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Thread: Got Asked for a PD Today (First Time)

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    At least use a fee schedule of whatever each decides for work done out of the regular routine.

    I don't believe that a regular B&M optician has the funds or the desire to have a real online shop.

    Furthermore I do not think that the onliners are going to go away, so you will have to re-think the situation. Do like many optometrists across the country have done for many years, charge a dispensing fee for the specialized work you do instead of a flat all included price for the whole glasses..

    The onliners sell a semi-finished product, which needs adjustments and care. Furthhermore most of them purchase and have all lab work done in China, so frames or lenses have never touched this continent before final delivery.
    Chris;

    Go back and take a look at post #5 in this thread.
    A fellow optiboarder offers the PD, Rx verification and adjustment of glasses for $30 and they've had no takers.
    This is not only very reasonable but a very good value and there have been no takers.
    What does that tell you? These eyeglass wearers don't value the role of the eyecare professional and they want everything for free.
    Why you think we should twist ourselves out of shape and bend over backwards for these idiots is beyond me.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post
    Chris;

    Go back and take a look at post #5 in this thread.
    A fellow optiboarder offers the PD, Rx verification and adjustment of glasses for $30 and they've had no takers.
    This is not only very reasonable but a very good value and there have been no takers.
    What does that tell you? These eyeglass wearers don't value the role of the eyecare professional and they want everything for free.
    Why you think we should twist ourselves out of shape and bend over backwards for these idiots is beyond me.

    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Just because there are no takers, doesn't mean it's not a good way to manage your business. If everyone just stood fast and charged fees for their services, that would be the norm. I have always charged a fee for my services when it is reasonable, and it is never a problem. Unfortunately this business has been based on a gentleman's agreement of doing things for free. Didn't opticians jump at the idea of providing "free" autorefracting in order to sell glasses. This after they spent over $50,000 for equipment to do the autorefracting. So everyone should just relax and charge for their services and time. In the end we are a service business and, like lawyers, we charge for our expertise.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golfnorth View Post

    Why you think we should twist ourselves out of shape and bend over backwards for these idiots is beyond me.
    Regards,
    Golfnorth
    Golfnorth...................The reason why I think so as you say, I hate to see a profession I have learned many years ago, I have lived from all my life, I have well mastered in several different positions, is maybe going down the drain because some new business ideas have taken root and seem to be florishing.

    You call them idiots, however I would take a bet that they would not agree with that term as they might be without a job, have suddenly been degraded to a lower salary and have to save money in every corner. So they buy their glasses on line. There are some others that purchase there because because it is a a sport to them to find items chaeper than through the regular channels.

    I am sure that sooner or later these people need the help of a good professional. I really don't see that you have to bend over backwards to make a few dollars from people that would not have been your customers anyway.
    regards
    Chris


    Employment rose by 93,000 in June, pushing the unemployment rate down 0.2 percentage points to 7.9%. This is the first time the rate has been below the 8% mark since January 2009.
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    I've read over this thread with varying amounts of amusement and horror...

    First, a little background: I'm the resident manufacturing optician for my company Aura Visual Concepts, Inc. Some of you may know the name as Aura Lens Products, Inc. I've been 'in the business' since 1975 and have seen a continuing evolution of our industry, especially now as it comes to grips with the on-line phenomon (sp) as well as economic issues. My business has evolved from selling semi-finished single vision glass lenses to providing lab services to other labs to selling retail direct. We are one of the last remaining glass-only labs in the United States. We sell only highly specialized glass filters to other labs, doctors and dispensers, and, yes, retail. We don't do "normal" streetwear eyewear.

    Part of my horror comes from those of you who view people coming in for a PD measurement as somehow the dregs of society, as being lower than low. Have you ever stopped for a moment to ask yourself WHY they are wanting to use an on-line business? Many times it is because these potential customers can't afford to buy eyewear anywhere else.

    Why don't you turn this into an opportunity instead of turning the person away? Every person who walks into your business is a potential customer. If you turn them away (or as I see above, playing some sort of game or trick on them) all you do is make sure they never darken your doorway again. You've actually encouraged them to buy on-line. You've lost yourself a potential customer, someone who may have come into your business again to repair a frame, replace a lost screw, fix a broken hinge, or even to buy a new pair of glasses.

    <whole prices removed>

    And, let's be honest with each other for a moment. It takes about 5 minutes to measure someones PD. Less if you use an electronic device. You've got staff trained to measure PD's don't you? Certainly you don't do it yourself. Where is the liability in putting a PD stick on someones nose and reading it (and giving them the CORRECT number)? The answer is that there is no liability.

    Turn the interchange into an opportunity for some business. Treat the person as if they are a potential customer. Show them your "economy" line. Tell them that you stand behind your products. Give them the pitch as you measure their PD. And, yes, offer to check out the glasses they get from the on-line discounter. But don't charge them for it, do it for *GASP* free. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    For those of you who want to play games, have you fully thought through your actions? If you give them a made up or incorrect PD and the glasses are made to that PD and they are wrong, YOU are liable. You purposely and knowingly provided false medical information to a "patient". You can lose your license for doing that. So why bother? Do it right. Turn the person walking in the door into a customer instead of turning them away and taking the chance that you will never see them again.

    I rely on my customer's local opticians and dispensers to provide them with an accurate PD. Remember, the product I sell is unique and generally not available anywhere else. There are many opticians and dispensers who refuse to even consider selling a glass product (even though glass is the only product that can provide certain types of protection to the patient). I strongly encourage my retail customers to develop a relationship with their local optician to provide them the support I cannot. And, yes, I'd honestly rather sell it to you to sell to your patient, but many times you guys/gals simply aren't interested or you are somehow afraid of the "liability of selling glass lenses". It's an opportunity to make a profit that you pass up.

    And consider this: Lenscrafters, Pearle Vision, and a host of other "big box store" retailers will measure PD's for free.

    Ok, I've gone on long enough and I'm probably now on the sh*t list for at least one or two of you...but I hope that you took the time to read and think about what I've had to say. Enjoy the rest of your day!

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    I've read over this thread with varying amounts of amusement and horror...

    First, a little background: I'm the resident manufacturing optician for my company Aura Visual Concepts, Inc. Some of you may know the name as Aura Lens Products, Inc. I've been 'in the business' since 1975 and have seen a continuing evolution of our industry, especially now as it comes to grips with the on-line phenomon (sp) as well as economic issues. My business has evolved from selling semi-finished single vision glass lenses to providing lab services to other labs to selling retail direct. We are one of the last remaining glass-only labs in the United States. We sell only highly specialized glass filters to other labs, doctors and dispensers, and, yes, retail. We don't do "normal" streetwear eyewear.

    Part of my horror comes from those of you who view people coming in for a PD measurement as somehow the dregs of society, as being lower than low. Have you ever stopped for a moment to ask yourself WHY they are wanting to use an on-line business? Many times it is because these potential customers can't afford to buy eyewear anywhere else.

    Why don't you turn this into an opportunity instead of turning the person away? Every person who walks into your business is a potential customer. If you turn them away (or as I see above, playing some sort of game or trick on them) all you do is make sure they never darken your doorway again. You've actually encouraged them to buy on-line. You've lost yourself a potential customer, someone who may have come into your business again to repair a frame, replace a lost screw, fix a broken hinge, or even to buy a new pair of glasses.

    The reality of the economy is that people are looking for any way possible to save money. I get the mailings and faxes, I know that there are "economy" frames available that you and I can buy for $xxxx. You and I both know you can buy uncut CR-39 bifocals for under $xxxx. WHY NOT find a way to serve these people and take some business away from the on-line discounters?

    And, let's be honest with each other for a moment. It takes about 5 minutes to measure someones PD. Less if you use an electronic device. You've got staff trained to measure PD's don't you? Certainly you don't do it yourself. Where is the liability in putting a PD stick on someones nose and reading it (and giving them the CORRECT number)? The answer is that there is no liability.

    Turn the interchange into an opportunity for some business. Treat the person as if they are a potential customer. Show them your "economy" line. Tell them that you stand behind your products. Give them the pitch as you measure their PD. And, yes, offer to check out the glasses they get from the on-line discounter. But don't charge them for it, do it for *GASP* free. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    For those of you who want to play games, have you fully thought through your actions? If you give them a made up or incorrect PD and the glasses are made to that PD and they are wrong, YOU are liable. You purposely and knowingly provided false medical information to a "patient". You can lose your license for doing that. So why bother? Do it right. Turn the person walking in the door into a customer instead of turning them away and taking the chance that you will never see them again.

    I rely on my customer's local opticians and dispensers to provide them with an accurate PD. Remember, the product I sell is unique and generally not available anywhere else. There are many opticians and dispensers who refuse to even consider selling a glass product (even though glass is the only product that can provide certain types of protection to the patient). I strongly encourage my retail customers to develop a relationship with their local optician to provide them the support I cannot. And, yes, I'd honestly rather sell it to you to sell to your patient, but many times you guys/gals simply aren't interested or you are somehow afraid of the "liability of selling glass lenses". It's an opportunity to make a profit that you pass up.

    And consider this: Lenscrafters, Pearle Vision, and a host of other "big box store" retailers will measure PD's for free.

    Ok, I've gone on long enough and I'm probably now on the sh*t list for at least one or two of you...but I hope that you took the time to read and think about what I've had to say. Enjoy the rest of your day!
    Hi there!
    I'm going to play "devil's advocate" for a moment....maybe the laws/rules are different in each state, but my concern here is IF I give them the PD that I measure and I find correct, then I am responsible for that measurement (at least that's what we were told in NC Optical Law class)....Now, let's say that the patient enters the wrong number and the glasses are made to the number the patient entered, incorrectly, then who's to say that I didn't give them that number?? It becomes a case of "he-said"/"she-said", doesn't it?
    Last edited by Now I See; 07-14-2010 at 10:35 AM.
    ___________________________________________

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    That's a good point, Heather. I would say that, yes, you are correct, it is your responsibility. However, your responsibility for what the patient does with it ends at the door of your practice.

    There's an excellent way to prevent such things from happening: write it down on one of your regular Rx pads -- with the notation that you've only measured the PD. Written documentation goes a long way to avoiding liability (as I'm sure they told you in your law class). If there is a transposition error, or data entry error on the part of the "patient", and you've written down the correct number, you don't have a problem. It's their problem. They made the mistake. Yeah, the blame game is an easy one to make, but written documentation backs up your side.

    I had a customer that reported to me 5 different PD's given to her by 4 different practices (and one "big box"). 4 were measured by PD stick, one by electronic device. Which was the correct one? It turned out that the PD given to her by her personal OD and the optician at their attached lab was wrong - they had measured it wrong. Even the electronic device reported the wrong PD. When she went back to the OD/optician and showed them the list, they were shocked. They went back and remeasured her and switched her to a monocular measurement. And remade her personal glasses at no charge. That practice is in my notes as one that can be counted on to be a "good guy". I refer those of my customers who live in that area to that practice when I can.

    I guess the point here is that mistakes happen. People will understand an honest mistake and correct it. No one is perfect. Not even electronic devices.

  7. #57
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    mike

    Mike :
    We can't survive on PD charges . We don't want to be deregulated like BC . We are paying for Bricks and mortar stores not on line stores. Our expenses are higher. Why should we make you legitimate ? Getting a PD is your problem not our problem . You are putting your operation onto our overhead. Are you willing to pay us to provide your PD's ? Are you willing to pay us a portion of our overhead to provide you this service ?

    Why not ?

    Please abide by the rules of this forum as it relates to posting pricing information.

  8. #58
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    Also, if I wanted to be a cheap-suit-cheap kind of operation, I'd have done that. We are full service. we spend lots of time fitting, suggesting, learning the wearing pattern of the patient, and so forth. We do superb follow-up service. I can't do the fast shuffle on people, I just can't. You seem to think I should be able to. Cheap is cheap.

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    Ok - but how many walk-ins for PD requests do you actually get? You make it sound like there is a thundering horde at your front door. As far as making me legitimate, that's a moot point. I'm already legitimate. You (meaning the broad base of dispensing opticians) did it yourself when you refused to sell a product that your patient can't afford. We can go back and forth on this all day...but I'd rather not. It's been debated to death and then some.

    I'm not the bad guy here, and neither are you. Nor is the patient/customer. You freely give your patient a copy of their Rx upon request (yes, the gummint made you do it, but still...). As I said earlier, I don't eat into your profits or your sales. My particular products are highly specialized and not readily available. So far this year, I've sold about 1000 pairs of non-prescription specialty filter eyewear. In that same time period, I sold somewhere around 45 prescriptions in those same highly specialized and not readily available filters to retail customers, 500+ (general glass and special filters) Rx's to labs/dispensing opticians. I'd LOVE, dearly LOVE to sell to you so you could sell to your patients. But time and again, that ugly word "glass" comes up and the optician/dispenser runs screaming for the fallout shelter. If you (again, broad you) won't sell my products, I am forced to sell to the patient/customer.

    Degregulation is usually brought about because of complaints by consumers. The optical industry was forced to provide prescriptions to their patients because of complaints. Isn't the PD part of the prescription? I believe it is. You can't manufacture the prescription without it. It's a critical measurement, just as sphere, cylinder, axis, prism and add power is. If you start writing down the PD at the time of the exam, you won't get walk-in's asking to be measured. PD's aren't proprietary in any way whatsoever. They don't belong to you any more than the prescription does.

    And as far as pricing information -- I didn't post any pricing information about specific wholesalers/dealers/manufacturers. It was posted as an EXAMPLE, nothing more, and to prove my point: there are people in anyone's city who need inexpensive eyewear. If they can't get it locally, they WILL find it on the internet. Are these people somehow inferior or bad? I'd bet most of them, as noted above by someone else, have fallen on hard times due to the economy. You have a market just waiting to be tapped, but from what I've seen, no one except the internet operations are willing to step up to the plate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    Also, if I wanted to be a cheap-suit-cheap kind of operation, I'd have done that. We are full service. we spend lots of time fitting, suggesting, learning the wearing pattern of the patient, and so forth. We do superb follow-up service. I can't do the fast shuffle on people, I just can't. You seem to think I should be able to. Cheap is cheap.
    Actually, no, I don't expect you to do "fast shuffle". And I don't recall using the word "cheap". I believe I wrote "economy". Maybe the word means the same, but to me, it means a product line that is less expensive. A frame (AS AN EXAMPLE) that sells for $10 and a pair of uncuts from one of the well-known on-shore manufacturers. There's demand for it, as evidenced by the booming business that the on-line operations appear to be doing. You've already got the patient in your chair for an exam. He/she is ready to buy, but because of home finances, they can't afford (EXAMPLE) $300 on top of the exam costs. They can find it on the internet for (EXAMPLE) $65. Where do you think they are going to go?

    Just because you don't give them their PD, doesn't mean they still won't go for the least expensive option. That's what people do in an economy like this. Where is the business right now? Are lots of folks still buying the top dollar frames and top of the line lenses? Or are they spending less money on frames and lenses?

    You (broad you) have to compete for your customers/patients. This is the new dynamic. It isn't going to go away. What's the best way to compete? Offer a product they can afford to purchase. Can anyone compete with an on-line lab? Sure they can. Just because they don't have a retail store doesn't mean they don't have a facility somewhere with lots of employees and lots of equipment. They are exactly the same as the large optical lab operations. Same costs. Same expenses. The only thing that they do differently is that instead of having dispensing opticians on the floor greeting patients in a showroom, they have a file server receiving orders. THAT IS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE (caps for emphasis).

    What do you have? A dispensing optician on the floor greeting patients in a showroom. Experienced personnel ready to talk and make a sale. A face-to-face relationship that you can't get over the internet. You automatically engender trust. Your business has been there for many years. They walk in your door because they want to do business with you. Are you going to let them walk back out without a sale?

  11. #61
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    What kind of filters and lenses do you sell ? Do you have a web site ?

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    Why not provide the pd? And not just the numbers but the numbers committed to paper making sure that they see the pupillometer reading. People tend to view digital readouts as gospel and pd stick readings as magic.

    Then encourage them to come back with their internet glasses for verification, hoping of course that they are dissatisfied and ready to order a new pair from a real optical shop.

    I haven't had any internet glasses under the lensometer. I'm very curious to know if they are any good. That way I can answer the question everybody asks me: Glasses are glasses, right? Internet glasses are way cheaper, so why not buy them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    I haven't had any internet glasses under the lensometer. I'm very curious to know if they are any good. That way I can answer the question everybody asks me: Glasses are glasses, right? Internet glasses are way cheaper, so why not buy them?
    From what you can see in a lensometer, they're probably fine. Getting the power right, grinding the right backside curve, is the easy part. Automation can address much of this. We see lots of glasses problems from outside our practice that have nothing to do with lens power. There is so much more to it than that.

    I probably owe some apology to MikeA for lumping him with other on-liners; perhaps he doesn't have the cynical twist of mind that wants to use people like us(people stupid enough to pay rent and inventory costs) to compensate for the shortcomings of their business model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    I probably owe some apology to MikeA for lumping him with other on-liners; perhaps he doesn't have the cynical twist of mind that wants to use people like us(people stupid enough to pay rent and inventory costs) to compensate for the shortcomings of their business model.
    Nahhh, no worries, but much appreciated!! I occasionally come of a bit brash and sometimes brusk - I'll tell you exactly what I think, I usually don't sugar coat it.

    I don't take a cynical point of view of "our" business. There are a lot of different ways to operate a business these days, and I honestly don't think you should view the on-line operation as a bad thing. The patient/customer HAS to start with his butt in your exam chair. There is still (and for the long forseeable future) no way to get an exam, thorough and complete, on-line. But, you have complete control as to what happens after that. I believe that this is where the old-school model fails. It was originally predicated on the basis of the doctors office with an attached dispensary. The patient was pretty much locked in to buy his/her eyewear in your store. That model disappeared when the FTC (or whoever) decided that the patient has the right to buy their eyewear anywhere they want.

    By the way, I totally disagree with your statement that the on-line retail does not have rent and inventory costs. I'd be willing to bet that their rent costs are higher than yours and that they carry perhaps as much as three times as much inventory as you do. Just because a business is on-line does not mean the do not have a physical location, inventory, employees and insurance.

    [warning: I'm about to get blunt, read only at the risk of your high blood pressure.] Instead of changing with the times, and accepting change as a good thing, the average doctor/optician decided that change, especially that change was not a good thing. Then, the optical "super stores" started opening up. This occured about the time that CR-39 started making major inroads on the glass industry (I was there, I know). Lenscrafters and their 'glasses in an hour' changed the industry pretty much overnight. What did the doctor/dispenser do? Kept on with the same business model. Deregulation and more changes in the business. Polycarbonate. In-mold polarized lenses. Transitions. Progressives (I still say they have lousy optics and will never wear them personally). Doctor/dispenser model still doesn't change. On-line dispensing. Model still hasn't changed, but now the doctor/dispenser is really starting to feel a pinch. Lousy economy. On-line dispensing gains some significant business share. Has the model changed yet? Nope. It's been 15 to 18 years and the model is exactly the same despite obvious proof that it can't compete.

    You (broad you) get mad when someone innocently asks for a PD measurement. You (broad you) come up with all sorts of reasons NOT to do it, or to figure out a way to make a profit off of it. Look -- the model doesn't apply any longer. You need to come up with a new approach.

    ...wait for it...




    Why aren't you competing with the on-line stores locally? Why don't you put up a on-line store yourself for your "local" patients (maybe with a 100 mile radius). Offer your patients a way to order their eyewear on-line, give them a discount because they do it on-line but follow it up with an in-person delivery and fitting. Send a letter to all your patients giving them the website address and perhaps a customer code of some kind that will link an Rx record to their order.

    Instead of saying no, find a way to say yes.

    My lady once told me that once you stop trying to win, you can have a conversation. Have that conversation with your patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    From what you can see in a lensometer, they're probably fine. Getting the power right, grinding the right backside curve, is the easy part. Automation can address much of this. We see lots of glasses problems from outside our practice that have nothing to do with lens power. There is so much more to it than that.

    All our hypothetical Aunt Bertha knows is that the optician at such-and-such place tried to sell her something called AR which added a hundred bucks to her bill, but she found glasses at the z place with AR for five bucks additional. So she feels cheated by Mr. Brick and Mortar. We know she isn't getting Crizal from the z place, but it will be easier to let the peeling and crazing start on her internet glasses than to try and explain the difference.

    Never mind trying to point out that all the z place does is take half of the B, because they are halfway around the world and can't see where her pupil is in the lens. For all they know, they've put her pupil right in the distortion zone, but what the hey. If the first pair of $39.00 glasses don't work, she can buy a half a dozen more and still save money. One pair has to work, right?

    I have my doubts that internet labs are essentially the same as stateside wholesale labs, too. Cheap cut rate untrained overseas labor, cheap cut rate products. Oh yeah, it's all the same. Sure it is.

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    And there's your opportunity staring you right in the face. How are you going to handle it? How are you going to compete?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    And there's your opportunity staring you right in the face. How are you going to handle it? How are you going to compete?
    The only thing the majority of consumers are interested in with glasses is price. Until the glasses don't work. Then people suddenly develop a concern about their vision. The initial reason they went to the internet remains the same and so does the dilemma- no optical shop can compete with the internet for price unless they want to skirt all the laws that say they have to pay the lab workers minimum wage etc.

    I'm thinking it's best to aid and abet people buying their first pair online, then hope they come back to the nice optician who helped them get their pd so they could place the order. But protect yourself by showing them the pupillometer readout, and make sure they write it down while they are looking at it. Because when they complain to their overseas EC provider, the measurements will be the first place they put the blame for bad eyewear. What else can they blame it on? Their own poor quality control?

    Realize that I'm assuming the eyewear is bad without really knowing. I know that I can check it out for badness way more effectively than the ordinary consumer can. I would be willing to do that just to find out if internet glasses are as bad as we make them out to be.

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    @Mikey!

    Let's get one thing straight....If you can stand at the nearest intersection in my jurisdiction I operate in, and legally do what you do, then you have CREDIBILITY,

    If you can legally do in your local jurisdiction, i.e. dispense, then you have CREDIBILITY, and I may assist your customer, as your proxy. BUT......if you can not dispense in any jurisdiction to the general public, you are a hazard. I, must, therefore, in the interest of public safety, and as a healthcare worker, protect the public from you.

    Show me your license to dispense in Canada!

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    What are you afraid of, uncut? That I sold a pair of prescription specialized filter lenses in Canada? I'd have to go back and check, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've shipped any prescription eyewear to anyone in Canada. I've certainly shipped a few pair to US border towns, but I don't immediately recall any prescriptions going to Canada. Plenty of non-prescription stuff, but no Rx's. Sorry to burst your balloon.

    Protect the public from me???? LMAO @ uncut...that's a good one, bud.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAurelius View Post
    What are you afraid of, uncut? That I sold a pair of prescription specialized filter lenses in Canada? I'd have to go back and check, but off the top of my head, I don't think I've shipped any prescription eyewear to anyone in Canada. I've certainly shipped a few pair to US border towns, but I don't immediately recall any prescriptions going to Canada. Plenty of non-prescription stuff, but no Rx's. Sorry to burst your balloon.

    Protect the public from me???? LMAO @ uncut...that's a good one, bud.
    LYAO all you want.
    Part of my occupation is to ensure the general public is safely served. To that end...providing a lab information to partially produce a RX medical device would be a risk of harm, IMO, shared by many.

    The general public can order anything they want for their own use, or for an immediate family member, but it is illegal for them to do it for someone else. This is the law in my country. Your begging ECPs to help you produce product that you could not do legally here, is pathetic.

  21. #71
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    The on-line eyeglass suppliers are based on a parasitic business model. To maintain lower prices these outlets must depend on knowledgeable optical professionals for support in measurements and product support. Once access to this base is denied, such ventures quickly encounter customer service issues that cannot readily be addressed.

    A typical brick and mortar store has overhead the on-line suppliers can avoid such as qualified staff, inventory, and physical location. Employees in these optical retails must generate income to sustain the operation and, when calculated, this translates into a minimum amount each employee must bring in daily to pay basic costs. Each hour wasted, i.e., taking free measurements, repairing eyeglasses purchased elsewhere, verifying prescriptions from on-line suppliers, actually harms this effort. In other words there is no free lunch, only parasitic drag on an operation.

    If you operate a brick and mortar outlet and would like to expand into the parasitic model, I suggest that you contact the online suppliers and offer to purchase their products for 10 - 20% under cost. That would allow you to pass on savings to the public and increase gross sales for the on-line operations.

    Roy

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncut View Post
    Your begging ECPs to help you produce product that you could not do legally here, is pathetic.
    BEGGING? I've done no such thing. And actually, if I was a resident of Canada, I could very well do it "legally". But since I'm not, the whole point of your comment is moot.

  23. #73
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    I am so FIRMLY in disagreement regarding the idea that "people are, more than ever, poor and cannot afford eyewear in B&Ms, and must seek online."

    Heck, I send them to COSTCO, where the quality, cost and service by skilled and licensed NYS Ophthalmic dispensers are a given. When you compare Costco to online, their is no comparison.

    And did Costco Optical put YOU out of business?

    Sheesh!

    B

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy R. Ferguson View Post
    A typical brick and mortar store has overhead the on-line suppliers can avoid such as qualified staff, inventory, and physical location. Employees in these optical retails must generate income to sustain the operation and, when calculated, this translates into a minimum amount each employee must bring in daily to pay basic costs. Each hour wasted, i.e., taking free measurements, repairing eyeglasses purchased elsewhere, verifying prescriptions from on-line suppliers, actually harms this effort. In other words there is no free lunch, only parasitic drag on an operation.
    Roy, with all due respect, this is a very common mis-perception. On-line business HAVE to have a physical location somewhere in order to produce their product. They have to have inventory in order to produce their product. They have to have staff (yes, qualified) to produce their product. As proof, you use the negatively connoted word "parasitic". In fact they are no more parasitic than the brick and mortar store down the street from you that competes with your store.

    With the advent of computerized laboratory processing, so-called "unskilled" or perhaps "untrained" labor can make eyewear that meets every single quality standard you care to present.

    What is missing, as I've pointed out above, is the personal interaction to finish the sale. There are no fitting, no adjustments, nothing like that. This is YOUR opportunity to turn the eyewear experience around with the patient.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Santini View Post
    I am so FIRMLY in disagreement regarding the idea that "people are, more than ever, poor and cannot afford eyewear in B&Ms, and must seek online."
    Barry -- you need to get outside NYC and into the real world.

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