Deal or no deal?
OK, opinions needed. Do exam coupons work? Does it make sense to reduce the cost of the professional eye exam to bring in customers and increase new business? Do eyeglass coupons work? If the product prices are as high as the market can bear in a certain demographic area, is it unfair/unethical to raise prices just to discount them? I know this is done everyday but is it a good business practice? Thanks, my OB friends!
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
--Carl Jung
Do NOT discount exam fees. As for the rest, that's up to you, just don't devalue exams please.
I agree and have shared my opinion on that already with others. Just getting a idea of what others are thinking. Using the search option here on OB has been helpful, too :)Originally Posted by eyestrain
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
--Carl Jung
I agree, don't discount exams (not to mention you might have issues with any insurance you take). I personally have never been a big fan of raising the prices just so you can discount them back to their regular prices, it seems unethical to me. Of course I've never been a fan of discounting anything, it makes it look like your prices are to high.
We did try the eyeglass coupon once. The result was so-so. It drew a few people in that were new but probably 90% were the doctor's established patients using the coupon so we would have probably done eyewear for them with or without the coupon. Most of the new people were people who went back to the original doctor or went to the least expensive place they could find the following year.
Just my two cents.
I agree with Wolfman about raising prices just to discount them. It *does* make it look like your prices are so high that you can easily discount them. This makes you look like the Optical Chains out there wheeling and dealing. Ok, enough about that.
I say try to optimize sales from the patients you already have. You can offer a $ amt off a second pair or suns, could also offer a "free" upgrade to polarized or poly or a/r etc etc.
If there is a line thats been sitting around and not turning over blow em out of the store at a good price. There are a ton of ways of increasing revenue without discounting Professional services.
Opinions do not constitute sound business decisions - facts do, hence the use of coupons. Coupons provide you with a means to measure the efficacy of an advertising promotion.
It's not the prices you charge it's the cost you have.........................
Totally right it is unethical .................................
How about purchasing at lower prices, so that you can give discounts and maybe even make more profit?
There are many operations in this field where you can do profitable small jobs in house without much extra equipment. Don't push the highest priced additions push the ones you can do in house and very soon you will be ahead of the game.
A couple opticians not far from my business where the one sold exclusive expensive stuff that was all 100% done in a lab, drove a nice Volkswagen and the other who did everythings he could do himself and had lower prices, was driving a new Mercedes.
I agree...I think the ethics issue is VERY important, as I have always felt that discounting is similar to the managed vision care industry...and managed care does just that-increases the prices to discount them (I was recently told I was not 'business minded' because I balked at that idea). And I worked for a chain who bought the cheapest eyewear ($4.95), stuck a high price tag on it ($220.00) and after all the discounting was done, the patient still paid an over inflated price for a piece of junk. It gives us all a bad name. As far as edging in house, I think that's a great idea for down the road. The new practice in question is owned by an acquaintance of mine and the place needs to start seeing more traffic through the door first.
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
--Carl Jung
I agreed! Not to give discount on eye exams,this what makes us professional. But what can you say to those who give free eye test when purchasing whole Rx glasses;like a package deal,the patient will pay only for the frame and lenses but not for the eye test? Is it just to attract customers? Some are posting "free eye test" on their wall display,is it fair? Sometimes I'm wondering,how you will seperate business into being professional in our field?
Latest advertising in now deregulated BC
The Facts on a Vision Examination
- A Vision Examination is FREE if you purchase your eyewear from us. If you do not, there is a small fee of $49.00.
- A Vision Examination is performed by a trained Licensed Optician who is governed by the B.C. College of Opticians and the B.C. Health Act. The Optician performing the Vision Examination is certified in Auto Refraction.
- Vision Examinations are very accurate; millions have been performed with excellent results.
- You qualify for a Vision Examination if you are a healthy adult between the ages of 19-64, have had a full eye exam in the last five years, and have no other health conditions that affect your eyes.
- Vision Examinations are guaranteed. If for any reason you require an adjustment to your prescription, the lenses are re-made for you Free of charge.
My question to Google was "Free eyetest in BC" and there ia a whole load coming up.
Tat looks like the present and near future, most probably more to come inj the fight against online retailers.
That little sign that set out into mall traffic works, untill the people wait for the sign to change from 1/2 off exams to 2 for 1 glasses, then they are just giving the store away face it the marketers are looking for traffic, and the bean counters are looking to squeeze every nickel from anyone. Some where along the way, the optical proffesion starts to get cheapened
Raising prices to give discounts? Why even bother? Do you want them to get a deal or not? What sense is playing a shell game, when at the end of the game, the consumer will know (by comparing, and don't think they won't) they've been duped.
Don't even go there...
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
What is your pricing logic? Do you offer discounts or just fair pricing on all products? We do not discount lenses at all as they can get less expensive lenses if they choose. The frames are only discounted if we are getting rid of a collection and we offer the section with all frames $129. We do not sell many of them, but we do offer a complete no-lline package with frame for $350.
Our doctor is independent and we have no desire to get involved in offering an eye exam that can be percieved as cheap or discounted in any way! That is not the type of professional I want to see for my medial needs and hope the consumer feels the same way.
Craig
Both, but I was answering the other question of marking up to mark down.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Ask yourself this simple question: Is your business model that of a retail store, or rather that of a medical practice?
If your answer is of a more medical thrust, then I would ask yourself the following: The last time you were in to see your general practitioner, pediatrician, neurologist, dentist, cardiologist, allergist, psychiatrist, etc., did ANY of them offer you a discount on their services or products in order to entice you to "shop" with them, and not the other trained health care professional a few doors down the street? I would guess it likely they did not. Because their time, expertise, and even products they prescribe (not sell, prescribe) have a given worth and value.
Optometry and eye health care in general has shot itself in the proverbial foot for decades, and it's only getting worse. If I can steal from Fezz, I would use his own common admonishment: "Either your part of the solution, or you're part of the problem." And the problem is that optometry and opticianry, and even ophthalmology is giving away the farm. Out of what - fear that a cheap patient might go somewhere else? The internet? At the end of the day, is establishing that type of patient base really in the best interest of a healthy practice? Big box retail has shaped their entire business model's orbit around the "cost conscious shopper" - is that ALL you want to provide?
I suggest be MORE than that. Be MUCH more! Stop trying to be all things to all people - you can't, and you NEVER will be. At best, you'll be some small things to all people. Try, instead, being all things to a few people. You won't be disappointed, and you'll be highly successful - in ANY market!~
My own two pence
I am unequivocally, unabashedly, unrepentantly, a retail store. I sell things. I happen to sell things that need to be fit precisely, and I happen to be a fitter that fits better than my competition, regardless of whether they aspire to be a medical office, retail store, or somewhere in between. I have bought struggling "medical practices" and turned them into retail, with much success.
I don't give away the store. I have used the same formula for the last 23 years, and it has served me well. From the outside, some might think I give the store away, but I have no need to overcharge, as I'm not overpaying.
When I see ODs and MDs bristle at the mention of them being "retail" (heaven forbid), I always ask them how many people buy shoes from their podiatrist, as opposed to a shoe store.
I'm an eyeglass store.:cheers:
The only time we advertise special offers is when we have a grand opening, otherwise, we let our service, maybe our fair prices, bring people in. I see many professionals attempting to throw as many ideas at the wall as they can, in the hopes something will stick. Free exams, free frames, free, reduced whatever...There's a reason they're in this situation, and it's not difficult to guess why...
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
I understand the concept of deep discounts reducing value. But what about many insurance companies requiring us to offer discounts with no reimbursement. VSP, Eyemed, Blue Cross, etc? Up to 30%. In one of the offices I've worked at, we raised our costs to cover this and then offered a private pay discount.
I'm curious how those here that are so opposed to discounting would view this? Any other solutions to dealing with the required insurance discounts?
The prime directive of the insurance business is to maximize premiums and minimize claims.
We tossed around discounting the exam but decided against it. We did print up a nice new recall card which includes a coupon for $20.00. People will ignore a 20% off discount but they love a cash discount for some reason. Our exams generated by the recall cards are up since we started this.
Here, here.
I'm a retail store that sells service and a unique product. I sell .... Me.
Once I opined doing an ad for free exams and decided against it as it would only muddy the waters. I don't advertise discounts. and only advertise exclusivity and service. Let the chains kill themselves over the % discounts et al.
- Optician
- Frame Maker/Designer
- Teacher of the art of crafting handmade eyewear.
I don't think that this thread is very fair, because it could potentially harm a business as a result.
I took 4+ hours out of my day to go into the practice and offer suggestions on many different facets of this business. If I can toot my own horn, I have turned many a failing practice into a successful one and I feel as though my formula is a decent one and over time with experience and suggestions from others is being honed all the time to a razor shapr blade.
#1 - The prices in the practice was very very very low, this is what sparked the suggestion to raise prices. Th market can definitely bear more and if it can't then that location might not be the right place for her business. The office does not advertise and the location isn't the most optimal. I suggested raising prices to comparable levels, the doctor is comparing her prices to a 20+ year established practice in a horrible location that charges bare bones for everything to draw patients to them. Maybe after 20+ years of success she might be able to afford that but the practice she is comparing too has a loyal following an a steady patient base. From the looks of this doctors office, it shouldn't even attempt to be a low cost optical. Not to mention she has a super high end shop across the street from her which is charging primo prices.
#2 - The doctor never ran a successful grand opening or any other successful advertising campaign. The number one thing I suggested was that she try promotions that vary by month and was tailored to the holiday/major event in the month. I made sure to come in with a calendar and write down some of these events and gave her suggestions as to what could work. I also mentioned the entire time that I can not make up a promotion for her because I don't know her comfort level with any of this or what it takes to crack that nut. Of course this part is tied to the prices charged, if she plans on hosting events and planning promotions there better be money in the budget for it, this is not overcharging this is called business, no ethics involved.
"Raising prices to discount them", this phrase is what can lead to failure. She should raise prices because that's what it will take to cover her advertising, promotional costs, etc; I refer to these costs as overhead and see them as necessary. The doctor has cut out her advertising budget hoping that the reduction in her overhead is going to draw patients into the practice. Here is literally a million dollar tip, "There is always someone cheaper in town". I guess now that phrase can be, "there is always someone cheaper on the internet". Anyway her best bet is to reach out in the community in any way she can, events and promotions I have found are the best way, advertise people.
Here are some figures I went over with her, that have lead to great success with me:
8 to 10% lease = This is a standard and her store should be able to bring in a gross that brings her lease into this range otherwise things could get ugly.
25 to 35% COG = This is my personal preference, some go higher some go lower and some yet go way way way lower. I promise you this, my $4.95 frame sold for $220.00 is worth a lot more when I replace it no questions asked within 2 years when compared to your designer $120.00 product sold for keystone when it's discoed in 3 months. Think about that for a while, I suggested to her ways to lower the COGs on designer lines by bringing in some discoed frames in the same brand and selling them at the same price and warrantying them herself, that way the patient gets the supposed quality and the doctor makes additional profits to cover any warranty's she replaces in the future.
We went over many industry figures and I tried to give her a way to track changes and evaluate her business to see if she is moving in the right direction. I did recommend to her not to discount exams, as it cheapens her services.
I gave her a different frame of mind, or at least that was my goal. We tried to make revenue, money, and profit clean words once again. I tried to stay away from words like unethical, and I also stayed away from unethical avenues, but technically this is business and what's unethical today might be savvy tomorrow.
Ineed Chocolate call me if you want to know more details about what we discussed, I took 4+ hours out of my day and it was a evening that I could have been at home with my wife and child to give her advice and see if I could help. If you think any of the advice was bad advice I would think I deserve the courtesy of a phone call before posting it on the internet and out of context. Also I have spent time since then putting together resources for her office and plan to see her office become successful.
Last edited by HarryChiling; 05-09-2010 at 07:38 PM.
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Harry,
I was answering general questions posted by Indeed, and had no idea that these were asked as second opinions to what you had offered.
I did not jump into this thread until the "raise prices to discount them" part was posted. I assumed they were talking about temporarily raising them to temporarily discount them, a practice that I find to be highly unethical.
If someone has inside information such as demographics, product mix, staff, pricing, etc..., then any advice that person would give would (should) trump any suggestions given in an online forum. That is a given.
I once did consulting for an OD, and three years later, I went back to find the office shuttered, and the OD working for a big-box, paying back her loans. I heard from other sources that she thought the money she paid me (really a paltry sum) was the worst money she'd ever spent. I have to agree with her, for if you pay someone for advice,and you choose to ignore it, you are simply throwing good money after bad.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you were helping this practice out as a goodwill gesture, and although you didn't expect to be, were not even financially compensated for your time and efforts.
If this practice wanted a second opinion, they should have given the second person the same information to work with, and not thrown it out for the peanut gallery to toss around.
I don't blame you for being more than a little agitated, and I can say that I would be as well.
No harm intended...
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
OK, let's go back to my original question. But, first allow me to clarify a few things. I was merely posing the above-mentioned questions (see original post) because this person hired me, as an optician, to work in her location....as an optician. I was merely asking (Optiboard) if people thought discounting works. It was then presented to me that an idea of a particular coupon was an option and my feedback was requested. I am asking only because I would like to see her business succeed. But, first, she needs TRAFFIC to come throught the door, and exams on the books. I am not in favor of discounting. I also do not like couons. I feel she has a great service to sell (herself) and some wonderful product in her store. and, although I may not agree on her price structure, it is what it is. As a reminder, I stated: "I think the ethics issue is VERY important, as I have always felt that discounting is similar to the managed vision care industry...and managed care does just that-increases the prices to discount them (I was recently told I was not 'business minded' because I balked at that idea)." We all may find it unethical to participate in this practice, but it is my opinion that if you accept any discount and managed vision care plans, you are already participating in this unethical practice of profit. It's the world of retail...and unfortauntely, we are not just a part of a medical practice, we are also retail. It's a mixed bag.
Harry, I am sorry if you feel I stepped out of line. You were consulted because I was given your name to forward to her as a professional who could give her good adivice. I had been invited to stay for your meeting that day, but was unable to, due to a previous engagement. I might add, I PM'd you regarding all this, and did not receive a reponse. I wasn't aware that you spent so much time there, nor was I aware of the specifics of your conversation. Most probably, your advice would have been more helpful had it been sought out before she opened her practice, rather than after. Alas, I was merely trying to help, but I will back off from this discussion, as I somehow I feel as though I am being misunderstood as some sort of unethical idiot who doesn't know anything about business practices. My intention was merely to ask the opinion of others. I'll go back to being an Optician now.
"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves."
--Carl Jung
From my viewpoint, nobody here is unethical. I think that the practice of "raising to lower" just needs to be differentiated between the "baiting" type, and setting a fair price (it may have to be set high if discounting is to be standard practice) and regularly giving price breaks. Again, I was addressing only the temporary raising. I think the confusion is just a matter of semantics, and the word "raise" should be substituted with the word "set".
In this economy, people are looking for deals. Not just poor people, but people of every background and SES. I have a friend that has a chain of gourmet chocolate stores. In the middle of this recession, he has opened 2 more offices, but because of the geographical area he has opened in, he has taken the words "gourmet chocolate" out of the name, and replaced it with "candy". His sales are fine, and having made this calculated change may be a contributing factor. He regularly has specials, but he has "set" his prices high enough to be able to absorb the cut, while still covering his overhead, and leaving room for profit.
In many relationships, there is often an attraction that brings two parties together, that might not be the reason they stay together. In love it's often a physical attraction, but 40 years later, it has become much more. In sales, discounts often attract, but it is the service and products that keep them coming back.I feel she has a great service to sell (herself) and some wonderful product in her store. and, although I may not agree on her price structure, it is what it is.
If the potential customers never enter your office, all the "wonderful product" won't make a difference. Again, since we don't know the specifics, except that, "The prices in the practice was very very very low..." and,"The office does not advertise and the location isn't the most optimal...", all we can see is that something needs to change. Like that old saying goes, "If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting."
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
Johns says it well. THINK RETAIL. If you are going to sell eyeglasses you must do this today. I have been in the retail optical business over fifty years and can open a "store" anywhere of my choosing and make it work. I change how I do business with each new location and quickly learn the market I'm in and the other optical shops near me. With most people being over priced today due to insurance and the high cost of goods, over priced most of the time, it is easy to have the best price and the best service around. When you start out you MUST let folk know you are there. ADVERTISE,ADVERTISE. Some of it will work better than others and may even seem like a waste. However, if 20k people know where you are, you will probably have slow growth. If 100,000k people know you will have more business. As Harry said, and I'm sure Johns will agree, keep the rent down. A sure fire way to fail is to open a "HIGH END" store. Throw in a SUPER DUPER HIGH DOLLAR EDGER and spend your money that should go to advertising and watch it fail. I TAKE NO INSURANCE,NONE. I SELL NO CONTACTS,NONE. I have the BEST PRODUCT AT THE " BEST PRICE" AND SERVICE SECOND TO NONE, and I say this when I advertise. I'm just glad Johns is not in my territory.
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