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Thread: Is this Ontario's Registrar?

  1. #51
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    I have been reading this thread and I can't believe it.
    Some people are so negative that they will not give our new registar a chance.
    Some people will never be satisfied.

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    Last edited by idispense; 01-25-2012 at 07:59 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 01-25-2012 at 07:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idispense View Post
    New Executive Council will not be elected till the end of January so by what stretch of the imagination do you believe old Council has changed it's tune and now knows how to deal with the internet, discipline cases ( how old is the plimmer case ? when is the hearing scheduled for ? look it up ) and unauthorized dispensing? Old Council got us into this mess and kept us there. Who hired the lawyers to deal with Bergez ? How effective was that ? Who objected to the suspended sentence ? What has changed that would lead you to believe that unauthorized dispensing by internet vendors will be dealt with by the departing Council's decisions ?
    All this has nothing to do with the new Registrar. So, why not back off and give her a chance.

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    Last edited by idispense; 01-25-2012 at 08:00 AM.

  6. #56
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    I hear the new excutive for Ontario is being elected next Monday. Will you make an informed vote?

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    Last edited by idispense; 01-25-2012 at 08:00 AM.

  8. #58
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    That makes perfect sense. It could be sent out on a live pass protected website. Who could you tell to get this done?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by inside out View Post
    I hear the new excutive for Ontario is being elected next Monday. Will you make an informed vote?
    If I remember correctly the College Of Opticians of Ontario's mandate is to protect the public and has little or nothing to do with protecting our proffesional interests.They only have governing powers over other opticians. Placing your hope on the College to have any effect on internet dispensing is wishful thinking. We need to try other avenue's. The cooperation of the 3 O's together with getting the attention of various levels government would probably be more fruitful.It was the College of Optometrists who brought down Bruce Bergez not us. My original license from the" Board of Opthalmic Dispenser for the Province of Ontario" is framed the one from the College is still in the card board tube it was delivered in. At the time the change in structure just didn't smell right. Years later I find it quite ironic.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-optician View Post
    If I remember correctly the College Of Opticians of Ontario's mandate is to protect the public and has little or nothing to do with protecting our proffesional interests.They only have governing powers over other opticians. Placing your hope on the College to have any effect on internet dispensing is wishful thinking. We need to try other avenue's. The cooperation of the 3 O's together with getting the attention of various levels government would probably be more fruitful.It was the College of Optometrists who brought down Bruce Bergez not us. My original license from the" Board of Opthalmic Dispenser for the Province of Ontario" is framed the one from the College is still in the card board tube it was delivered in. At the time the change in structure just didn't smell right. Years later I find it quite ironic.

    The College I believe can regulate internet dispesning as the COO takes it's mandate from the RHPA and section 27 (2) ( 9 ) would likely apply :

    Controlled acts restricted
    27. (1) No person shall perform a controlled act set out in subsection (2) in the course of providing health care services to an individual unless,
    (a) the person is a member authorized by a health profession Act to perform the controlled act; or
    (b) the performance of the controlled act has been delegated to the person by a member described in clause (a). 1991, c. 18, s. 27 (1); 1998, c. 18, Sched. G, s. 6.
    Controlled acts

    (2) A “controlled act” is any one of the following done with respect to an individual:
    1. Communicating to the individual or his or her personal representative a diagnosis identifying a disease or disorder as the cause of symptoms of the individual in circumstances in which it is reasonably foreseeable that the individual or his or her personal representative will rely on the diagnosis.
    2. Performing a procedure on tissue below the dermis, below the surface of a mucous membrane, in or below the surface of the cornea, or in or below the surfaces of the teeth, including the scaling of teeth.
    3. Setting or casting a fracture of a bone or a dislocation of a joint.
    4. Moving the joints of the spine beyond the individual’s usual physiological range of motion using a fast, low amplitude thrust.
    5. Administering a substance by injection or inhalation.
    6. Putting an instrument, hand or finger,
    i. beyond the external ear canal,
    ii. beyond the point in the nasal passages where they normally narrow,
    iii. beyond the larynx,
    iv. beyond the opening of the urethra,
    v. beyond the labia majora,
    vi. beyond the anal verge, or
    vii. into an artificial opening into the body.
    7. Applying or ordering the application of a form of energy prescribed by the regulations under this Act.
    8. Prescribing, dispensing, selling or compounding a drug as defined in the Drug and Pharmacies Regulation Act, or supervising the part of a pharmacy where such drugs are kept.
    9. Prescribing or dispensing, for vision or eye problems, subnormal vision devices, contact lenses or eye glasses other than simple magnifiers.


    If this applies then we just need to light a fire under both COO and the Ministry of Health and Deb Matthews et al .


  11. #61
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    It must be close to 20 years ago that I wrote a letter to the College of Opticians which contained the catalogue for mail order contact lenses. I can't remember the name of the firm but Linda Carter ( former Miss USA/Wonder Woman) was their spokesperson. The reply from the College is that they are concerned and will look into the matter. The lack of action back then has lead to the escalated situation we have today. This involves so many jurisdictions such as international, customs, provincial,federal, couriers and the world wide web that it is near impossible to police. We missed our opportunity years ago. This battle goes beyond the powers of the College of Opticians. That is why a collective effort from all the 3 O's, Colleges, Associations, Ministries of Health and Trade is required. I would love to hear a public announcement from the College of Physicians & Surgeons that internet dispensing of contact lenses is a serious health hazard to Canadians and they are asking the Federal Ministry of Health to put an end to it. Is there any health statistics on this subject to back up our claim? Do we need to start collecting this data? Is it possible to police internet sales? We can buy just about any thing we want on the internet irregardless of regulations. I am guilty of purchasing my dog's flea and heart worm medication on-line for a substantial savings by ignoring regulations. Who down loads music and video for free by ignoring copy right laws? The world has changed and I doubt we will reverse the damage we have done.

  12. #62
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    There are things they can do.

    If you believe that there is nothing they can do then why do we let them make laws to regulate us and why does the government give them the authority of the Minister of Health , the RHPA and Opticians Act to operate under?
    Last edited by idispense; 01-30-2012 at 07:53 PM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 04-11-2012 at 06:46 AM.

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    Last edited by idispense; 04-11-2012 at 06:46 AM.

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    ex optician

    you are correct in the thought of uniting the three O.s. as a real force against internet dispensing and de regulation. There is a new grassroots group just starting out. In their first meeting all three O's were in attendants. Membership is free and your name is listed to the public. It is starting to get some funding and wants to be a uniting voice for all to government with full transparency. I believe in this cause very much. I have talked to the chairman of this group. He seems very committed on honest. This is rare in the optician world. The name is the Canadian Coalition of Eyecare Professionals. (CCEPro). Check them out on line. Their Jan newletter is very encouraging.

  16. #66
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    Dear Colleagues in Eye Care,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this inaugural newsletter of the Canadian Coalition of Eye care Professionals (CCEPRO): the first pan-Canadian organization to represent the three “O” professions.

    According to the Cost of Vision Loss in Canada study, the annual cost of blindness and visually compromised individuals in Canada is $15.8 billion (2007 dollars). There are 800,000 Canadians currently living with blindness and/or partial sight. Every additional year 43,800 Canadians lose their vision. How do the professions of opticianry, optometry and ophthalmology minimize the visual and corresponding economic and social impacts of blindness? Having had a front row seat to the rapid deregulation of eye care in BC in the spring of 2010 and with neither the professional associations nor the regulatory colleges being consulted prior to this, I became convinced opticianry, optometry and ophthalmology must work together and approach government in a collaborative and unified manner to be effective. Currently, the eye care industry is severely fragmented, which makes it exceedingly difficult for any one of the professions to educate government with any credibility. The situation in BC demonstrates that we must be fully engaged at every step of the legislative agenda in regards to eye care across the country. We were not engaged nor informed in BC, which serves as a clear signal that our efforts need to be refocused and ramped up as we move forward.

    Governments are becoming more and more concerned with the rising costs of health care and are often making decisions to alleviate financial pressure. Due to the short-term nature of politics these decisions often don’t add up to a long-term solution as we have experienced in BC.

    CCEPRO’s key messages to government speak to this looming health care crisis by supporting and maintaining standards for eye care:

    1. CCEPRO believes that regulatory standards in the eye care sector will serve to protect Canadians from preventable vision loss and eye disease and thereby reduce the high cost of treatment associated with late treatment and misdiagnoses.
    2. All provincial governments have placed a high priority on disease prevention to reduce the high cost of health care. The development of new regulations for eyecare should be no different than any other health care prevention program.
    3. CCEPRO supports the CNIB in its role to proactively educate Canadians on preventing vision loss and believes that in doing so, will help reduce the long-term costs on provincial healthcare and related support programs associated with loss of livelihood associated with vision.

    For those of you who are unfamiliar with my background, I am currently the chairman of the CCEPRO Steering Committee and work as the owner of an independent optometry practice in Maple Ridge, British Columbia. Currently, I practice to the highest optometric level possible therapeutically and co-manage more advanced cases under the supervision of an excellent ophthalmologist. I worked on the BC Association of Optometry Public Relations Committee briefly until resigning to move over to the regulatory side of the equation being elected to sit on the board of the College of Optometrists of BC in the fall of 2007. I was fortunate enough to work alongside many talented individuals there and had the privilege of serving through the transition of the Board to the College of Optometrists of BC.

    What is the next step? When you are speaking with your colleagues and friends, inform them regarding CCEPRO and direct them to the website to have them assess the objectives of the organization and to join if their views are in alignment. Growing as a grassroots organization member by member will require time, but ultimately it will provide CCEPRO with the strong foundation necessary to achieve success.

    As we form an executive and finalize our by-laws, we will have more direct e-mails for you to communicate with us, but in the interim feel free to visit the CCEPRO website to review our mandate and / or to begin blogging (www.ccepro.org).

    Regards,
    Murray Hurlbert, O.D.

    http://ccepro.camp7.org/

  17. #67
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    It is obvious that Chris believes in full transparancy. I really like that. Also he does all the homework for us. The website he provided is excellent. It seems obvious we need to work together.

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    Last edited by idispense; 04-11-2012 at 06:47 AM.

  19. #69
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    idispense with your line of thought please read my new thread. I need some help. Current real life example of how money is being funneled to the nationals.

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    Last edited by idispense; 04-11-2012 at 06:48 AM.

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    QUOTE=ex-optician;409886]It must be close to 20 years ago that I wrote a letter to the College of Opticians which contained the catalogue for mail order contact lenses. I can't remember the name of the firm but Linda Carter ( former Miss USA/Wonder Woman) was their spokesperson. The reply from the College is that they are concerned and will look into the matter. The lack of action back then has lead to the escalated situation we have today. This involves so many jurisdictions such as international, customs, provincial,federal, couriers and the world wide web that it is near impossible to police. We missed our opportunity years ago. This battle goes beyond the powers of the College of Opticians. That is why a collective effort from all the 3 O's, Colleges, Associations, Ministries of Health and Trade is required. I would love to hear a public announcement from the College of Physicians & Surgeons that internet dispensing of contact lenses is a serious health hazard to Canadians and they are asking the Federal Ministry of Health to put an end to it. Is there any health statistics on this subject to back up our claim? Do we need to start collecting this data? Is it possible to police internet sales? We can buy just about any thing we want on the internet irregardless of regulations. I am guilty of purchasing my dog's flea and heart worm medication on-line for a substantial savings by ignoring regulations. Who down loads music and video for free by ignoring copy right laws? The world has changed and I doubt we will reverse the damage we have done.[/QUOTE]


    I totally disagree with you on this, although it is true that many have written to the College on this matter and received the same answers as you, the fact is that the College does have jurisdiction and can act on this matter to bring it to a halt in Ontario just as the other provinces can also halt it in their provinces should they choose to do so.
    The key words are : "should they choose to do so" and that part does not appear to be happening .

    As the saying goes: "if you are not part of the solution then you must be part of the problem “

    For the most part the penis enlargement, the breast enhancement and the pharmacy ads have been stopped so think about that and think about how they were stopped.

    Don't do any more of the bleeding heart stuff like "what can we do ...we can't control the internet” that is nothing more than BS. That is a defeatist, negative, attitude in full bloom that is being propagated by people and organizations that do not know what to do and are therefore not capable of performing their jobs and duties and should therefore be removed from their positions. Or it is from people who choose not to uphold the laws they created and again the answer is to remove them from their positions immediately. Leaders like that we do not need.

    Google was fined 500 million for illegal advertising that was enabled by their AD words and AD sense technologies to circumvent "applicable local laws”. Read it and understand it and go through the fine print on Google’s web site. Read Kijiji’s fine print dealing with applicable local laws. They are not above the law and our Colleges/regulators/Health ministers are not above the law.

    Read this: http://www.infopackets.com/news/internet/2011/20110825_google_fined_500_million_for_illegal_drug_ads.htm
    Think about it. Get your fellow opticians and optometrists to read it then look it up for yourself until you understand it.

    Push Back the BS at the top layers, those top layers should know better than to take our fees and hand us this garbage about not being able to do anything. Ask the BRASS to show you the proof. Demand to see the actual documents VERBATIM proving that they filed the complaints with GOOGLE and Kijiji and what about filing complaints with the CRTC over the TV ADs ? . Can the TV and Radio propogate ads that violate local applicable laws ?

    Ask your advocacy organizations and regulators to show you the entire documentary proof that they filed the complaints with Google and Kijiji and Radio and TV . Demand to see the FULL answers that they got.
    Fire them if they refuse to prove they tried or quit paying the ones you can.

    Start asking every provincial regulator and every advocacy group to show you the papers they filed on our behalf to uphold the laws they created.

    Their job is to uphold the law, which is the sole reason you pay them. Demand value for your dollars.

    This battle is entirely within the powers of the Colleges and that includes the optometry Colleges and their advocacy groups.

    Why do you think we have laws and regulators if this is not within their powers? That is their job! That is why we entrust our fees to them.

    When will you people stop believing that you can't do anything?

    This is not a matter that they can’t do anything, it is a matter that it is easy not to do anything and they don’t believe you will fire them. And they have you believing you can’t do anything.

    Do something useful for once, search out the fine print in Google’s pages about how to file a complaint when local applicable laws are being violated. Then think about those drug and pharmacy ads, think about those penis and breast ads , then think about how those unauthorized internet vendors show up on your web page , read about Google AD words until you personally understand how GOOGLE and Kijiji are being used by unauthorized vendors to circumvent our laws .

    Then push back.
    Last edited by idispense; 01-30-2012 at 12:16 PM.

  22. #72
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    to idispense

    You have a lot of fire in your belly. thats good. I have been advise by fellow Opticians to go easier with my words even though I feel so strongly. I hope I did not hurt anyones feelings. I have been in these circles, I feel we are being led down the wrong path, and I am learning too. I feel encouraged by this group. Maybe I raise some fires in your hearts. Believeme I know it is hard to keep those feelings in check. May we continue to advise each other and remember are common goal to save Opticians, yes our friends. May we find strong knowledgeable honest friends along the way. And may we help put them in power to lead with courage.

  23. #73
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    There is no reason to go easier with the words. Regulatory bodies are there to uphold the law , plain and simple , there is no mystery to this. They can see the illegal dispensing in front of them . They choose to act on it or not .

    There is no mystery to read through Google's and Kijiji's own web sites and read that they will abide by local laws and all applicable laws.

    There is no mystery that neither Google , Kijiji or anyone else is above the law for the sole reason that they are a world wide web company . Illegal is illegal .

    It is the job of our Regulators to make the laws and enforce them. There is no mystery that they made the laws and there is no mystery that they are not enforcing these laws. It is the job of Deb Matthews ,and also the Premier of Ontario to bring the Regulators into compliance with Government Acts .

    The answer is simple, read the applicable law portions of Google and Kijiji, read the application process . Demand that the Regulators and Associations show us positive proof in full entirety proving to us that they have applied to have the applicable laws enforced and then turned it over to the Attorney General for prosecution if there is no compliance.

    If the Regulators can't or won't prove this to us then quit paying them and fire them . Do not let them off the hook with their governance nonsense and "we are looking into it BS " they are long past claiming that as a plausible excuse . Just fire them and replace them with employees that will uphold the law.
    Last edited by idispense; 01-30-2012 at 08:11 PM.

  24. #74
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    Read this : http://support.google.com/bin/reques...=lr_legalother

    There are other provisions that can be used to file complaint with Google and Kijiji but start by reading this one it deals with Google.

    We could also explore a court order being issued declaring the unauthorized internet vendors to be violating local applicable laws of the RHPA and Opticianry Acts and then file that complaint and court order with Google and other search engines , the TV and Radio authorities and Kijiji . if there is no compliance then we could explore the powers of the MINISTER of HEALTH who should be doing this on their own anyhow or we could seek assistance from the Attorney General .

    Think about the Great Glasses case , ultimately everything was dumped onto the Attorney General for enforcement when the Regulatory Bodies failed .

    Google has seperate on line areas of their web site dedicated to accepting court ordered violations and removal of Googles services as the remedy.

  25. #75
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    idispense

    I believe the health minister is trying to pass law to stop cosmetic CLs. It looks quite positive. I wonder how that will effect online sales. If non presciption CLs are to be control by federal law than perscription CLs should merit at least as much control.

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