Compensated Auto II Attitude??

[2020idock]

How does everyone handle making changes when there is a problem with one of the compensated FF lenses? Have run into this situation on a couple of occasions over the past year and still not sure of the best way to handle. Last one I switched from a Autograph II back to a Physio 360 on a high myope and things were perfect.
Current problem:
Rx OD +1.25-1.00x077
OS +1.00-0.75x105
Add +1.50
Compensated Rx OD +1.53-1.08x078 Prism 2.03@279 Add 1.37 BC 8.5
OS +1.28-0.85x103 Prism 2.05@259 Add 1.35 BC 8.5
Rx is correct and a -0.25 OR seems to make the difference for the patient. What is the best way to make this change with the lab?

[Craig]

How does everyone handle making changes when there is a problem with one of the compensated FF lenses? Have run into this situation on a couple of occasions over the past year and still not sure of the best way to handle. Last one I switched from a Autograph II back to a Physio 360 on a high myope and things were perfect.
Current problem:
Rx OD +1.25-1.00x077
OS +1.00-0.75x105
Add +1.50
Compensated Rx OD +1.53-1.08x078 Prism 2.03@279 Add 1.37 BC 8.5
OS +1.28-0.85x103 Prism 2.05@259 Add 1.35 BC 8.5
Rx is correct and a -0.25 OR seems to make the difference for the patient. What is the best way to make this change with the lab?

I have had major issues with the compensation from Shamir and there is a trick to turning off the compensation; I told Shamir what I was doing and they told me I am the only one having problems and if I change the RX to trick the compensation I am illegally changing the doctors prescription. I then asked them why they had the only imperial formula for legal RX changes and my version was illegal!! :hammer:

I have made an offer to tell anyone the trick, but it will cost you a $25 donation to charity; mine would be great, www.weewaggin.com or any will do.

It is guaranteed to work or the i will also donate another $25 to the charity.

Please PM me if interested.

Craig

[Uncle Fester]

How does everyone handle making changes when there is a problem with one of the compensated FF lenses? Have run into this situation on a couple of occasions over the past year and still not sure of the best way to handle. Last one I switched from a Autograph II back to a Physio 360 on a high myope and things were perfect.
Current problem:
Rx OD +1.25-1.00x077
OS +1.00-0.75x105
Add +1.50
Compensated Rx OD +1.53-1.08x078 Prism 2.03@279 Add 1.37 BC 8.5
OS +1.28-0.85x103 Prism 2.05@259 Add 1.35 BC 8.5
Rx is correct and a -0.25 OR seems to make the difference for the patient. What is the best way to make this change with the lab?

What does OR stand for?

[optical24/7]

Something is way wrong with that comp. Especially the amount of prism. I ran the above Rx through Darryl's wrap calculator ( with other info you omitted, I estimated)..

Comp came out;

OD +1.12 -87 x 79 .37 BI
OS +.87 -.62 x 103 .37 BI

The comp you got also looks way over plused.

I used 9 degrees for panto, 18 for wrap 34 mono PD's and 60/18 size frame. Darryl's comp formula calculator has been very accurate for me.

[2020idock]

What does OR stand for?

Over-Refraction

Something is way wrong with that comp. Especially the amount of prism. I ran the above Rx through Darryl's wrap calculator ( with other info you omitted, I estimated)..

Comp came out;

OD +1.12 -87 x 79 .37 BI
OS +.87 -.62 x 103 .37 BI

The comp you got also looks way over plused.

I used 9 degrees for panto, 18 for wrap 34 mono PD's and 60/18 size frame. Darryl's comp formula calculator has been very accurate for me.

I am in agreement about the over plus in the compensation(I was not thinking it was as much difference as your formula shows though) but my question is how do I work with the lab to adjust it. I know my initial Rx is good, can I just tell them to shut off the compensation and go with a formula like Darryl's? The Panto is 9 and Wrap is 20.0 with a 64/17 frame so you were close on the estimations.

[optical24/7]

I run the calc myself and tell my lab to not compensate.


Was that comp your lab came up with really call for 2.05 prism? That alone would be a problem. No comp at all would have been better than what they came up with. I would point out to them that there is an error in their software or their input of info..

[HarryChiling]

The Kbco calculator used to have the same issue, the reason for the high amount of prism is more than likely due to prism thinning being added to compensated prism. If you provide the segment height and frame dimensions it should be easier to figure out what the problem might be from. I have noticed that many of the offices having issues with wrap compensated lenses are supplying the data to the lab rather than sending the frame in for tracing.

Unfortunately using your own comps will only work on the Auto I and Element which are great products, but don't allow proper selection of base curves. Keep in mind that Shamir has designed Kaenon and Maui Jims passports which have very little issues so they have a proven track record with wrap compensations.

[2020idock]

The Kbco calculator used to have the same issue, the reason for the high amount of prism is more than likely due to prism thinning being added to compensated prism. If you provide the segment height and frame dimensions it should be easier to figure out what the problem might be from. I have noticed that many of the offices having issues with wrap compensated lenses are supplying the data to the lab rather than sending the frame in for tracing.

Unfortunately using your own comps will only work on the Auto I and Element which are great products, but don't allow proper selection of base curves. Keep in mind that Shamir has designed Kaenon and Maui Jims passports which have very little issues so they have a proven track record with wrap compensations.

Thank you for the information Harry. I have Maui Jim and Kaenon and very seldom have issues with either of them. My optical almost always sends the frame to the lab in this situation so we can get the best job possible. I'm pretty sure the seg ht is 21

[Craig]

[QUOTE=HarryChiling;347394]The Kbco calculator used to have the same issue, the reason for the high amount of prism is more than likely due to prism thinning being added to compensated prism. If you provide the segment height and frame dimensions it should be easier to figure out what the problem might be from. I have noticed that many of the offices having issues with wrap compensated lenses are supplying the data to the lab rather than sending the frame in for tracing.

Unfortunately using your own comps will only work on the Auto I and Element which are great products, but don't allow proper selection of base curves. Keep in mind that Shamir has designed Kaenon and Maui Jims passports which have very little issues so they have a proven track record with wrap compensations.[/QUOTE

Maui Jim and Kaenon have the same issues with Shamir, excessive compensation and thickness! The Attitude product does not allow you to turn off the compensation; I could not even get the defaults used by Shamir nor can you specify the fitting numbers. THey use secret defaults for all products based on the curve picked.

Craig

[NewTop]

Something is way wrong with that comp. Especially the amount of prism. I ran the above Rx through Darryl's wrap calculator ( with other info you omitted, I estimated)..

Comp came out;

OD +1.12 -87 x 79 .37 BI
OS +.87 -.62 x 103 .37 BI

The comp you got also looks way over plused.

I used 9 degrees for panto, 18 for wrap 34 mono PD's and 60/18 size frame. Darryl's comp formula calculator has been very accurate for me.

Most of the prism is thinning prism @270 because it is a progressive. IMHO the wrap angle that youve given your lab is wrong, lowering it by 7 degrees would lower the power 0.20 dpt and solve the problem. Let me explain:

Darryls Rx Compensator is a great tool to calculate compensation, I often use it! But if you print the compensated you see that the wrap is being recalclated. Do you know why?
For compensating lenses you must know what the angle is that the visial axis makes with the the optical medium. If you have the total angle of the frame is would ok if the lenses had a bc of 0 But the lenses have a bc of 8. You cannot calculate the angle of the visual axis with the optical medium from this value. You should measure the facial wrap (the angle that the lenses make) at the location of the pupil to know what the angle of the visual axis with the optical medium is.

So if you have a frame with a total wrap of 22 and the patient has a pd of 58, the actual number to give your lab could be 15. You can measure this with a panorameter.

[NewTop]

Maui Jim and Kaenon have the same issues with Shamir, excessive compensation and thickness! The Attitude product does not allow you to turn off the compensation; I could not even get the defaults used by Shamir nor can you specify the fitting numbers. THey use secret defaults for all products based on the curve picked.

Craig

The default is set by the lab, here in Europe the lab in Portugal uses wrap 15 tilt 9 for all attitude lenses unlessyou provide the data.

[2020idock]

Shamir technical assistance felt like it was wrong as well and have made the suggestion to have the lab re-enter the data to double check for any entry errors and have the lab call Shamir for further assistance.

[2020idock]

A redo after discussion between the lab and Shamir seemed to give much better results. Took a while for this patient to be able to wear his new sunglasses but in the end it worked out great.

[Craig]

I am glad your patient can now see. What took so long? What changes where made and is client thrilled or just able to wear them?
Any wow factor; other than all the energy it took to get a pair of glasses.
Craig

[2020idock]

I am glad your patient can now see. What took so long? What changes where made and is client thrilled or just able to wear them?
Any wow factor; other than all the energy it took to get a pair of glasses.
Craig

Craig, I am not sure exactly when he got them or how long it took as I was on vacation and just remembered to come back and update the thread. Being I did not dispense them I don't know about the WOW but he was very happy. I think that you are right in that the biggest WOW was my wondering how it could be that far off from what I prescribed!! I glanced at the invoice and to the best of my recollection the comp was about .12D more plus with about .24 prism in each.

[One science]

I have had major issues with the compensation from Shamir and there is a trick to turning off the compensation; I told Shamir what I was doing and they told me I am the only one having problems and if I change the RX to trick the compensation I am illegally changing the doctors prescription. I then asked them why they had the only imperial formula for legal RX changes and my version was illegal!! :hammer:

I have made an offer to tell anyone the trick, but it will cost you a $25 donation to charity; mine would be great, www.weewaggin.com or any will do.

It is guaranteed to work or the i will also donate another $25 to the charity.

Please PM me if interested.

Craig

For now i don't need, but i'll take it into account for the future. I wanted to congrats you for the idea and also to know what did the ones from Shamir told you, what reason?

[Craig]

I am never informed by Shamir, but I do speak with my lab on a regular basis; they have gone to going back to another version of software. It has helped slightly, but there is a new "prescriptor" on the way!
I am not very confident in getting it squared away so easy, this has been going on for years. I am glad to report the thickness problem has been resolved for the most part, but it could still be better.
I am always hopeful the future willl get better.

Craig