New Autolensometers vs. Standard

**Iroc** · 09-30-2010, 12:41 PM

Just read an article on new lensometers that can read supposedly much more accurately than anyone with a "manual" lensometer. My office has an autolensometer however we can only use it on simple Rx's. Progressives & higher Rx's don't seem to be read very accurately at all. In fact, the Dr's techs come to us Opticians to get a more accurate Rx with our old Marco. When inspecting jobs with it, I also found if you got a progressive with too much vertical imbalance, you could just slightly change the angle of the glasses & now the prism was gone. Our unit is atleast 8 years old so I'm sure newer units are better but I'm curious if someone has one of these newer units & can say it works better than a standard or manual lensometer. It definitely seems like a time saver..only if they are accurate. Thanks for the input!

**MikeAurelius** · 09-30-2010, 12:46 PM

I haven't seen one yet that can handle dark tinted lenses or polarized lenses. I'd be interested too to know any info.

**FVCCHRIS** · 09-30-2010, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Iroc

Just read an article on new lensometers that can read supposedly much more accurately than anyone with a "manual" lensometer. My office has an autolensometer however we can only use it on simple Rx's. Progressives & higher Rx's don't seem to be read very accurately at all. In fact, the Dr's techs come to us Opticians to get a more accurate Rx with our old Marco. When inspecting jobs with it, I also found if you got a progressive with too much vertical imbalance, you could just slightly change the angle of the glasses & now the prism was gone. Our unit is atleast 8 years old so I'm sure newer units are better but I'm curious if someone has one of these newer units & can say it works better than a standard or manual lensometer. It definitely seems like a time saver..only if they are accurate. Thanks for the input!

I use a 10 year old Humphreys Auto lensometer. It is accurate when used properly and it takes awhile to learn it's "quirks", and yes it does save time. I do still use the manual lensometer when I feel the need arises( returning problem jobs, verifying strong prisms etc.) BTW, welcome to OB!!

**Fezz** · 09-30-2010, 01:22 PM

Welcome to Optiboard Iroc!

You post a good question. I too, have wrestled with the idea of purchasing a new auto lensometer. We have a real old Alcon auto that is just ok for a quick check on a new patients old specs, or a double check of our manual lensometer. My guess is that the auto's of today are far superior to our older models. I believe that we have several members who are using the new fangled autos. I hope they chime in and share their experience with us!

**edKENdance** · 09-30-2010, 01:26 PM

What would you compare the accuracy with?

**Wes** · 09-30-2010, 01:34 PM

I have a marco 101 manual, several humphrey 350 and some new tomey tl-3000b autolensmeters. If properly calibrated, the autos perform better than the average lab tech. I get similar readings from all three, even with higher index materials, as long as I set the machine for that particular materials' abbe.

Mike brought up an interesting point about dark and/or polarized lenses. I just tried out some polarized glass; no problem. They all three give acceptable readings. They also seem to work acceptably well, and in similar fashion on tints, dark or light.
I suspect a good optician can do well with just about any decent lensmeter, auto or manual.

**Wes** · 09-30-2010, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by edKENdance

What would you compare the accuracy with?

I have a total of 13 (that's not a typo) autolensmeters in here and a couple manuals. I calibrate them with a cal kit and a set of master lenses. I then compare the readings from the master lenses off of them with each other to see how accurate they are. Obviously, not every office can do this.
I get similar acceptable readings from all of them for axis, power, and prism (assuming, of course, that they're properly calibrated at the time. A few are on a shelf as backups, or for maintenance.)

**MasterCrafter** · 09-30-2010, 01:47 PM

I worked in an upstart wholesale lab a few years back and they used an auto lensometer for their final check out :hammer:There was no real lensometer near the final check out area. As soon as i started there i told them we should be checking out on a real one or at the least have both there.

Within a few weeks some of the accounts were wondering what the hell we were sending them. So we started looking at these jobs with real lensometers. Turns out alot of them were wrong. Most of the auto lensometers i've dealt with never seem to give a good reading. Especially with .25 cyls

For example when looking thru a real lensometer i can see the crispness of the lines and see if there are any flaws (waves, ect) Auto lensometers do not do a good job of picking this up. IMO

**Striderswife** · 09-30-2010, 01:57 PM

In my office, we've got a Humphrey autolensometer, and I think it's junk. You can make it say anything you want it to say. Prism is wack, and the techs are always asking me to double-check their reading. Ugh. But the one I use in the lab is not much better. It's a digital/manual (don't know how else to describe it) Topcon, that I can also manipulate the readings. I have to manually get the lines clear, then press the sph/cyl button for it to figure the complete Rx. I hate it.

In all honesty, I really prefer the old dinosaur models, that you read the power off the markings on the drum on the side, then do the math to figure the cyl and add. It's the simplest math that you learn in the first grade. I'd love to have one of those again. Maybe if I complain loud enough. . . ;)

**Wes** · 09-30-2010, 01:57 PM

I agree with you about the autos and waves. It doesn't pick up swirls from fining or orange peel either. Luckily, my eye does pick up that and the waves. Can't count on it for everything I suppose. My autos do ok on cyls. They do better than most of our techs with a manual anyway.

**kcount** · 09-30-2010, 02:12 PM

Manual lensometer here Marco 101 I think. Really can't remember what model it is but its a great little machine. I prefer manual to auto as I think it give more information, something akin to a digital watch versus a chronograph. IMHO

**FVCCHRIS** · 09-30-2010, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Striderswife

In all honesty, I really prefer the old dinosaur models, that you read the power off the markings on the drum on the side, then do the math to figure the cyl and add. It's the simplest math that you learn in the first grade. I'd love to have one of those again. Maybe if I complain loud enough. . . ;)

Maybe 1st grade late 60's early 70's. Now...? ;)

**Wes** · 09-30-2010, 02:42 PM

Uh oh! Showing your age! :)

**Striderswife** · 09-30-2010, 02:52 PM

Tee hee. I wasn't going to toot my own horn, but. . . I remember learning basic multiplication and division in the first grade. In 1983. :p

**Wes** · 09-30-2010, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Striderswife

In my office, we've got a Humphrey autolensometer, and I think it's junk. You can make it say anything you want it to say. Prism is wack, and the techs are always asking me to double-check their reading. Ugh. But the one I use in the lab is not much better. It's a digital/manual (don't know how else to describe it) Topcon, that I can also manipulate the readings. I have to manually get the lines clear, then press the sph/cyl button for it to figure the complete Rx. I hate it.

I'm not sure how you make it say anything you want it to say, unless you're holding the lens at an angle to the optical axis. If calibrated and used properly, the humphreys have proven to be the cream of the crop of autolensmeters. Make sure to use the clamp when checking jobs or spotting lenses. If you're sure you're using it right, then it sounds like yours may need servicing.

**shannon** · 09-30-2010, 03:24 PM

AHH....we're always wanting whats easier and faster...way of the modern world. In my opinion, faster is not always better. The majority of us I presume do not use lensometers only to verify RX's, but to check pd, prism, look for defects in the lenses, etc. I have yet to see an auto that good do everything a manual could...but I could be wrong! Won't be the first time :hammer:

**MikeAurelius** · 09-30-2010, 03:47 PM

Manuals: B&L Grey & Black, rebuilt by Walman (insert plug here LOL), and a Marco 870 that's about 20 years old and still works as new. My only complaint (as I mentioned earlier) is not being able to read polarized and dark shades (and the IR filters we make: it uses a red led laser that is filtered by the material *sigh*).

Most of what we do is checked on the manuals, the Marco is used for mass-production checking of planos to check power/prism, but only because it is faster than the manual.

**optilady1** · 09-30-2010, 03:57 PM

i love my marco 101. it's a little unhealthy. when i came to this office, i had never used an auto. i final inspect certain things on it, but i don't find that i can accurately see was the verticle balance is on a progressive. but i love my marco. it's so clear, and i'm the only one who uses it, so it's set just for me...

um, yeah, sorry. i like my manual. keeps the brain sharp too.

**Iroc** · 10-01-2010, 12:09 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome. This was my first posting & I try to do a search on here so I don't duplicate your "threads." I get the feeling that staying with our tried & true manual lensometer could still be the most accurate & consistent approach to inspecting jobs. Even though I'm a creature of habit, I try my best to try something new but just haven't been convinced yet on trying to convince my OD to purchase a new auto-lensometer. My next research project will be on "smart mirrors". Thanks again & I look forward to being part of the OB community.