I have been a huge fan of the Seiko freeform. We have been dispensing Superceede for almost two years, best freeform on the market!!! But, we were not thrilled with the UTMC coatings. We have been using the Seiko Ar from Plastic Plus for the past couple of weeks and the coatings are incredible. Nice to support an independant over the big boys.
Which of the new coatings do you like the best?Originally Posted by disp1967
I haven't tried any yet (I am waiting to get a pair of personal glasses made once the new Seiko FF lens is available)
I would appreciate a PM letting me know what you are getting for them.
Regards,
Golfnorth
We have done several of the Junsui Pure (the most expensive one). We simply charge the same as we were for UTMC 3 or Crizal. This coating is much better though. Its nice to offer a Seiko coating with a Seiko lens.
Our office has been a huge fan of Seiko freeform too. In fact we have gone 100% digital for the past year. Every progressive is Seiko or Vandelay. This coating is excellent. Maybe the best we have seen. And yes, finally an independant who can service us!!!!!
The product may be good, but PP's quality and customer service is in the bottom core of the industry.
Is it really that bad? I was considering them as a lab for the fact they carry seiko (I would like to support this lens company from what I've heard).
We have used plastic plus for close to two years. We left nikon after meeting with a sales rep. We have been thrilled with their service quality and freeform designs. Their customer service is the best. When ever we have a rush or problem job, their people work their butts off for us. Our office only uses their digital products (seiko and vandelay) and we have virtually no non adapts (much better than nikon). Our only issue was the UTMC coatings but the Jun Sui looks awesome!!!
All I can suggest is to try it for yourself. The experience(s) I've had have been less than desirable, not to mention very frustrating.
It is extremely difficult (near impossible) to find an independant lab these days that actually has technical knowledge and can provide superior customer service. If it exists, I would be willing to pay a little more and wait a day longer for delivery!
Vandelay (named by Mr. Faibish because he was a fan of Seinfeld) is simply a private label version of the Seiko product - the exact same thing at a lower price point!
Funny, now I know where I heard the name Vandelay. You should try some pairs for yourself I did. I personally have two pairs of Vandelay and two pairs of Supercede. I can tell which pair is which design. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. While the Vandelay is virtually the same in the distance as Supercede, the reading and intermediate is not quite as good. But the Vandelay is much better than my Nikon Go Digital or Physio 360!!! And my experience with Plastic Plus while not perfect is definately better than with previous labs. We love dealing with them. They know thier stuff
We also enjoy usung Plastic Plus. Our office recently went to tour their new lab. It is unbeleivable. I've seen many labs over the years but this is something everyone should see. Machines and conveyors all over the place. They must be doing something right cause there must have been a couple thousand jobs going through the day we were there. And I think it is all from independants. We did have some issues during their renovation but they are long past. Their customer service is the best plus they are the only lab if I have a patient in the office and need a quick answer about a lens I can always get someone knowledgeable on the phone. WE all have to support independant labs, otherwise the big guys will take over and we will all be in trouble.
And yes there is a difference between Supercede and Vandelay, I have a pair of each tooo.
I just checked the technical sheets. All Seiko freeform are on the 180, Vandelay is 4 above. So for sure not the same lens.
This is my first post on Optiboard. I am an OD with a practice in a smaller city in southwestern Ontario for over 20 years. For us our reputation is very important, being in a smaller community. We have used Plastic Plus as our primary lab for almost 5 years. They have been outstanding. Yes there have been issues and mistakes from time to time. But this has happened with every lab. And to be honest, many mistakes are our fault. But overall, they have provided us with the best, quality, service and support. They are also nice people and easy to deal with. We have switched most of our progressives to the Seiko freeform. This was done after testing products from Nikon, Zeiss, and Essilor. We evaluated and felt the Seiko quality was best plus the cost was a bit lower too. We also use the Vandelay for our price conscious patients. We find this lens to be priced very well. But we prefer to offer brand named products. And yes as per the last couple of posts Vandelay and Seiko are NOT the same design. We have now started with the Seiko AR, Jun Sui Pure. It is excellent. If you look at the lens, the residual colour on the front and back is the exact same. And we have noticed that this lens cleans better than the UTMC or essilor products. As other people have said, it is alos critical that as a profession we support independent labs. If Essilor, Nikon and Zeiss take over the remainder of the marker we will all be paying alot more for lenses. Plastic Plus provides our office with professional service and excellent quality.
We deal with two labs, PP being one of them, and a smaller Independant right in town as the second. Our smaller intown lab has a more personal, technical staff. They're a great help on tough jobs, whereas PP is our bread and butter. 95% of our Progressives are from PP, with the Vandalay FF being our go-to lens. The design is great and the price is awesome. I've never had a problem dealing with the customer service gals (they're not the most technically knowledgable, but that's not their job) our Rep is amazing, and they bend over backwards for us on remakes. Like the first post said, our only issue has been with the UTMC3. It was decent, but not great. We've just made the decision to switch over to the Junsui/PPS coatings. From the feedback here I'm thinking it sounds like we made the right choice!
What are the expectations of price on a PL free form? Please PM me if you want - may be able to assist.
But the Vandelay IS a Seiko design. It's just one that Seiko sells to labs and allows them to put their own brand on it, thus any lab can have a high quality house Free Form lens. And yes, the Succeed, Supercede, and Surmound are all fit on the 180, with the other design being 4 above; however, they all use the exact same blank.
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
Correct...all PL FF lens designs are based on at least one manufacturer's brand name lens. The software is licenced out to the independant/distributor lab and the name is changed. There isn't one independant lab out there that has developed from 'scratch' a world renowned global design and required software due to lack of funds and technology brains. These IND labs simply process them with other's software and design development.
Not to say these PL's are bad, it's actually the opposite. They are excellent quality since they are the same and gives the IND lab an attractive marketing piece and price point for optical professionals. Call it what you want...the major manufacturer, IND lab and ECP consumer all win.
Has anyone used their remote tracing, or any lab's remote tracing for that matter? If so, how was the process, cost, time taken, and resulting job?
We have two offices in town. Our main office has our finishing lab in it. Both offices have been set up for PP's remote tracing, and our Optician in our main office swears by it. Our computer crashed a bit after having it installed and I haven't had a chance to sit down with PP and set up the software again. The issue with any kind of tracing, remote or otherwise, is calibration. If you let it go, it'll get worse as time goes by, but if you keep up with calibrating the machine there's no reason why it shouldn't work.
Sorry I'm not familiar with the process and just want clarification. Is the remote tracing just more information for them so they can choose the best scenario on their end? Or are you able to remote trace, have them edge the pattern then have them ship the edged lenses to you, so all you are doing it mounting them into the frame...or handing edging if a little big then mounting?
Most remote trace and transmit systems work ok for the most part. But they are far from perfect and when lenses keep coming back oversized or small, the lab blames the customer and the customer blames the lab.
It can be caused a multitude of problems, usually IT related. Re-calibration works less than 50% of the time and the massive amounts of time spent involved troubleshooting can be very costly. Unless you're an IT expert, call the courier and send the frame - it will be back at your office before you figure out the problem!
My best advice and doesn't add any time to delivery is trace and send the order electronically. Especially on a plus power lens, you will get a perfect edge thickness every time versus using box measurements; that's so old school.
Then send the frame - by the time the frame arrives (usually the next business day), the lenses should be ready (or just about) ready for edging. The lab will retrace the frame on their equipment and a perfect, hassle free experience will result every time!
Also the labs always cover the shipping costs both ways.
Is that a standard happening? I was under the impressiong when shipping to a lab you're paying for the shipping.
Do you clarify how things will work before hand (including the shipping costs)?
If I open I would like to use the lab since it is closer and also because of all the amazing things I keep hearing about Seiko and how some OBers think it is better than some brands like Nikon or Essilor
Well, a good lab will not only not charge you shipping on jobs they send you, but also pay for the shipping on things you send to them. Usually they will provide you with pre-printed shipping lables for what you send that charges its shipping cost to the lab's account with that shipper.
Or at least that's how we do it down here....
There are rules. Knowing those are easy. There are exceptions to the rules. Knowing those are easy. Knowing when to use them is slightly less easy. There are exceptions to the exceptions. Knowing those is a little more tricky, and know when to use those is even more so. Our industry is FULL of all of the above.
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