For the record there are products and patients OMD's and OD's who have dispensaries do not want to handle. These patients are "Farmed out". My practice specializes in this type of situation.Originally Posted by gochi
When was the last time you said yes to a -5.75+2.00*45 4B prism patient that stated they wanted a wrap sunglass? This is common place to Professional Opticians.
- Optician
- Frame Maker/Designer
- Teacher of the art of crafting handmade eyewear.
By your argument then, the receptionist working the front desk that checks in the patient for the OD's exam should get a cut of the exam fees, since she could have just as easily referred that patient to the doctor across the street.
If I am wrong, please explain the difference to me.
A lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine!
I see a new market for Rx pads that come with a self-addressed business reply envelope to send a check to the prescribing OD for his cut of the sale, regardless of where the patient ends up purchasing.
A lack of planning on your part DOES NOT constitute an emergency on mine!
Not exactly, because the receptionist did not diagnose the patient for eye ware. The OD, however, does that and more.
Wow, I am really astonished by this thread. I really can't believe this argument has even gone this long... An OD is either paid a flat salary (as the rest of the employees - commission only coming into play if they themselves are selling product), 100% of the exam fees, or portion of the business (only if they have invested in said business, ie: start-up costs, etc. or their name is somewhere in the paperwork AKA: They own part of the business). You can justify commission to opticians because it is in the realm of what is ethically acceptable (the opticians are incentivized to sells more pairs of glasses and more "features", something that rarely hurts patients and mostly helps them. And quite frankly, patients will only comply with opticians to a certain point, usually when their wallet/frugality can't). However, monetarily incentivizing a prescribing OD would be highly unethical; this would encourage (of course not force - encourage is bad enough) OD's to carelessly over-Rx, prescribe unnecessary Multifocals or prism, wantonly fabricate ocular issues (for "profit-increasing" reasons), etc. We are all "eye-care professionals", but it must be known that we are each held to different guidelines/ethics based on our role and the regulations (explicit or implied) that govern those roles. There is a governing body in this country called the Federal Trade Commission that addresses these types of consumer affairs issues... they are the reason OD's MUST give Americans a prescription and not require you to buy glasses/contacts at that particular dispensary. This is like a law firm paying commissions to judges for ruling in their favor... (a bit extreme of an example, but it gets my point across).
Woah, hold your horses!
There is nothing illegal, or unethical (what is ethical/unethical varies from person to person, IN BUSINESS) about an OD referring his patients to another optical, due to monetary reasons.
Many opticians force OD's to give customers an RX which requires new glasses.
Keep in mind that we are in the Canadian Forum!
This statement is a lie...either restate or edit.
I did not and will not state any legal bindings as I am not versed in Canadian law; however, the ethics that bind doctors do transcend borders as human rights are inalienable and consistent in many places. Also, read the post. I am addressing the overall issue of monetarily incentivizing doctors, regardless of the reason, which is why this question even came up. IT IS UNETHICAL, NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE, TO GIVE INCENTIVES TO A DOCTOR WHO IS PRIMARILY A PRESCRIBING DOCTOR (aka, they don't own part of the business and don't sell product). There are codes of ethics that govern the behavior of most professions (especially in the healthcare industry). Just because those codes may not necessary be written into law, does not make them unacceptable. After all, speaking on behalf of opticians in this country, if we violate our code of ethics, we are liable to lose our licenses or certifications (even if there are no "legal" ramifications). Obviously, a doctor has the right to refer to other places as they see fit. Obviously again, the employment of that doctor would be in jeopardy as they would be overtly and purposely redirecting business away from that particular practice (and by the way, you rarely to never see this). Also, see directly above for the post from uncut. I'm not even sure why I'm really wasting my breath. I am led to believe that you are not actually in the eye care field, but rather are lashing out against the community as a whole for some bad experience you've had. At least that's what it seems like - seeing your lack of knowledge of the field and blind and baseless accusations.
"diagnose the patient for eye ware" - That's funny, I've been looking over all the ICD-9 codes and can't seem to find this diagnosis anywhere. All these years I have been billing wrong. I would hate to work for a doctor that was just prescribing anything willy nilly just so I can make a sale. I think your talking about a chain enviornment, which most independent opticians don't want to operate like.
I guess if the doctor was smart enough to ask for a piece of the pie, I would do it on a probationary period. I know doctors that blow sales from the chair and I know doctors that can benefit the opticians greatly from the chair depending on which kind of doctor I worked with it could be negotiable. However the aire of deserving that would immediately turn off any opportunity to even work with an OD like that. It shouldn't be expected, I have worked with doctors that complain that they went to school as long as a dentist and they should make at least the same if not more. I used to tell the doctor I worked for that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs dropped out of college so if his logic held true then I should make even more than him so why was he complaining, I'm the one losing my shirt in his logic.
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Pay no attention to the troll, he/she is a student, not even an OD student. The whole "eye ware" thing is a big giveaway.
It really is not. I am not saying that its wrong what the optician does, it is just business. Of course the majority of Opticians do not interfere with the doctors examination, but there are quite a few who do - it is business.
There is no need to be offended lol.
Last edited by gochi; 10-20-2010 at 12:55 PM.
There is no reason for the doctor to work with the Optician, in his/her Optical, if there are no incentives. I am not even sure what you are talking about- you seem to be out of control in your posts, and completely refuse to answer my original question. Also, there is nothing illegal/unethical about ODs getting a % of optical sales, if the patient requires glasses/contacts etc. If it were illegal, then it would be the law, which it clearly is not as ODs can be employed by Opticians and if it were unethical, both parties, the OD and Optician would have to agree to that, which is rare since there is a little war between the two professions.
Why?
That has been my question all along, and so far people have said its "UNETHICAL" or "ILLEGAL" which is laughable because a) opticians can employ ODs in most regions of Canada and b) what is ethical, unethical varies between people, i.e. it would seem unethical to you because your loosing out on revenue while the other optician might think it is unethical because the optician is telling the od how to do his job etc etc.
Of course, Harry! You've never heard of the code 367.000001 - "chronic eye ware" ? LOL
Stick a fork in me... I'm done. LOL You are right on one thing, that I was not addressing the original question. I chose not to do so because the conversation had strayed to the topic that I did speak to, which is whether or not to compensate a doctor beyond their base salary (ie: giving them a cut of store profits without having said doctor invest in said business). I won't waste anymore of my time trying to reason with someone who very obviously is not versed in the optics field (or any health-related business for that matter), nor cares to be. You don't bother actually reading the posts (as evidenced by your continued use of the word "illegal" when no such word is being uttered) and now I'm sure everyone following this is just doing so to get a laugh. :hammer:
Aisle 9...next to kitchen ware.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Says the Optician.
Ware, I can't find it?
Because there is no reliable metric to show which patients came for the doctor and which patients came for the optical. The doctor will of course claim everyone came to see him and I will claim everyone came to see me for my eye wear expertise. In the USA in most states an optician cannot even hire an OD because then the optical would have the ability to influence the doctor in his/her decision making ability. That's more than likely the reason why you got so many unethical remarks to your post. Here in the states the doctors don't prescribe eye wear the very notion is absurd, they diagnose a condition and that condition can be remedied with eye wear, contacts, or even lasik and the various forms of refractive surgery.
You seem to be under the impression that the doctor has nothing to gain from working in an optical owned by an optician, but as an example here in the states, the optical provides a space, equipment, staff support, consumables, and a patient base. You may not value these things but try starting up a new office and come back in 3 years and look at this post, you'll be embarrassed by your line of questioning. I don't think one poster here is under the impression that the relationship between the two professions is anything but amicable. Believe me when I say in most scenarios if an OD didn't have to work for an optician / optical they wouldn't but look at the alternatives. Chain stores which force their doctors to do things on the border and just beyond the realm of unethical, unrealistic hours, weekend hours, reduced fees, forced insurance plans, and meeting unspoken goals. Opticians value what we do, I have seen very few optician owned practices that treat their OD contractors with anything but respect. It is a symbiotic relationship that never works to anyone's advantage when one wants to play the parasite and leach off a host.
I don't think you can understand it since you don't work on that level in this industry, so you shouldn't question it so much rather than try to understand it.
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Man, when are you slow opticians going to get it through your thick neanderthal skulls, it's eye WARE.Geeesh
Sign in optical shop, or optician to client- "If you don't see what you're looking for, you've come to the right place."
Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman
Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.
I am sure a basic arrangement can be made, but it would vary for each practice. For example, each patient that undergoes an examination who is required to purchase eyeware may be given a token, stating the doctors name/patient name and prescription.
You are in the minority. Opticians can and do take advantage of ODs if they see the opportunity. It is a business. Two days ago there was an Optician looking for an OD for her optical; the pay was 70% of exam fees. I agree that the "free" staff, space & equipment are appealing to the OD in an optical, but if the OD chooses to, he/she can get the same arrangement working with/for another OD. There has to be other incentives for the OD if he/she chooses to work in an optical, under the Optician. You don't see dentists working for dental hygienists.
Since this is a pro-optician board, I don't expect most of you to see the logic behind the arrangement mentioned in this thread, however, it is still interesting to see what types of excuses opticians can come up with. Perhaps I might use the same excuses when hiring an Optician, who knows.
I'm guessing you're an optometry student. As such, you are wanting to explore employment possibilities and you seem to be bent on extorting money from an optical if they hire you. Don't get me wrong, I work for an OD, and in my state, the situation you're describing is in itself illegal. An Optician cannot hire an OD or OMD to work for them. Period. Now of course there is a way around that - both offices HAVE to have separate entrances, and there can be zero sharing of employees. And the Optician cannot pay the OD, the OD has to generate all their money themselves. If it was legal, and an OD wanted to work for me AND wanted a percentage of the optical shop's revenue IN ADDITION to their own, I would never hire that OD.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Man, when are you slow opticians going to get it through your thick neanderthal skulls, it's eye WARE.
These Brit transplants sure get their knickers in a twist.....don't they?
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