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Thread: Changes in British Columbia

  1. #76
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    With all politics aside, I don't see how this is good for patients at all. Especially their ocular health. For example, just today I saw a healthy 37yo WM with no complaints and 20/20 vision. Just wanted to renew the CL Rx. After my exam it was clear he was a glaucoma suspect. I ran a GDx and it confirmed he had moderate (not mild) glaucoma. 5 to 10 years of no Tx could have been devastating. Luckily I will start him on an Rx and hopefully control the glaucoma. It is my understanding that a patient like this would be allowed to get an Rx from an optician in BC (or just reorder the Rx by seeing no-one) and end up with severe vision loss.

    Patients WILL mistake an optician refraction for an eye exam.

  2. #77
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    Sight testing is has always been advertised or promoted as an "eye exam" ("it's all computerized now") since 80% get their glasses where they get their eyes checked.
    The problem is for patients that have never had a full eye exam will not know the difference unless they finally have a complete eye exam that takes more than 5min.

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    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 10-23-2010 at 03:11 PM.

  4. #79
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    My question is if we have to start giving out PD's who is liable if they aren't right? Sounds like the consumer is on the hook for faulty eyewear! I know I won't be touching anything that comes into my store that I didn't sell

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    Quote Originally Posted by esqoptical View Post
    My question is if we have to start giving out PD's who is liable if they aren't right? Sounds like the consumer is on the hook for faulty eyewear! I know I won't be touching anything that comes into my store that I didn't sell
    You are in BC . How do you feel about sight testing ?

    How do you feel about internet vendors selling eyeglasses and contacts on line ? Are they doing it with an optician ? How do you feel about them blitzing cities and giving away hundreds of glasse for FREE ?

    How do you feel about not charging for your patient file and handing out PD's for nothing ? Did internet vendors pay for your education or tools and equipment ?

    It is one thing between professionals,who paid for their similiar educations to assist one another, but it is a crime for uneducated entrepeneurs to cheapen our professions while they bottom feed off of us at the risk of the health of the unsuspecting public who do not know what they do not understand.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by esqoptical View Post
    My question is if we have to start giving out PD's who is liable if they aren't right? Sounds like the consumer is on the hook for faulty eyewear! I know I won't be touching anything that comes into my store that I didn't sell
    Give out your PD'S willingly , and yor seg heights too, but why not just hand over your pay check to the customer instead ? It is all about money , not PD's .


    Why not give out the info the Ministry of Health jerks & your College jerks agreed to , but do it this way : record in the patient file an encrypted number or reference , that is only decipherable to you . And only you can un-decipher it . You will have complied with the law, but the info will be useless to any one else. No one says you have to record in millimeters or nanometers , inches or exponents . Do it your way so it is meaningful to only you .

    The public does not know what they do not know . The Ministry of Health is hiding behind "public protectionsim" when in fact they do not give a damn about protecting the public. So you comply but you comply your way .

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    You are in BC . How do you feel about sight testing ?

    How do you feel about internet vendors selling eyeglasses and contacts on line ? Are they doing it with an optician ? How do you feel about them blitzing cities and giving away hundreds of glasses for FREE ?

    How do you feel about not charging for your patient file and handing out PD's for nothing ? Did internet vendors pay for your education or tools and equipment ?

    It is one thing between professionals,who paid for their similar educations to assist one another, but it is a crime for uneducated entrepreneurs to cheapen our professions while they bottom feed off of us at the risk of the health of the unsuspecting public who do not know what they do not understand.
    No one saw this coming at all! Opticians & O.D.'s have been trying to move forward and increase their scopes and not really getting anywhere, then some internet provider based in B.C. who has lots of $ seems to convince the corrupt Govt that this is the way to go!
    I for one don't work for free and don't plan to. Where is it said that a PD is part of an Rx? That has always been part of dispensing.

  8. #83
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    Patients WILL mistake an optician refraction for an eye exam.[/QUOTE

    Yes a refraction is not a eye exam but with the proper training and qualifying examination process can be preformed by a competent optician.
    Can a GP during a patient's annual physical also check for symptoms and signs in regards to ocular health? GP's also prescribe but do not dispense and there fore there is no conflict of interest with them. Glasses are an added revenue generator in a optometrists practice while contact lenses can be considered a medical device as they rest directly on the eye. Let's turn the clock back and charge proper prices for contact lenses as it is the chair time when done properly we should be charging for. Then perhaps optometry will lessen there grip on glasses which is a task they usually delegate to a staff member.

  9. #84
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    opticians should go fee based

    PD: $40
    Seg Height: $45
    New frame fit: $60
    Adjustment: $20
    Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-optician
    Can a GP during a patient's annual physical also check for symptoms and signs in regards to ocular health? GP's also prescribe but do not dispense and there fore there is no conflict of interest with them.
    Umm no, now that would be a public health disaster!

  11. #86
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    ODs: YouOptometrists and opticians in BC should just stop bickering and band together to fight a common foe: internet optical vendors. Let's face it, both ODs and opticians in BC lost out big on this one. The only real winner is Coastal Contacts. I would argue that the consumer lost out in a big way, too, since the quality of eyecare in BC just went down the toilet. Sure, consumers might save money now by buying cheap glasses and contacts online, but they will pay for it later when they develop serious eye problems because they neglected getting their eyes examined by their optometrist on a regular basis, or because they stopped going to their optician for follow-up contact lens visits.'ve got to stop seeing opticians as the enemy. Yes, we've taken some of your business away with automated sight tests, but at least we still get to see the patient face-to-face and can determine through screening methods if a patient needs to see an OD or not. Some opticians are even pretty good at spotting things that even medical doctors may have missed. Witness this for example:



    Just came across this website and could not believe what took place in BC ! I agree with the above that everyone involved in patient eyecare (all three O's) should be joining together to tell the BC Gov't and the residents of BC that this legislation does nothing to protect the public. Why the BC gov't feels that the public can best be served and protected by the internet companies is beyond me. Does this mean since a written Rx/or Rx verification for glasses is no longer required...then a written Rx for drugs may not be required in the future ? If so, I can finally get my patient's in ON get their TPA's on line with no Rx ! There is nothing positive for any of the three O's in this legislation because there is nothing that improves patient care or protects the patient. It would be interesting if there was an organized joint campaing of the three O's informing the public that there plumber could be selling them contact lenses or that their spectacles that cost $39 or $800 are being fabricated from someone with no licence. Lastly, I always find the discussion about sight testing interesting. If someone can explain how to me how sight testing or an eye exam simply consisting of a refraction can differentiate between say a 20 YO male patient who has a small increase in refraction that is due to axial myopia increase, a nuclear cataract, or diabetes/hyperthyroid , then plesse inform me ! Otherwise eventually the only people that will get rich will be the lawyers representing the patients and suing the dispensers. Just a thought from an OD in TO.

  12. #87
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    It is noteable that requirements for ophthalmologists' mandatory Rx'ing for eyewear including PD has been omitted.

    Government & Internet exploiting "Free" services currently offered.
    The government is counting on opticians continuing to refract for free (or at least cheap); in their minds this is providing "free"/affordable eyecare to the public, although at no cost to the government, and is being pitched to the public as such.
    Internet companies have stated that you can get eyewear adjustments or even PD for free from an optical store.
    Last edited by NorthStar; 03-25-2010 at 02:21 AM.

  13. #88
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    Yes, and fpor bifocals/progressive some websites tell the patient to look in the mirror and find their pupil centre, and for segment types the company just chooses a pre-set height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esqoptical View Post
    No one saw this coming at all! Opticians & O.D.'s have been trying to move forward and increase their scopes and not really getting anywhere, then some internet provider based in B.C. who has lots of $ seems to convince the corrupt Govt that this is the way to go!
    I for one don't work for free and don't plan to. Where is it said that a PD is part of an Rx? That has always been part of dispensing.
    Since the two BC associations represent all of the members involved here that just got the shaft, it is time they banded together, hired a lawyer that specializes in this type of case, and called for an inquest within the government.

    There is already enough information out in the public that confirms there is a conflict of interest with at least one of the voting government officials. A legal challenge/investigation into the dealings of the government would gain excellent media awareness and coverage while exposing the transparency of this whole hidden agenda scheme.

    Come on BC OD's and OPT's; its time to band together - stand up for yourselves, your profession, your ethics and take the fight.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    opticians should go fee based

    PD: $40
    Seg Height: $45
    New frame fit: $60
    Adjustment: $20
    Most sendible thing I've heard all day.

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    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 10-23-2010 at 03:12 PM.

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    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 10-23-2010 at 03:12 PM.

  18. #93
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    No one can be forced to work for free. That's called slavery. Just don't comply and let them come after you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Refractingoptician.com View Post
    Nice idea but BC beat you to this . Read their press realease again ! It says you can not charge for this but have to give it out FREE . They have already thought it out and cut you off at the knees .

    They also have a federal MP on their board of directors.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refractingoptician.com View Post
    Nice idea but BC beat you to this . Read their press realease again ! It says you can not charge for this but have to give it out FREE . They have already thought it out and cut you off at the knees .

    They also have a federal MP on their board of directors.
    You can charge to perform for the service, and provide a mandatory written Rx at that time as part of the service whether it is an Rx and/or PD. If they later request another Rx copy you can charge for providing another copy.
    However, politicians may have a distorted perception that suits their needs when it comes to the spin they give the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by optical maven View Post
    No one can be forced to work for free. That's called slavery. Just don't comply and let them come after you.
    Ya really, it has been obvious in recent times that there is nobody out there to enforce anything!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemanflying View Post
    There is already enough information out in the public that confirms there is a conflict of interest with at least one of the voting government officials. A legal challenge/investigation into the dealings of the government would gain excellent media awareness and coverage while exposing the transparency of this whole hidden agenda scheme.
    Who? If your talking about the federal MP.... that doesn't count, this is a provincial issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedema View Post
    Who? If your talking about the federal MP.... that doesn't count, this is a provincial issue.
    I disagree. Although the BC RHPA is provincially mandated, I think any government member whether Provincial or Federal is a huge conflict of interest.

    Certainly you know how politicians network and take care of each other. Mark my words, this will continue in other provinces with Ontario being next. BC is simply the 'test' subject.

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    There is apparently quite a bit of organized activity going on trying to reverse the motion set for May 1.

    What is the likelihood of any of this succeeding?

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherOD View Post
    There is apparently quite a bit of organized activity going on trying to reverse the motion set for May 1.

    What is the likelihood of any of this succeeding?
    I don't see it reversing. Even if it does, who will shut down the internet? Times are changing. I'm not going down without a fight, but it wont be the kind of fight you are talking about. (ie suicide mission)
    Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

  25. #100
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    Redhot Jumper How many jobs can you produce at $39? Not for long they can't. Stop dreaming.........

    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post

    Well, let's see if the intenet businesses can make this work.

    Seriously, if there's mega online competition, and low, low margins, many will go bankrupt. How many jobs can you produce at $39? Not for long they can't.

    Do not forget, that most internet opticals have a very small organization with some big lab contacts in China. The China lab charges totally different prices than than the North American equivalent will, either for lenses and also for frames. They get prices as low as Essilor and other manufacturers buy their lenses at source. This is a totally different cost game than you would ever have been dreaming of.

    The jobs are being sent from there by EMS which is an excellent and cheap one way East to West courier service and is delivered directly to the customer by Priority Post in four to five days from date of sending.

    So the internet dealer pays only the price charged in China which lets the internet dealer make a fair markup even on the cheapest prices sold. As quite a few of them sell up to 5000 pairs a day (and increasing) I dont see any going bankrupt. I have been watching their website traffic for the last 10 months and they increased by 20-30% over the last 3 month.

    It is time to face the facts and stop dreaming that the online opticals are all going away, because they will not. The economy besides all that is on their side with a good part of the public without income and jobs for a while to come.
    Essiloris not stupid, they did not buy a majority stake in Frames Direct for no reason. They have realized that they do need a foothold in a new optical industry and concept that will not disapear too soon.

    This all is not only affecting the professionals, it is also affecting the supply chain from lenses and frames as well as lab supplies.

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