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Thread: frame adjusting question

  1. #1
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    frame adjusting question

    Hi,
    I have a patient who just ordered a new prescription sunglasses. When the frame came back the frame sat on her face with so much panto tilt that too much light is coming in from the gap on the top. Also the temples are too tight for her. This is a Ralph Lauren RA 5072 frame so there is minimal wiggle room for adjustment. Any recommendations on adjustments to make it a better fit?
    Thanks.

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    Just the usual: heat the endpieces and bend them up and out. Why is this a problem? It's a zyl frame, isn't it?

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    The frame appears to be made of cellulose acetate or zyl, correct? If you can't angle the endpieces enough to reduce the panto, you may put a gentle upward sweep in the temples from the frame front to the ears. If increasing the temple spread angle at the endpieces isn't working, you may try warming the bridge to remove a little face form. This may not be an ideal adjustment but sometimes it's necessary.

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    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    If the picture I see online is the correct frame: I can't see hinge in pic but looks like there may be some room between it and the front. If so, you may be able to heat that frame in front of the hinge and bend the plastic up a little. Be careful not to loosen the hinge; once heated, you don't wanna crank on the hinge itself, just try to bend the plastic up. If there is not room between hinge and front you will need to bend the hinges up. First turn the screw down as tight as you can so hinge is stable. Close the temple a short way and gently bend up on the temple, holding temple firmly as close to hinge as possible (closing the hinge just slightly can help you avoid bending it TOO far. After getting proper panto, you should be able to heat the endpieces and ease them out a little to widen them. Take your time, don't overheat and just try to bend a little at a time.

  5. #5
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    Why don't you ask your Optician?

    You do have a highly skilled,very qualified Optician on your staff, right?

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    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diopterman View Post
    Why don't you ask your Optician?

    You do have a highly skilled,very qualified Optician on your staff, right?
    OptiBoard is a place for everyone to ask questions and hopefully learn. Posts like this just seem confrontational to me....and unnecessary. They also work to undermine the whole point of this board by possibly keeping those that need or want information to hesitate to ask here, fearful that they will look 'stupid'. I hope the day you need us for support that others will be more gracious to you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLG View Post
    OptiBoard is a place for everyone to ask questions and hopefully learn. Posts like this just seem confrontational to me....and unnecessary. They also work to undermine the whole point of this board by possibly keeping those that need or want information to hesitate to ask here, fearful that they will look 'stupid'. I hope the day you need us for support that others will be more gracious to you.
    Is it unfair to ask if an OD has a competent optician on his/her staff?

    Isn't the Od's question the area of expertise for a qualified optician to answer?

    Would you be so open to sharing your expertise with a OD that may or may not find the value in hiring a qualified Optician to take care of such situations?

    Are you comfortable in giving away your expertise for free to someone who may or may not look at your skills and knowledge as over priced and wouldn't employ someone with the same skills because they wouldn't want to pay for that knowledge, yet will openly try to steal knowledge from a fine group of optical pros like Optiboard?

    Check the posters info page. Look at the 12 other posts, Tony. Is it safe to assume that if this OD had a qualified, educated Optician on staff that these kind of posts wouldn't have been posted?
    Last edited by Diopterman; 07-28-2010 at 07:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Master OptiBoarder TLG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diopterman View Post
    Is it unfair to ask if an OD has a competent optician on his/her staff?
    A sentence that begins with "you" isn't a question. It was obviously a judgment - but now you're backing off.

    Isn't the Od's question the area of expertise for a qualified optician to answer?
    I'm assuming that's why it was asked here... there are a couple on this board.

    Would you be so open to sharing your expertise with a OD that may or may not find the value in hiring a qualified Optician to take care of such situations?
    I think I just did

    Are you comfortable in giving away your expertise for free to someone who may or may not look at your skills and knowledge as over priced and wouldn't employ someone with the same skills because they wouldn't want to pay for that knowledge, yet will openly try to steal knowledge from a fine group of optical pros like Optiboard?
    No knowledge is stolen here; it is offered freely. Are you sure you understand the purpose of this board?
    --

  9. #9
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    Tony,

    I am sorry for asking hard questions. It is obvious that you are ok with judging that my post was confrontational, but not ok with questioning if the OP has a qualified Optician to refer to. Please keep up with your righteous attitude. I can only hope that one day you have to look for a job and have to look one of these type doctors in the eyes and plead your case. I hope you have to sweat while explaining how much knowledge you have, how much work experience that you bring to the table. I can only hope that they look you back in the eyes and say that you may know your stuff, but are over qualified, want too much pay, and that they can get their dispensing issues taken care of for free on Optiboard. Maybe then, you will realize the wisdom in my simple questions.

    The sad part is that you know the truth that I am speaking, but can't speak it yourself.
    Last edited by Diopterman; 07-28-2010 at 08:28 PM.

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    If we help this OD with a problem, perhaps he/she may see the need to have a competent optician on staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by need2see View Post
    I have a patient who just ordered a new prescription sunglasses. When the frame came back the frame sat on her face with so much panto tilt that too much light is coming in from the gap on the top.
    So what I hear you saying is that the frame was a good fit and then it went to the lab from whence it returned rather messed up? I find this happens sometimes and the best way for me to reshape it is to remove the lenses, square up the frame and then reinsert the lenses. Quite often that's all I need to do plus a little tweaking. If that doesn't work maybe the frame was a poor choice for the patient to begin with?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoisland58 View Post
    So what I hear you saying is that the frame was a good fit and then it went to the lab from whence it returned rather messed up?
    "I have a patient who just ordered a new prescription sunglasses. When the frame came back the frame sat on her face with so much panto tilt that too much light is coming in from the gap on the top. Also the temples are too tight for her..."

    I'm not seeing anything about how the frame went out. I often see a "fitter" so excited to make the sale that they forgo checking to see if it is a good fit or not. Then, it is the (not so excited anymore) consumer that points out the deficit in the fit.

    Again, the frame probably came back the same way it went out, but the dark lenses make the lack of proper fitting much more obvious now. If it were the fault of the lab getting the frame out of shape, that would be an easy fix. However, the doctor has stated:
    "...there is minimal wiggle room for adjustment..."
    , so I don't think that's the case.

    I would admit to the patient that the selection and fitting was not optimal, and start the process over. The patient has probably guessed as much, and is waiting for the professionals to admit it.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    I'm sort of amused reading everyone's posts...especially in regard to questions of whether I have an experienced optician or not. If I do have one who can help me answer this question in office I would not have posted. I have a fairly new and small office and my staff is new and still in training.
    But thank you for all those kind people who posts recommendations. This frame is zyle and the little plastic area between the frame face and the hinge is too short and too thick to make any reasonable adjustments. There is also limited wiggle room at the hinge. Unfortunately I was not there to see this patient for pick up and my poor staff had to face a mean spirited customer. Just trying to make sure it is done right and this is a good lesson for my staff and I.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by need2see View Post
    Unfortunately I was not there to see this patient for pick up and my poor staff had to face a mean spirited customer. Just trying to make sure it is done right and this is a good lesson for my staff and I.
    If your "in training staff" is doing the fitting, you'll find that it is more important for you (assuming you have experience at this sort of thing) be there for the fitting, rather than the "pick up". (or as those of us in the profession call it, the "dispensing".)
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  15. #15
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    If an OD comes here asking for advice (and actually Optiboard is getting quite the reputation in OD cyberspace) then:
    1. ODs should likewise share their expertise
    2. ODs become increasingly impressed with the body of knowlege in your field
    3. Good things may happen going forward. This ain't 1976 anymore, and a new crop of ODs graduate annually with no past predjudice.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diopterman View Post
    Why don't you ask your Optician?

    You do have a highly skilled,very qualified Optician on your staff, right?
    Are you new to the board or did you create a new name to hide your identity? Why would you post such an antagonistic response to someone with a question? I have no idea why a few people get such joy out of hiding behind a fake name to put down others.
    Please consider posting anything that is positive and not a personal attack; you may find you have nothing to say!
    I hope you get the point, but doubt it!

    Craig

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Are you new to the board or did you create a new name to hide your identity? Why would you post such an antagonistic response to someone with a question? I have no idea why a few people get such joy out of hiding behind a fake name to put down others.
    Please consider posting anything that is positive and not a personal attack; you may find you have nothing to say!
    I hope you get the point, but doubt it!

    Craig

    On a recent trip to Fla., I met Diopterman, and he related a story of interviewing w/an OD, and after 3 interviews, to make sure that Diopterman was "qualified", the OD offered him (I'm not sure of the exact number) somewhere in the ballpark of $9 per hour.

    Many of us have had contact with MDs, ODs, and chain store managers that see no more value in opticians, than glorified greeters and frame sellers. I'll admit that his response to the post may have been kneejerk, but I think that he asked the question that many of us wanted to, but didn't.

    To be honest, I think that Diopterman pegged this one right on. The OD has a new practice, probably just invested a ton of money in office space, furnishings, and fixtures, but although his staff is "in training", they are already "selling" and "giving out" glasses.

    I don't think that this is the fault of the OD, but rather the culture of the profession that opticians have allowed to foster. We need to add value to our profession through education and better marketing of our skills and knowledge. Otherwise, the hiring of opticians will continue to be be nothing more than an afterthought.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    I'm not seeing anything about how the frame went out. I often see a "fitter" so excited to make the sale that they forgo checking to see if it is a good fit or not. Then, it is the (not so excited anymore) consumer that points out the deficit in the fit.

    That was my thought as well but I was trying to be... oh diplomatic maybe, in case he hadn't considered that yet.

  19. #19
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    Why would it take 3 interviews to be considered qualified to bend a frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johns View Post
    On a recent trip to Fla., I met Diopterman, and he related a story of interviewing w/an OD, and after 3 interviews, to make sure that Diopterman was "qualified", the OD offered him (I'm not sure of the exact number) somewhere in the ballpark of $9 per hour.

    Many of us have had contact with MDs, ODs, and chain store managers that see no more value in opticians, than glorified greeters and frame sellers. I'll admit that his response to the post may have been kneejerk, but I think that he asked the question that many of us wanted to, but didn't.

    To be honest, I think that Diopterman pegged this one right on. The OD has a new practice, probably just invested a ton of money in office space, furnishings, and fixtures, but although his staff is "in training", they are already "selling" and "giving out" glasses.

    I don't think that this is the fault of the OD, but rather the culture of the profession that opticians have allowed to foster. We need to add value to our profession through education and better marketing of our skills and knowledge. Otherwise, the hiring of opticians will continue to be be nothing more than an afterthought.
    I understand the frustration of being a stand alone optical that takes no insurance and has a higher selling price than anywhere in town, but we are up 10% YTD.
    There have been numerous layoffs in my area; 2 MD offices just let go 3 people and the cheapo's have just laid off staff and cut hours on all employee's.
    People will pay for service if they think they are getting it or they will go to least expensive provider if they think all things are equal. That is the real issue in my opinion, does the patient feel they got a good overall value from the practice, not the cheapest price.

    My guess is the OD who offered $9 per hour is of the mindset that cheaper is better; that is great for a few people, but it is not how I live my life or runmy businesses.

    I GUARANTEE I COULD HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST $10 AND JOHN'S COULD GET $12 WITH ALL HIS KNOWLEDGE. :drop::drop:



    I always ask my potential clients if they think all cars are the same or is there a difference; it is the same with service and the products we offer.

    We offer the best service at a fair price, they can go elsewhere for less if they desire to get their medical devices from a warehouse or Walmart.

    Craig

  20. #20
    Master OptiBoarder kat's Avatar
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    Have you tried shaving off a little of the temples on the top to give you a little more "wiggle room" while adding more retroscopic tilt? I do agree that sometimes it is best to take the lenses out, re-shape the frame, and re-insert the lenses. Good Luck with your new business!!
    I came, I saw, I left

  21. #21
    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    i think this question could be much better answered if we could see the actual patient wearing the frame, from the side and from the front, otherwise its all speculation as to what might be

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    Don't bother trying to adjust a frame with little or no "wiggle-room". Refit the patient with something that fits better and solves the problem. Try to reuse the lenses but don't make that a priority. Let the patient know his/her satisfaction is your primary concern. Use this experience as a training tool for the staff, and try not to stock too many "unadjustable frames". If you do, make sure they are a "spot-on" perfect fit. No-one is perfect, showing your staff that you understand this is critical for your relationship with them, and their's with you.
    Chris Beard
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  23. #23
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    Truth be known, today's ladies zyl sunwear is all difficult to adjust. Advancing/receeding the temple bend on a big fat slab of plastic is difficult to do. Bridge fit is mostly fixed. Wide-based temples give no room for pantoscopic tilt adjustment.

    Chris is kinda right--they fit off the shelf or they don't.

    In this case, as kat says, maybe you can file down the temple butt (I think it's called the butt) and make the necessary panto adjustment. It's a risk-reward thing at this point.

  24. #24
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    I would:
    1. Remove the lenses and true up the frame.
    2. Remount the lenses and make sure the frame is still true.
    3. Then make any adjustments.
    4. If the frame fitted the patient before rx-ing, it should fit after glazing. The only concern I would have is whether or not the curvature of the lenses has impacted the shape of the frame.

    I recently had to explain to an account that glazing a wrap frame with 6 base curves is just asking for trouble.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FVCCHRIS View Post
    Don't bother trying to adjust a frame with little or no "wiggle-room". Refit the patient with something that fits better and solves the problem. Try to reuse the lenses but don't make that a priority. Let the patient know his/her satisfaction is your primary concern. Use this experience as a training tool for the staff, and try not to stock too many "unadjustable frames". If you do, make sure they are a "spot-on" perfect fit. No-one is perfect, showing your staff that you understand this is critical for your relationship with them, and their's with you.
    FVCCHRIS, ibelieve that this is a wise advice.

    Also, pay attention to the frame selection. Do not see the frame as it is now, take into account the changes that could make the lens in that frame. Adjust every frame to the patients face before it is send to the lab. Teach the patient what we are looking for.
    If you see that there is too much to adjust, choose another frame that naturally fits better to the patient and the lens that is going to be mounted. Every frame will not fit everyone as you will not recommend a short corridor progressive to a patient that has add 2.50 and does a lot of intermediate and close job.

    This is what i expect from the person that helps the patient to choose the frame. The right frame should be comfortable.

    Now the final adjustment should be easy.

    In my country there are no Opticians. I am a old OD. I spend now most of the time doing the job a Optician does on the U.S. and teaching the Optometrists we hired and the "salesmans" how to do the job. It is not easy.

    If more OD knew what a Optician does and how complicated it is, there will be a better comunication.

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