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Thread: VSP IOP program

  1. #1
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    VSP IOP program

    Is it only SV finished? No multifocals, no grinders of any kind?

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    Master OptiBoarder NCspecs's Avatar
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    You mean IOF correct? Stands for In Office Finishing. I believe it is only single vision. :)

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    Yes, I meant IOF. Thanks for the info. I understand that the stock lenses must be purchased from...wait for it...VSP!

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    Master OptiBoarder NCspecs's Avatar
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    Haha, ding, ding, ding, you are a winner! :)

    Yes, you can download a program that allows you to place the orders directly from the lab ( I think it is in sacramento). On the plus side they are usually over-nighted.

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    Some of the rules:


    Stock lenses must be purchased from the VSP wholly-owned lab assigned to your state.

    You are responsible for redos.

    Lenses finished in your office must meet ANSI 2005 and FDA Standards.

    Note: Now that we have ANSI 2010, VSP's IOF lenses are only required to meet ANSI 2005 Standards
    Last edited by Bill Mahnke; 09-16-2010 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Clean up - Copy and Paste didn't work so well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    Yes, I meant IOF. Thanks for the info. I understand that the stock lenses must be purchased from...wait for it...VSP!
    I sense some sarcasm and love it :)

    Share with me how much IOF for your VSP patients you've done in the past?
    Tell me how/why purchasing them from VSP is a bad thing?
    Share with me if you go elsewhere, are those "other sources" going to reimburse you for the work?
    Are those "other sources" doing anything to support you and your private practice? What's in it for you when working with them?
    Share with all of us why it is when we finally get what we've been asking for that you must still see the glass as half full. The program is optional and no one is saying you "must participate". The "choice" is all yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racethe1320 View Post
    I sense some sarcasm and love it :)

    Share with me how much IOF for your VSP patients you've done in the past?
    Tell me how/why purchasing them from VSP is a bad thing?
    Share with me if you go elsewhere, are those "other sources" going to reimburse you for the work?
    Are those "other sources" doing anything to support you and your private practice? What's in it for you when working with them?
    Share with all of us why it is when we finally get what we've been asking for that you must still see the glass as half full. The program is optional and no one is saying you "must participate". The "choice" is all yours.
    We've done no bench work for VSP jobs; why would we have? It still makes no sense for us to join an IOF program that encompasses only sv stock lenses; that's not what I've been asking for. If we did, I would want to be able to shop for the lenses. I have difficulty seeing VSP as "supporting private practice". I remember the cover from 20/20 or Eyecare Business with a doctor blindfolded, gagged, and bound to a chair, all this under the tagline: "Has VSP Taken Optometry Hostage?".

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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    We've done no bench work for VSP jobs; why would we have? It still makes no sense for us to join an IOF program that encompasses only sv stock lenses; that's not what I've been asking for. If we did, I would want to be able to shop for the lenses. I have difficulty seeing VSP as "supporting private practice". I remember the cover from 20/20 or Eyecare Business with a doctor blindfolded, gagged, and bound to a chair, all this under the tagline: "Has VSP Taken Optometry Hostage?".
    You've done none for VSP work because they never offered reimbursements for IOF. They did so however, because the majority of their practices have asked for it. SV is a good starting point. Uncuts next ? If I were a betting man, I'd say very likely. So shoot them for staring someplace.

    What's to shop for ? Prices are competitive as they leverage their buying power. I guess you wouldn't know though as you obviously weren't a part of their pilot program. I was. For $.20 you're likely complaining about, why don't you instead look at the the $ full reimbursement you never had as a glass more than half full ? Anything right of the $0 you've made today is money in your bank. They are giving the majority exactly what they've asked for, more options to diversify their practice, an ability to do more in house and more control of their income. I'm not sure of your patient demographics, but I live in a college town and SV patients are still pretty good in numbers. It's nice now that I can say, " go have lunch, your glasses will be ready this afternoon. " My patients have loved it so far. I even started a referral program so they will help spread the word. :D

    So again, please share with me how all that is NOT see that as supporting private practice? How is that taking you hostage ? I laugh at that statement because you make it sound as if they are holding a gun to people's heads and forcing them to accept VSP patients. You know they are VSP clients first, then your patients right?

    This isn't 1948 where there are no insurance options, nor is it 1984 when vision insurance was a luxery. It's not like the majority of folks that you're seeing under VSP coverage would pay FULL PRICE under Private Pay to see you if they weren't covered. That's a fact. Especially in today's market. If they were not covered by VSP, they'd be covered by EyeMed, Davis, Spectera or one of "the other" plans that pay oh so well. <insert sarcasm> They also wouldn't be seeing you as often nor buying as high-quality product either.

    Is it VSP or managed care you're upset with? Does this land of rich private pay patients out there really exist ? The "Clients" aka the employers are demanding options. Be glad if you accept VSP that you're backed by the biggest and best.

    Tell me, what are the IOF reimbursements you're seeing under any of those other plans ?

    In fact how are the reimbursments overall from "the other plans?" They stink and they are difficult to work with. Ask me how I know.

    Are THEY supporting you better than VSP ? Enlighten me as to how ? I'd love to compare the support you're getting from any other program with that of VSP.

    I have lots of questions. Please share with me your thoughts and answers.
    Last edited by racethe1320; 09-27-2010 at 06:29 PM.

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    Rising Star Bill Mahnke's Avatar
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    Sounds like you work for VSP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Mahnke View Post
    Sounds like you work for VSP?
    NCSpecs said:

    Haha, ding, ding, ding, you are a winner!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Mahnke View Post
    Sounds like you work for VSP?
    Nope. However, if that's what I come off like, that's okay. My practice is heavy on VSP, I"m hoping to be selected as a succeeding state rep but until then, I've been fired up as much of what I "hear" about on the boards like this is based on incorrect facts and IMO from people who are full of talk without backing it up with much in the way of facts. I'm primed because I just spend 4 days volunteering both for VSP and for a Walk for Cancer and talk about managed care is similar on both sides.

    Funny how it's been implied several times about me working for VSP......so much talk and chatter......yet no one is addressing the questions I'm asking in return. I'm confused, is this a board of ECP's looking for the truth or a college forum full of bar-room bullies that see things just one way ?

    So perhaps you would like to address my questions above ?
    Last edited by racethe1320; 09-27-2010 at 08:48 PM.

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    Rising Star Bill Mahnke's Avatar
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    Okay, lets see....

    You signed up for OptiBoard on September 24th. Other than this thread the only posts you've made had something to do with VSP. The one concerning VSP's buying of Capitol Optical and the other was about the VSP and COSTCO "deal".

    VSP is a big insurance company - you can love 'em or hate 'em and I really don't care. It just seemed like your comments came across as rather hostile to finefocus.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Mahnke View Post
    Okay, lets see....

    You signed up for OptiBoard on September 24th. Other than this thread the only posts you've made had something to do with VSP. The one concerning VSP's buying of Capitol Optical and the other was about the VSP and COSTCO "deal".

    VSP is a big insurance company - you can love 'em or hate 'em and I really don't care. It just seemed like your comments came across as rather hostile to finefocus.
    I've surfed the board as a lurker since spring this year. Never been one for work related sites, but this is the best site that I've found for some good information pertaining to the technicals.

    Yes, I keyed in on VSP threads. Isn't that what the search tool is for? I do the same for all topics I have an interest in discussing. As you get to know me, I'm always open to a good discussion. My coming off a bit harsh or hostile, my apologies. I'm a bit passionate as I started my practice with VSP and have worked about every angle I can to become successful using them and their programs. He started with sarcasm, I continued with some, but at least mine contained some meaningful questions meant to make everyone more aware.

    I also just came back from the IL Optimetric Meeting and met quite a few sour grapes in terms of docs who gladly drive in with their attitudes, fancy cars and complaints about companies they take money and vouchers from all day long. Quite a different crowd than I normally associate with. Coming here and seeing much of the same sparked my attitude even more. Especially since again, I think there's a lot to gain from the board.

    If I came here and followed along like everyone else, it sure wouldn't be as much fun. Gotta have fun and learn otherwise life is pretty boring.

    Now if we may, back on topic.....what's your thought on IOF from VSP. Seems like a lot of sour grapes from folks who evidently don't understand or care. For me, I already had an in-house edging unit. The VSP piece is a nice benefit. I can pull some extra dollars doing the easy stuff in-house and further enhance my practice. I take it no one else here is doing it ?
    Last edited by racethe1320; 09-27-2010 at 09:35 PM.

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    Thanks for the PMs all.

    You're right, it's not worth it.:cheers:
    Last edited by Johns; 09-27-2010 at 09:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by racethe1320 View Post
    I also just came back from the IL Optimetric Meeting and met quite a few sour grapes in terms of docs who gladly drive in with their attitudes, fancy cars and complaints about companies they take money and vouchers from all day long.
    The fallacy is that they are making big money because of the vouchers. In reality, they are doing ok,in spite of them.
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    Ninja Edit Much?


    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    People have lost their jobs by naming specifics here. I'm sure VSP would love to know who makes waves for them. A PM would be a quick way to find that out.

    That’s fine. You brought it up and opened that can, so I simply replied with a logical request. No witch hunt intended. If VSP “hired them” then what’s the fear of everyone here knowing?

    Seeing as you are gunning for a job w/VSP, (if you don't have one already) it would stand to reason why you are waving their flag so wildly. However, being an OD that has not experienced the very real discrimination that this third party plan has perpetrated against ECPs, I can see how you would have no idea of what really goes on, only what you've experienced as a panel member for them.
    I’m only waiving the flag because there’s a lot of animosity and finger pointing without much in the way of answering of questions. Now if I’m debating with a group of disgruntled Opticians, that’s one thing. FWIW, I could care less if VSP changes their ways and reimburses you the same in the coming days. I have my own practice and dispensary staff. I welcome the changes. I also believe they will happen. Please don’t’ tell me I have no idea though. This isn’t my first rodeo.

    What kind of facts do you want?
    That VSP has, and continues to discriminate against opticians? That is in their handbook.
    What’s new about that? I know plenty of Opticians that have a spouse who “owns” the practice. Make due. VSP has had that handbook for over 50 years. Likely way before half of the Opticians comlaining got into the business. They knew ahead of time what they were getting into…..or at least should have. The company found by docs not Opticians. Not condoning it, but I’m also not going to condone the BS arguments either. You knew the ground rules going in.

    That VSP lost it's "Non-profit" status, and now is scrambling to make it up? That's in the news.
    What do I care if they are NFP or not. The gov’t wants their fair share and believe me, they will get it. In turn, those associated will pay. It rolls down hill as they say. Why would I cheer for this? Does it help the greater good of my patients or my practice or that of my peers? Nope. Cheering it on goes against all that I signed up for.

    And now you want us to name the opticals that have been allowed (for VSP's convenience) to be panel members? For what purpose? So they can be exposed and cut out of it? I too could name names, just like many of us could. Just because we don't, for the purpose of protecting others does not mean it's not happening.
    So again, if VSP is “secretly” hiring these people….which is pretty funny to hear…then why would “exposing them” do any harm to them from the deep dark-side of the VSP team should they “find out” ? I don’t get it. Again, you brought it up, why wouldn’t I ask you to clarify? Why is doing so wrong?

    I agree w/Bill. Someone has touched a nerve and brought you (or caused VSP to send you) out of your shell. Your vague references ("distant" relative to VSP "volunteer") as to where you get your "facts" are just as "college forum" as anything else I've read here.
    What brought me out of my shell is all the negative talk about a company that I do not see in the same negative light as so many here. I’m flattered that you think VSP “sent me” though. I’m quite sure they have their people on this and other forums though. I also don’t think they really need to worry about what the chatter on board is though. Last I heard about 27k+ docs still gladly cash their checks. What I meant by “college forum” like is that there still isn’t anyone answering my slew of very straight forward questions. I’m getting pinged left and right for asking it seems. You seem to think I’m attacking you? I don’t get that.

    And no, while I don't enjoy giving away profits to third party plans, I don't see most of them as evil. What I totally despise is when a third party plan (VSP) masquerades as a non-profit agency, and then buys out a frame company, and tries to woo the very professionals that they've been trying to put out of business (opticians). Of course, you only have to look around your fully stocked Marchon dispensary of your "VSP heavy" practice to know which frame company I'm referring to.
    I don’t see where you are “giving away profits”. Again, do you think if VSP’s clients didn’t sign with them, that all those 54M lives would just freely go private pay and pay you full price? Doubtful. Not in todays market. Again, last I checked, everyone I know who is accepts VSP signed on the same line I did and provided their fees just as I did. Pretty voluntary if you ask me.

    Another question: Why do YOU think VSP bought Marchon? How did you see them lining up against companies like Luxottica and EyeMed if they had not? How about Essilor? How do you see them keeping a position of strength in the market when on one side you have a retail based frame company and on the other, the largest lens company that has both laboratory and product control. All those opposing forces against an ever shrinking and competitive insurance base. I’m curious as to what your business hat would have done if you were them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    The fallacy is that they are making big money because of the vouchers. In reality, they are doing ok,in spite of them.
    Vouchers are given to me to try out new product, cover an error or to say thank you to me for supporting a vendor by perhaps having a strong month of sales. Last time I received a voucher, I was the one who benefited from it 100% so I don't see what you mean by saying in spite of them. Would you care to exlain?

    No one has ever told me that they are making me successful by "giving me a voucher". Again, I don't see where you get this negative slant. and I'm not specifically talking VSP either. I get tons of vouchers from all the vendors, labs and frame companies.

    "they" and I am doing okay....more than okay in some cases. So you want to know what gets me fired up...since you did ask.......when I hear people who took an oath to place the treatment of their patients above their own personal gain yet all I see here is a bunch of whiny butts who want more money and feel they are "entitled" to charge a patient as much as they will pay without anyone looking for the patients best interests. Everyone who is complaining wants all the control and all the monies and feel the world revolves around them.
    Last edited by racethe1320; 09-27-2010 at 10:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racethe1320 View Post
    No one has ever told me that they are making me successful by "giving me a voucher". Again, I don't see where you get this negative slant.
    Your words, not mine:

    met quite a few sour grapes in terms of docs who gladly drive in with their attitudes, fancy cars and complaints about companies they take money and vouchers from all day long.
    So again, if VSP is “secretly” hiring these people….which is pretty funny to hear…then why would “exposing them” do any harm to them from the deep dark-side of the VSP team should they “find out” ? I don’t get it. Again, you brought it up, why wouldn’t I ask you to clarify? Why is doing so wrong?
    I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "hiring these people".

    The reason I edited my post was because after I posted it, I realized that it wasn't the VSP and Costco thread, and the questions that you wanted answered were not what I had read. I was referring to this (from that thread):

    Hmmmm, If by private practice you mean Independant Optician owned, they compete by offering the Doctors higher pay out, oops I mean reimbursements, than to the Optician. I have documented proof so its not just some message board rumor. Even those Opticians who are able to accept reimbursement directly from "VSP" get much less than the doctors. However if you weren't speaking of the Independant Optician forget what I said.
    There are many opticians that VSP has "picked and chosen" (many are in auto manufacturing states) to be VSP providers, almost on par w/the ODs. But like I said, they are not allowed to say anything, and would lose their status if it were to become public. That is what I was referring to, and not what you had discussed in THIS thread. That was my fault for posting too soon before I realized which thread I was in.

    So now that I've managed to not only highjack the thread, but also blend the two together, I'll stay over in the VSP/Costco thread. I'm not a VSP provider, and have no idea what their lingo for IOF is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    There are many opticians that VSP has "picked and chosen" (many are in auto manufacturing states) to be VSP providers, almost on par w/the ODs. But like I said, they are not allowed to say anything, and would lose their status if it were to become public.
    ah ha moment....and I know specifically one that you "may" be referencing. believe me, it's not a VSP Picked and Chosen thing. The one I am aware of is part of the system based on how they got in which was not entirely truthful. I had dinner with them about two months back. I'm actually headed to the motor city again next week. We've bantered about it and while in one breath VSP might change his status if they found out, I don't think they have anyone really policing it. All in all, I don't care. I go 75mph in a 65mph zone. Let someone else turn him in. Not my battle of the ones I'm picking. I do disgress back to how it's funny that so many here think that it's VSP secretly doing something under the table with ill intentions in mind. The conspiracy theories are funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racethe1320 View Post
    ah ha moment....and I know specifically one that you "may" be referencing. believe me, it's not a VSP Picked and Chosen thing.
    I know of a few in the motor city, but the opticals I was thinking of aren't in "traditional" auto manufacturing states (think non-union), and from what one told me, the plant approached him, and then VSP. VSP called him and asked him to be a provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    I know of a few in the motor city, but the opticals I was thinking of aren't in "traditional" auto manufacturing states (think non-union), and from what one told me, the plant approached him, and then VSP. VSP called him and asked him to be a provider.
    Can't confirm nor deny. I will stand by disbelief that VSP is hiring opticians and running some secret pilot program that is their entry into retail - > as noted in one of these threads here. even I'm mixed up with where it is. Anyway, that's just message board gossip. VSP isn't going into retail with their own docs/dispensaries. Makes no business sense.

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racethe1320 View Post
    ...VSP isn't going into retail with their own docs/dispensaries. Makes no business sense.

    Makes no sense? Tell that to EyeMed (LensCrafters) and Davis (ECCA). VSP will sooner or later take on the same model, or continue to loose ground to these other 2 providers. It will be interesting to see if you still have the same school *spirit* as you do today for VSP when that happens.

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    Get with the program DUDE!

    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    Makes no sense? Tell that to EyeMed (LensCrafters) and Davis (ECCA). VSP will sooner or later take on the same model, or continue to loose ground to these other 2 providers. It will be interesting to see if you still have the same school *spirit* as you do today for VSP when that happens.


    Ppppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttt......... ................What do you know?? LOL!


    Everybody knows that Eyemed and Davis drools and that:

    VSP RULES!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    Ppppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttt......... ................What do you know?? LOL!


    Everybody knows that Eyemed and Davis drools and that:

    VSP RULES!
    Hey, What do I know Fezz? I don't take any insurance! (and don't need to)

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by optical24/7 View Post
    Makes no sense? Tell that to EyeMed (LensCrafters) and Davis (ECCA). VSP will sooner or later take on the same model, or continue to loose ground to these other 2 providers. It will be interesting to see if you still have the same school *spirit* as you do today for VSP when that happens.
    So your saying the cost of opening thousands of retail stores across the country, manning them with bodies and paying salaries, rent, utilities and where applicable, benefits, makes sense financially for VSP ? I don’t think so. What business degree do you have makes that add up in today’s market? What other company in the world is doing such a thing? Not even McDonalds is on a new store expansion blitz. Who would VSP buy ? Where would they see financial gains?

    Lux bought several retail chains to sell frames. They then bought insurance to control patients and funnel them into said retail store chains to sell their frames. Period. That’s why anyone of my peers (DO-OD-MD), who has a Lux display in their dispensary is an idiot to me. Why support those that support your competition? Makes no sense.

    The cost heavy side for Lux is the retail stores. That’s where they are trimming people, closing locations and trying to become efficient. So they can get strong by 1. controlling operational costs or 2. a tougher challenge in today’s market, sell more stuff. The challenge there is doing so profitably too. why would VSP want to get into a retail or e-tail war and play the game the Luxottica way?

    VSP on the other hand has 27k docs on their panel already dealing with consumers and selling stuff. With no hassles of actually owning those locations. Why add expensive retail stores ? It’s easier to simply control product costs / click charges they incur and pass on the savings. They did so by buying Marchon, Eyefinity, OfficeMate and others. They are doing so by private branding and co-branding their own goods too. Changing the game.....

    My guess is you’ll see more of that. That’s where the money is for VSP. Controlling material costs. The most expensive piece in the VSP model is cost of goods. Not people. Which do you think is easier to control ?

    VSP also doesn’t have stockholders demanding huge dividends in return as does the publicly owned Lux. Well, they do have a board, but the money is put right back into the company to do the aforementioned. Contrast that with Lux who is out to make a profit to make people (stock holders rich) Who is VSP making rich? Not VSP employees. Not private investors. Tell me…minus any smart butt answers who ?

    I’ll save you the trouble…..Who, are VSP’s stockholder…. The board and panel members that they sign up and support better than any other provider.

    So I'll take you up on that bet and challenge you to formulate a business model you see VSP taking that drives them to open a slew of expensive retails shops that in the end would only create a retail war where no one wins.

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