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Thread: Essilor Has Purchased and Now Owns (Insert Company Name Here)

  1. #51
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    That is a small srinking list in comparison with the big E. It is likely too late.You say support your local independent and I would agree. But it's like saying buy American cars. It is a noble statement but for whatever reasons we do not. The independents profits are deminishing. Most labs are now unable to pay their entry level people enough to maintain transportation to make the comute to work. When frustrated lab owners attempt to increase their prices, the customers leave. Big E is relentless, always there to take these customers. You must also know that big E is also there with their ckeck book with sweet offers for these weary, frustrated lab owners. These lab offers are not standing and will soon not be nessessary. Lab owners must know, big E could drive them under with prices. Increasing pressure to sell. I heard of one lab's prize account being offered free lab work for one month. He never got that customer back. When the door shuts, the despinsers only have themselves to blame.

  3. #53
    Ophthalmic Optician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    It is a noble statement but for whatever reasons we do not. The independents profits are deminishing.
    True, but at the very least, make thoughtful consideration as to where the dollars are going. Are your dollars paying you competition to continue their mission to dominate you? Is there not one lab on the list that can't be used?

    It does matter.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  4. #54
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Confused What the ...

    CuriousCat:
    Top ... Labs ... By Net Sales
    If you are going to choose substitute labs by net sales, then why is Essilor bad again?!
    Why not choose on quality, business policies etc.

    sharpstick777:
    much more durable AR's are now much less expensive (then Essilor's)
    their first decent lens in ages really ... its still beaten by cheaper rivals
    According to sharpstick777, Essilor have worse products and maintains higher prices.

    But then Speed, claims:
    Most labs are now unable to pay their entry level people ... frustrated lab owners attempt to increase their prices, the customers leave.
    Leave to where?! Sharpstick777 said Essilor is more expensive, so they wont find lower prices there, right?

    I am confused. You are all saying opposite things but agree in your conclusion.
    This does not compute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Angelov View Post
    CuriousCat:

    But then Speed, claims:


    Leave to where?! Sharpstick777 said Essilor is more expensive, so they wont find lower prices there, right?

    I am confused. You are all saying opposite things but agree in your conclusion.
    This does not compute.
    Sure, it's confusing to you.

    More margin to work with. Much more. It will all "compute" soon. Not too much longer now.

  7. #57
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    More margin to work with. Much more.
    So Essilor is bad because they maintain high prices across the market.

    What?!

    This increase in market price will raise everyone's margin as they can increase prices to match "the market".

    This is the definition of "Pro-Competitive".

    The Opposite of what they are doing would be: If they used their economies of scale to lower prices below the costs of their competitors.

  8. #58
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    Speed:
    It cost big E about 1/8 what it cost an independent to produce similar products
    So Company "A" can make a product 8 times more efficiently i.e. with 8 times less resources that company B.

    Which is better for the environment and for humankind?
    The more efficient producer, OR the 8 times more wasteful one.

    The arguments so far show that Essilor is better for the optical market (maintain higher market prices) and for the environment (8x less resources spent for a unit of production).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Angelov View Post
    Speed:


    So Company "A" can make a product 8 times more efficiently i.e. with 8 times less resources that company B.

    Which is better for the environment and for humankind?
    The more efficient producer, OR the 8 times more wasteful one.

    The arguments so far show that Essilor is better for the optical market (maintain higher market prices) and for the environment (8x less resources spent for a unit of production).
    No need at all for a company "B" I suppose. Company "B" is a wholesale lab that buys lens blanks from company "C", a lens manufacturer. Company "A" is both.

  10. #60
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    How does their business structure change the fact that they waste 8x more resources in the end of the day!?

    If company B is so smart they should recognise the enormous waste and improve their production process.
    If they figure that the 8x inefficiency comes from their blank supplier, they can start casting lenses themselves.
    And if they still can't produce a unit more efficiently they deserve to go out of business.

    How would you feel if a water purification central operated 8 times less efficiently costing 8X more for purifying a gallon of water?
    Or an electrical central burning 8 times more fuel to generate a megawatt, or a car with 8 times lower Miles per gallon...

    If that's the case i agree there is:
    No need at all for a company "B"
    And good riddance to their wasteful incompetent ways.


    PS: I don't know where you took the 1/8 production costs, but if true this is a great demonstration of manufacturing prowess.
    Last edited by Nikolay Angelov; 12-18-2011 at 03:15 PM. Reason: typo

  11. #61
    Master OptiBoarder mike.elmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpstick777 View Post
    Despite Essilors size and breadth, many of the products are simply now mediocre:

    The Crizal series was great 10 years ago, but it takes an enormous amount of time to get, processing is innefficient, its prone to crazing and much more durable AR's are now much less expensive. Even some of the "standard" AR's beat the Crizals in Colts testing.

    the Comfort was great (in 1993) but it has not been top dog since about 1998. The Panamic was generally mediocre at best. The Physio is good but only came out when Free-form was taking off. Varilux has in general provided very inferior Free-form products and had to hire Seiko to redo the 360 series to reduce non-adapts. The DRx is their first decent lens in ages really, but its still beaten by cheaper rivals. They still don't offer a wide variety of materials, like other manufacturers.

    Have any of their sales reps ever dispensed? Long gone are the Essilor reps that could actually help you solve problems or understand your patient needs. Do you really want someone who has never had to deal with a non-adapt giving you progressive advise? The new Essilor reps are mostly
    cheerleaders (no offense to any of you few Essilor reps that actually have dispensing experience)

    They bought Reflection Free to make Crizal. They bought Shamir to make decent free-form. They bought Transitions to make Photochromic. All in all none of even thier best products have really come from in-house except the Comfort and Physio. And the Comfort was 19 years ago!

    They do not have a culture of innovation. Once they run out of companies to buy they will slowly suffocate in mediocrity because they have always depended on others to make good products. Its only a matter of time before it catches up with them.
    Are you referring to the Definity?

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I believe that you can boot out Winchester Optical, another fallen lab to the E.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolay Angelov View Post
    And if they still can't produce a unit more efficiently they deserve to go out of business.

    If that's the case i agree there is:


    And good riddance to their wasteful incompetent ways.


    PS: I don't know where you took the 1/8 production costs, but if true this is a great demonstration of manufacturing prowess.
    You are in for an awakening my friend. Soon there will be no company B. Or C. Only A. You may as well send then your resume now.

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    Soon there will be no company B. Or C. Only A.
    You are incorrect, look at the car industry.
    There are a few dozen companies worldwide and that's it.

    There isn't a "car lab" in every town.

    Why don't you complain about Mitsui Chemicals ... you know they supply the monomer for every high index lens (1.6, 1.67, 1.74).
    Zeiss, Essilor, Rodendsock etc ... it's all Mitsui.

    This year they acquired Acomon as well.

    Isn't it bad that there are just 3-4 monomer manufactures worldwide?
    I know what you are thinking lets have a independent (whatever that is) monomer manufacturing "lab" in every town.

    You brought down B&L and American Optical, and now Your market is dominated by big foreign companies ... how ironic.

    PS: On the lighter side of things:
    Here we joke that we are independent as nothing depends on us .

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    OptiBoard Professional Lee H's Avatar
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    "Soon there will be no company B. Or C. Only A."

    I disagree, I believe there will always be a place for an alternative to E labs or E lens products. There are still some ECP's out here that are looking for quality, service, good pricing and alternatives. While many will settle for being shifted from E lab to E lab until they find one that can produce quality lenses (while being bought by spiffs and kickbacks), there are many ECPs that are finding there are other lens products and labs that do a much better job than E by offering quality work and other lens products that work (many times better...and for less $) .

    With that being said, it is sometimes frustrating to see some of the spiffs and kickbacks happening in our industry and some that abhor E, then start using E because they have received a big check and a contract. However, there are other companies, including independents, doing the same thing.....although I think some of these companies are doing it just trying to survive. It's very different now than it was just ten years ago.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    OptiBoard Professional Lee H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post
    The smart ECP strips away the kickbacks and spiffs to look at the real products, services and prices. The reality is that in every transaction, you get what you pay for.

    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCat View Post

    The smart ECP strips away the kickbacks and spiffs to look at the real products, services and prices. The reality is that in every transaction, you get what you pay for.

    I am so glad you said it straight forward. You always get what you pay for........................the cost of spiffs and kickbacks is always included in the price as a fact.

  21. #71
    OptiBoard Professional Lee H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    I am so glad you said it straight forward. You always get what you pay for........................the cost of spiffs and kickbacks is always included in the price as a fact.
    There are many times where a market leader will sell at a loss or very thin margins to drive a competitor out of business. I've seen five years of spiff money paid up front with a contract that the ECP will continue to use the BIG Corporate Lab's services (or pay the money back). Another tactic is for the BIG Corporate Lab to "purchase" an ECP's lab equipment in an effort to buy the ECP's business. An example would be for a 6 figure agreement (payment) to be made in return for 3-5 years of the ECP's business. There have been situations where this has been done with equipment that was absolutely worthless. I could list more examples of where the BIG Corporate Lab is basically trying to put the smaller lab out of business....Even if the account is using the BIG Corporate Company's brand of lenses, it doesn't matter....the BIG Corporate lab wants 100% market share at any cost. Its amazing to me that the ECP that has been paying a premium for lenses and not getting the best quality can switch to a smaller lab that delivers better quality and saves the ECP money, folds when the BIG Corporate rep comes in with a "new deal" that is much less than the ECP has been paying from that same BIG Corporate lab for years. Doesn't that ECP see that they were being charged a premium for many years? Another tactic is to lower the base (to half) on the BIG Corporate lab's monthly/quarterly SPIFF BUILDER program. If the BIG Corporate Lab had to compete on quality and service alone, they wouldn't be near as BIG. Oh yeah, then there's the free voucher scenario where a LARGE quantity of vouchers show up at the ECP's office. If I were a client of the BIG Corporate lab, I think I would leave at least once a year to get the lowest prices and best spiffs. Actually, I wouldn't do this.....I don't think

    Many times that same ECP is complaining of the increase in the number of rx's that are walking... either going to the local big box store and buying a $79 PAL (made by BIG Corporate Company) or going to an online outlet (that may be owned by the BIG Corporate Company). I find it amusing and yes sometimes frustrating. I scratch my head and move on to find the ECP that wants to learn about different lenses available and wants a no games, no gimmicks, competitive pricing schedule, a wide range of product availability, and consistent quality. I'm thankful there are still those ECP's out there that cannot be bought, will not settle for lesser quality and appreciate a family business that strives to bring products to the market that will help support their success. I do respect everyone's choice to use whatever supplier they wish even if its the BIG Corporate Company.

    I have seen a decrease in the BIG Corporate Company's lens sales within my customer base.....what a shock.

    disclaimer - My name is Lee Hagwood and I work for Luzerne Optical in NC/SC and I approved this message :)
    Last edited by Lee H; 12-20-2011 at 09:18 AM.

  22. #72
    OptiBoard Professional Lee H's Avatar
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    I feel better now...
    Last edited by Lee H; 12-20-2011 at 09:21 AM.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Congratulations Lee...............................you made it right to the point....

    and

    ECPs start the believing process.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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