBC guys do, they present facts. Fox and MSNBC is not news, it is opinion - yor are confusing the two.

[Uncle Fester]

You can't tell on ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN, because they are not commentators, like Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly. They are reporters and journalists. They do not make value judgements like Fox and MSNBC guys do, they present facts. Fox and MSNBC is not news, it is opinion - you are confusing the two.

Actually-

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/CNN_hire...e_commentators

MSNBC has Pat Buchannon.

Whatever happened to Combes?

[RT]

...The whole Ted Kennedy, Strom Thurmond making a lifelong career out of politics and then sucking the government teat in retirement has got to go...

Ted Kennedy died in office. Strom Thurmond died 5 months after leaving office. I don't think that either qualifies as "sucking the government teat in retirement."

[eyeguy21]

So where will the Republicans cut reckless spending? Where will the entitlements be cut? All I here on the EIB network and FOX are broad generalizations. Where are the specifics?

I predict all we'll see is a kicking of the can down the road as the deficit keeps ballooning.

Kicking the can down the road is preferrable to me than kicking it in my face. I'm not sure in detail where or how they can cut the reckless spending, because once these policies are set in place they're hard to repeal. but for me it's about checks and balances. This is what happens when you give one of these two dip$**t parties too much power. The government is in control of the auto industry, the housing industry, the banking industry and soon to be the healthcare industry. It's overwhelming.

[eyeguy21]

Ted Kennedy died in office. Strom Thurmond died 5 months after leaving office. I don't think that either qualifies as "sucking the government teat in retirement."

Point was, I don't believe in life-long appointments but I do believe in term-limits. Thanks for pointing this out though?

[Uncle Fester]

Kicking the can down the road is preferable to me than kicking it in my face. I'm not sure in detail where or how they can cut the reckless spending, because once these policies are set in place they're hard to repeal. but for me it's about checks and balances. This is what happens when you give one of these two dip$**t parties too much power. The government is in control of the auto industry, the housing industry, the banking industry and soon to be the healthcare industry. It's overwhelming.

A Great Recession wasn't enough?

Bring on The Great Depression 2.0!!!

[eyeguy21]

[QUOTE=For-Life;364861]You can only cut so much of social security though. Do you believe that someone who cannot physically work (disabled) should be thrown out on the streets? Look at your criminals out there. I guarantee you that 75% of the criminals have mental health or substance abuse problems, or are in the lines of poverty. You increase those numbers, and crime will go up. Crime goes up, and there goes the cost of the police force. I do NOT believe that someone physically incapable should be thrown out into the streets...Therefore they are HELPLESS. Then again I work two doors down from the local WIC office. You should see some of the cars that pull up for their handouts.


Fine, punish the clueless and the lazy people. But what percent of welfare do you really think that is? Certainly not enough to balance the budget. Certainly not enough to not prevent other costs from going up. Then, after that, you are just eliminating public servant jobs. You are increasing unemployment, which then lowers the tax revenues coming in and increases the welfare. It is a viscous cycle. Its always a vicious cycle though. Any response I give you here you're going to spin it in your own way so it aligns with your argument which is obviously different than mine.

If you want to balance the budget, you have to raise taxes AND cut spending.
You can't balance the budget overnight. If Obama wants me to give him another term he'll simply cut rediculous spending now and talk to me about taxes later.



You cannot ask citizens to be more responsible and then further pile on the debt of the government because you do not want to raise taxes. That is like if I am spending $1000 more a month than I can afford. I can cut my spending, but if I can only afford to cut my spending by $500, I am still increasing my debt by $500. Thus, I need to find a second job. I'm not asking the citizens anything. They should be responsible on their own. That's part of self reliance. If you can only afford to cut your spending by $500 then you're living beyond your means? Are you starting to see my point about the cyclical argument here. I just get tired of busting my hump doing three different jobs only to see people abusing the system that we've put in place. Obviously this is a simplified version but try and read between the lines. I don't expect you to understand my point of view anymore than I yours. It's the beauty of a free society.


Increase revenue and cut expenses. It is the only responsible action.
For me cutting expenses is increasing revenue for the time being. I guess we'll see what mainstream USA thinks in a couple of weeks. It's fun debating with you though.[QUOTE=For-Life;364861]

[eyeguy21]

A Great Recession wasn't enough?

Bring on The Great Depression 2.0!!!

The middle isn't so bad dude? It gives you the oportunity to objectively examine both sides of the issues. You really have to get past all of the one party stuff and realize it's us against them. I don't have to watch for very long on any of the networks mentioned within these threads to realize that theres a lot of silly spending going on right now. I'm not sure if spending our way out of a recession is the correct thing to do or not, or whether it will work. What I'm simply saying is that I don't want to keep giving good money over bad to these dumbed down versions of politicians anymore. I liken it to giving my paycheck to my 3-yr old to do with as she see's best. We keep looking at different ways to change the issues from different sides and none of it ever works. Maybe we should be changing the WAY our country governs? Maybe reduce the role of the federal government and put more control back to the states? i don't if any of this works or not but what's happening now isn't working. I give plenty of props to Bush for the current recession but I gotta give credit where credit was due and Barney Frank and the Dems were in control when the worst part of this hit.

[Uncle Fester]

Maybe we should be changing the WAY our country governs?

If we publicly financed our elections your representative would begin to represent your interests if they are in the majority. Right now his or her vote is for sale and the highest bidder is getting their way.

Start here- http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html

Note both parties are guilty.

[eyeguy21]

If we publicly financed our elections your representative would begin to represent your interests if they are in the majority. Right now his or her vote is for sale and the highest bidder is getting their way.

Start here- http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html

Note both parties are guilty.

Wow, if I'm reading this correctly...I agree? I'm working now but I'll have to check out the link you attached when I get more time later.

[k12311997]

Please cite. repubicans are in the pocket of big business, so big business funds the repubicans. Look at the wealthy repubican candidates running this election cycle.

I'm no expert web searcher and I'm mentioning an article in a newspaper that I read during the Clinton Bush election, but the just of it was that the overall amounts raised was similar, but the number of donors was close to triple for bush. so far all I'm coming up with is Obama McCain numbers and Obama had twice the funds ,but I can't find any breakdowns, and wouldn't be surprised if Obama had more contributors as well McCain was such a weak candidate, I'll keep looking. None of the candidates are regular working class joes from either party.

[MasterCrafter]

Because he is speaking hate about a specific group of people. If someone were to make a speech saying that christians should not be able to worship or have sex with each other, that they are an abomination and should be outlawed, the response would be the same.

He is speakin his religion.. Is it not better than what some musilum countries do to those people?

I don't know if Air America or MSNBC ran the footage. I know that non-patisan news satations, like ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN all ran Reverend Wright saying god damn America.

After the fact.. after Fox had to run it for about a week// plus they did not run the racist stuff.

Well liberal news station wouldn't now would they. No more than Fox running anything against conservatives. On the other hand, ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN all run things against liberals.

You're not implying that you want the government to make MSNBC run things against liberals are you? That wouldn't be free market, and would just be more government intervention

Fox tells both sides. Hannity , Beck... those guys are opinion and say so up front. Katie Couric. please dude.. she tries to say shes a news person... you see her tone with Pallin? Then watch her tone with Obama.. the great lib Walter Cronkite would never let anybody see his liberalism. Class act.

God point. He's gotta get away from Fox for a while.

One of the few media outlets that let you see 2 sides of a story. Take your typical AP news article. If a Repub does something wrong, the article makes sure you hear he/she is a repub. If a Dem does it they rarely mention he/she is a dem

You can't tell on ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN, because they are not commentators, like Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly. They are reporters and journalists. They do not make value judgements like Fox and MSNBC guys do, they present facts. Fox and MSNBC is not news, it is opinion - yor are confusing the two.

Is that why more people watch and trust Fox News more than any other news group? Somebody is confused and it AINT me

[MasterCrafter]

Actually-

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/CNN_hire...e_commentators

MSNBC has Pat Buchannon.

Whatever happened to Combes?

Pat B is 1

Bill B is 2

2 guys , do you know how many liberals are on Fox? Plus these guys do not have thier on shows. Geraldo and Sheppard Smith are both liberal and have thier own shows on Fox

[JG43]

Shanbaum passed the bar and is a lawyer.

Legislature's write/create laws but don't you think by the judges interpreting the law they do in fact make the law?

Take the original constitution and the 3/5th's compromise concerning slaves. Up until the civil war judges made the law by denying slaves a full vote.

Just spent some time in my trusty Oxford American dictionary.

Make- 3. to establish (laws or rules or distinctions)
Establish- 3. to cause people to accept

NO JUdges do not Make law they rule in favor of a party who is either within the law or out of the law! GEE PEOPLE! I cannot believe the ignorance here!

[JG43]

Spoken like a true lawyer! and with complete condescending liberalism tone. My dad went to law school Oak Brook College of Law, I also have many other friends who are in the law field and have agreed that Judges do not make law ANY law, they are there to interpret and to judge according to the law not come up with laws and rules out of their butt! a judge cannot rule must rule in accordance with the law and his understanding of it that is why they are called judges and not lawmakers!

I have read about the founding Fathers and I would encourage you to go dig and read yourself about their ideals on God and How they lived and why congress has since day one started with prayer! obviously you have a viewpoint where you can separate man and think that convictions and morales can be left at home and turned off somehow because if they are rooted in Biblical or from a viewpoint that there is a God, well A man who is does not have a God is either an atheist or a humanist and both of these are categorized as religions so where does that leave you? The context of the "WALL" of separation in which Jefferson refers to ( and did not debate his own thoughts) was to keep Government out of religion NOT the other way around and they prevented the government from making a state religion also to prevent a repeat of what the pilgrims escaped from! Our nation was build on religious ideals Mainly the Christian ideals from the writings we have it has Christian all over it. If the founders did not think God had a place in government then they would have never used the line "Endowed by their creator" OH WHAT IS THIS THEY ADMIT Or BELIEVED AND THAT THERE IS A GOD and a God who "created" man equal with rights? It is amazing how the liberals have totally twisted our history and distorted the viewpoint of the founding fathers when the writings contradict liberal teachings. I know I can say all this with passion and heart and conviction but what makes it true is not because I believe it but the historical evidence.

[JG43]

Where did I say that? I stand against the mans ideals His ideals are not Biblically sound and I know that based on what the Bible says about the murder of innocent lives to point out one major problem about Obama! You Liberals are amazing how you twist things around it is comical! Oh, I do not believe in luck btw!

[Uncle Fester]

From a response to a pm sent to shanbaum-

As I said, a lot of the law (especially tort and property law) is not grounded in any statutes at all. It consists of judge-made common law. Statutes can supersede the common law, but even when they do, they are invariably incomplete; it's frequently (I'm tempted to say "always") just not possible for a statute to cover every possible situation to which it might apply thoroughly. In that case, judges have to fill in the gaps, and when they do, they often turn to any common law principles that might apply - and in that process, they continue to make law (or "policy", as Sotomayor said).

I'd be interested to hear how your lawyer friends would respond. (Please do not take this as condescending. I am curious to see how another lawyer you say disagrees would respond.)

[Jubilee]

For news, the "bias" in the media is one reason why a comedy program "The Daily Show" has become more trusted, with Jon Stewart.. than most of the main stream new sources.

For those who say "Its a lot more consideration that what they would receive in one of those muslim countries!" Or something to that affect..
Do you realize you are trying to sway things for us to be the same way, just as long as it ISN'T MUSLIM?!?

I am anti-abortion.. but I also am against the death penalty. I firmly believe that we should not choose who should live or die.. regardless of age or sin.

I am Christian. I have my faith that I hold on to. However, while many of my particular sect are conservative.. I am more centrist. Anti-abortion, but pro Universal Health Care. I believe there should be more of a graduated system to welfare, including unemployment, where it would promote the idea of self reliance, but not forcing people to play the system in order to provide for their family. When you can bring home more money collecting unemployment than you can taking a lower paying job.. or if you will lose insurance for you and your family by making $1/hour more.. there are issues with the system.

[MasterCrafter]

For news, the "bias" in the media is one reason why a comedy program "The Daily Show" has become more trusted, with Jon Stewart.. than most of the main stream new sources.

For those who say "Its a lot more consideration that what they would receive in one of those muslim countries!" Or something to that affect..
Do you realize you are trying to sway things for us to be the same way, just as long as it ISN'T MUSLIM?!?

I am anti-abortion.. but I also am against the death penalty. I firmly believe that we should not choose who should live or die.. regardless of age or sin.

I am Christian. I have my faith that I hold on to. However, while many of my particular sect are conservative.. I am more centrist. Anti-abortion, but pro Universal Health Care. I believe there should be more of a graduated system to welfare, including unemployment, where it would promote the idea of self reliance, but not forcing people to play the system in order to provide for their family. When you can bring home more money collecting unemployment than you can taking a lower paying job.. or if you will lose insurance for you and your family by making $1/hour more.. there are issues with the system.

As a Christian are you not sick of all the "christian bashing" that goes on in the news? Why is it that Christians always have to give in while muslims get thier way?

An example of this is in NY. You cannot wear a cross necklace in schools but alot of NY schools convert thier gymnasiums into makeshift mosques at lunch so muslims can pray. Can you imagine the NY schools converting the GYM into a makeshift church at lunch so christians could prey? It wouldnt happen because they would be screaming " Seperation of church and state" !!

There should be no "giving in" on this kind of stuff. I dont think any school should be converting thier gyms into mosques or churches just to be fair.

[MasterCrafter]

For news, the "bias" in the media is one reason why a comedy program "The Daily Show" has become more trusted, with Jon Stewart.. than most of the main stream new sources.

Yea... Isnt it great that young people are getting thier news source from a big liberal biased comedian?

[DragonLensmanWV]

As a Christian are you not sick of all the "christian bashing" that goes on in the news? Why is it that Christians always have to give in while muslims get thier way?

An example of this is in NY. You cannot wear a cross necklace in schools but alot of NY schools convert thier gymnasiums into makeshift mosques at lunch so muslims can pray. Can you imagine the NY schools converting the GYM into a makeshift church at lunch so christians could prey? It wouldnt happen because they would be screaming " Seperation of church and state" !!

There should be no "giving in" on this kind of stuff. I dont think any school should be converting thier gyms into mosques or churches just to be fair.

Can you prove this is so? Of did Rush say it?
Of course you are leaving out the prayer clubs the Christians also get. But that won't fit into your supposed Christian bashing.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Yea... Isnt it great that young people are getting thier news source from a big liberal biased comedian?

Better than a far-right blog. At least Stewart will bash libs if they act up too. Did you ever see what he did to Patrick Kennedy? Shameful, really.

[MasterCrafter]

Can you prove this is so? Of did Rush say it?
Of course you are leaving out the prayer clubs the Christians also get. But that won't fit into your supposed Christian bashing.

I do not need Rush to tell me

I know somebody that lived it!! Plus if they want a "Muslim prayer club" So be it. As long as everything is equal.. because remember now... Libs are big on equality right?

[MasterCrafter]

Better than a far-right blog. At least Stewart will bash libs if they act up too. Did you ever see what he did to Patrick Kennedy? Shameful, really.

Why is it better to have a far left view?