Question about online glasses?

**Mizikal** · 08-26-2010, 07:18 PM

Are they being made in America? I think this might be a good question to ask patient considering that purchase. With the ANSI we have standard thickness for safety which other countries may not have. We had a lady in a while back that had glass lenses she bought in England and they shattered in our hands when we took them out of the frame. I can think of another 100 reasons not to buy them online. Just curious if any one new that. I don't know if it will detour people from buying glasses online or not.

**Diopterman** · 08-26-2010, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mizikal

Are they being made in America?

Does it really matter where they are made?

Some are made on our shores, some in China, some in India, some in Whereversville.

Do you really think that a patient cares?

Why? Why not?

**tdj** · 08-26-2010, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Diopterman

Does it really matter where they are made?

Some are made on our shores, some in China, some in India, some in Whereversville.

Do you really think that a patient cares?

Why? Why not?

My clientele is mostly older working- or middle-class Americans. I think a lot of them would care.

**Diopterman** · 08-26-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by misslindsay

My clientele is mostly older working- or middle-class Americans. I think a lot of them would care.

Would they?

Would they really?

Do you think that a person buying online glasses thinks that they are buying specs made in the Good Ole US of A?

Would those same customers raise an eyebrow if they checked where the frames on your boards were made in? Would a lot of them still care?

Is there a difference?

Why? Why not?

**tdj** · 08-26-2010, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Diopterman

Would they?

Would they really?

Do you think that a person buying online glasses thinks that they are buying specs made in the Good Ole US of A?

Would those same customers raise an eyebrow if they checked where the frames on your boards were made in? Would a lot of them still care?

Is there a difference?

Why? Why not?

Actually, the reason I said that is because I have scoured the boards for non-Chinese frames for several patients before (most of our frames are MIC *sigh*)

**Diopterman** · 08-26-2010, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by misslindsay

Actually, the reason I said that is because I have scoured the boards for non-Chinese frames for several patients before (most of our frames are MIC *sigh*)

So what is your point?

Are you claiming that your patients care about where their lenses are made, but don't give a hoot where the frames are made? If your office is comfortable enough displaying "MIC" frames, how are you going to CONvince them that "MIC" lenses are to be avoided?

Just curious.

**tdj** · 08-26-2010, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Diopterman

So what is your point?

Are you claiming that your patients care about where their lenses are made, but don't give a hoot where the frames are made? If your office is comfortable enough displaying "MIC" frames, how are you going to CONvince them that "MIC" lenses are to be avoided?

Just curious.

No, not what I was saying at all.

Although I do think patients care less about where the $10 piece of plastic/wire comes from than who is doing the work on the actual, consequential parts of the glasses.

**Mizikal** · 08-26-2010, 08:01 PM

The question was more geared towards ANSI not so much that they are made in China.

**Diopterman** · 08-26-2010, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mizikal

The question was more geared towards ANSI not so much that they are made in China.

I may be wrong, but I believe that ANSI standards are voluntary at best.

**Wes** · 08-26-2010, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Diopterman

I may be wrong, but I believe that ANSI standards are voluntary at best.

The only ANSI Z80.1 (for DRESS eyewear) recommendation/standard that is mandated is impact resistance and that is through the FDA. ANSI is not a regulatory body.

**Speed** · 08-26-2010, 08:46 PM

You must realize, the online shoppers are the ones that think you have been overcharging them for ever. They think you been gettin in thier pocket mercilessly. They do not care where they come from. A .15 cent pair if glasses is what they want to shake in your face. Don't matter if it's chavez,iran or north korea. You figure out how to overcome that and we can go on the road and make a fortune. You don't, we die a slow painfull death.

**Speed** · 08-26-2010, 08:48 PM

I know that is a bitter pill but we are all in various stages of that. Welcome to life.

**MikeAurelius** · 08-26-2010, 08:52 PM

Any finished eyewear product imported into the US is required to meet ANSI standards, whether dress or safety. Yes, the ANSI standards are voluntary, there is no organization that enforces the rules, certainly not the FDA. Maybe the FTC, dunno.

But there are on-line operations located here in the US as well as Canada.

**MikeAurelius** · 08-26-2010, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mizikal

Are they being made in America? I think this might be a good question to ask patient considering that purchase. With the ANSI we have standard thickness for safety which other countries may not have. We had a lady in a while back that had glass lenses she bought in England and they shattered in our hands when we took them out of the frame. I can think of another 100 reasons not to buy them online. Just curious if any one new that. I don't know if it will detour people from buying glasses online or not.

Yeah, the English have some goofy ways of doing things. They can have 1.0 center thickness and there isn't a hardening standard that I'm aware of.

**Yeap** · 08-26-2010, 11:29 PM

Online glasses so far is not popular in my area.. consumer still walk in to the optical center for their glasses done. but there 1 fact for us to consider is why people get their glasses done online.. i think price is an issue for them.. there are some thread here that have discuss about this topic but i do think that someone must do something regarding that as it is not a proper way of practice.

**Chris Ryser** · 08-27-2010, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Yeap

Online glasses so far is not popular in my area.. consumer still walk in to the optical center for their glasses done...........................................someone must do something regarding that as it is not a proper way of practice.

someone just did on May 1st, 2010...............and that is the BC government who deregulated dispensing opticians and in BC now anybody who wants to sell glasses, can do so.

**MikeAurelius** · 08-27-2010, 08:06 AM

One additional point: anything imported into the United States is supposed to have a tag or sticker indicating the country of origin (like frames are marked on the temples). This is a requirement and can get an importer banned. I'm not sure how it would work with items being sent via the postal service or couriers such as UPS or FEDEX, but it is still a law that could be used against them.

**Chris Ryser** · 08-27-2010, 08:35 AM

The whole far East is using EMS a chinese registered courier service that only works from there to here and the cost are a fraction of what our established Fedex.UPS/DHL are charging. Incoming parcels never make it through customs and are delivered to the door by the offical postal service. Never figured out how they can do it.

**MichaelP** · 08-27-2010, 04:05 PM

Keep in mind, the largest online retailer is Frames Direct. They are in Texas and are majority owned by Essilor. They sell Luxottica and most other brand name frames. But of the others...

I would say the majority of online retailers are U.S. based, and most if not all are owned by licensed opticians. I know we sell Essilor PAL's and Transition lenses, and many others do as well, along with Seiko, Younger, and most any other brand you can name.

The Chinese companies that import their glasses appear to be registered with the FDA, and most display the FDA's logo proudly on their website. Not exactly sure what this means, but...

As far as I know, all lenses that are imported into this country must comply with ANSI standards. Maybe they're slipping non-compliant lenses through customs? But more likely they're just complying...

And with frames, many B&M places carry private label frames, and we all know that brand name has nothing to do with quality, and that almost all are made in China anyway.

I think to say that there is a huge gap in quality of materials between online and what is being sold in brick and mortar locations is a myth. Note, I am not saying there isn't a gap in final delivered product - I think it's clear that estimated segs and self-measured P.D.'s will likely deliver an inferior pair of glasses. But a s.v. pair with a P.D. taken during the exam by an O.D. purchased online? They'll be very comparable to what any B&M location sells I believe.

**MikeAurelius** · 08-27-2010, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelP

The Chinese companies that import their glasses appear to be registered with the FDA, and most display the FDA's logo proudly on their website. Not exactly sure what this means, but...

As far as I know, all lenses that are imported into this country must comply with ANSI standards. Maybe they're slipping non-compliant lenses through customs? But more likely they're just complying...

I'm pretty sure the FDA would be very unhappy about that. The FDA does NOT endorse or otherwise permit its name to be used for advertising any medical device. It's OK to say that your facility has been registered with the FDA, however, the FDA DOES NOT register labs, only semi-finished manufacturers, and I highly doubt that they would register an out-of-country foreign-owned manufacturing facility. Sounds like a scam to me.

**MichaelP** · 08-27-2010, 09:18 PM

Seems that way to me too. Do you register with the FDA to import frames? Maybe that's it. Either way, it's misleading. Funny, I think displaying the FDA logo directly corresponds to the more questionable online retailers that are out there, almost like a "don't shop here" badge.

All the more reason we need some regulation in this area (and I'm speaking as an online retailer myself).

**Chris Ryser** · 08-28-2010, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by MichaelP

All the more reason we need some regulation in this area (and I'm speaking as an online retailer myself).

The other on line retailer, Firmoo has clearly identified himself on this Board with his website from the beginning of his postings..

You claim to be an on line optical retailer but have not done so, in order to validate your statements.

**uncut** · 08-28-2010, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by MichaelP

Keep in mind, the largest online retailer is Frames Direct. They are in Texas and are majority owned by Essilor. They sell Luxottica and most other brand name frames. But of the others...

I would say the majority of online retailers are U.S. based, and most if not all are owned by licensed opticians. I know we sell Essilor PAL's and Transition lenses, and many others do as well, along with Seiko, Younger, and most any other brand you can name.

The Chinese companies that import their glasses appear to be registered with the FDA, and most display the FDA's logo proudly on their website. Not exactly sure what this means, but... This means FACE.
But a s.v. pair with a P.D. taken during the exam by an O.D. purchased online? They'll be very comparable to what any B&M location sells I believe.

This statement? Comparable? How? On what basis?

**MikeAurelius** · 08-28-2010, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by MichaelP

Seems that way to me too. Do you register with the FDA to import frames? Maybe that's it. Either way, it's misleading. Funny, I think displaying the FDA logo directly corresponds to the more questionable online retailers that are out there, almost like a "don't shop here" badge.

All the more reason we need some regulation in this area (and I'm speaking as an online retailer myself).

Easy enough to find out...I think I'll be making some calls on Monday to get some facts.

**eyeguy21** · 08-28-2010, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Yeap

Online glasses so far is not popular in my area.. consumer still walk in to the optical center for their glasses done. but there 1 fact for us to consider is why people get their glasses done online.. i think price is an issue for them.. there are some thread here that have discuss about this topic but i do think that someone must do something regarding that as it is not a proper way of practice.

I also used to look at an expensive frame and think this little bit of metal costs $200? Or a set of progressive lenses that costs $300-$400 and think, how could such a small piece of nothing cost this much. But then if you look at everything that goes into it it makes more sense. I mean by the time you figure in everything that goes into that finished pair of glasses from the frame manufacturing to the person in the lab doing the finish inspection there's a lot to consider. Manufacturing plants cost money, Optical dispensaries and Opticians cost money, Labs have lots of expensive eqipment and the techs that work there appreciate getting paid too. Ordering online is probably ok in some cases (like that 22 yr old college kid that thinks he needs opthalmic quality +.75 readers) but there's too much room for error with online glasses. They may save some money but at the end of the day they're definately skipping important steps by purchasing eyewear online. I don't know if this is the "wave of the future" or not, but I could see it dropping off the map too. Anybody remember when the whole planet thought Phen Phen was going to eliminate the obiesety epidemic?