Entry Requirements

[Laurie]

Hi Varmint,

It would be great if you can get to Cinn...the cool thing about groups like this, is that opticians from all walks of life (none better than another, all important), can attend, the dynamics of the brainstorming change on a dime, evolving into a group thought...tough to do via print...face to face, tone, body language, clarification of thoughts is best done live...IMHO.

: )

Laurie

And, I would be remorse not to shout out to all of those there...awesome to meet you, I sure wish I could have stayed for the whole day. Looking forward to seeing you in Sept. : )

: )

Laurie

[wmcdonald]

I am perfectly willing to participate and very much want to be a part of this effort, however your meeting in Atlanta conflicted with other travel plans I already had, making it impossible for me to be able able to attend even though I would have loved to be there. I may be in a position to organize a meeting for the folks on the west coast (Arizona in particular), and I can be available to help implement whatever procedures the group deems appropriate when the time comes. I would first like to have some knowledge of the goals and direction this effort is taking, so I will attempt to make the meetings in Cincinnati if at all possible, but you can surely understand not everyone who wants to be a part of this will be able to attend all of the gatherings for different reasons, it's not always just about money. If you would let me know what your criteria is to make your effort worth while to attend a west coast gathering I will check my resources.
I apologize for my previous post sounding so negative, but the anticipation overcame my reason.

Due to the constant negative comments from a few here we are convinced are trying to dissuade folks from participating, the group generally decided it was not an appropriate place to publish the proceedings. We will be discussing how to get this message out soon. If you wish to call, please do so. My cell is 910-818-1146, and I would be pleased to talk with you, on the grounds that our conversation is not privy to public disclosure as of yet.

[Uilleann]

All right Warren - you want to play that way? You want to call me out? Let's dance.

Everyone is invited, and you were all welcome to join us in Atlanta.

Of course everyone was "invited". Rather convenient however, that the main, shall we call them: 'people of interest' were already going to be in Atlanta - in fact, going so far as to be paid for their attendance I would expect, correct? Money where your mouth is indeed.

The next time this group will meet will be the ABO-NCLE meeting in Cincinatti. You are encouraged to join us.

Where? At the OAA meeting? Why there? Why them? It *appears* to be a very cozy relationship there - and wasn't that precisely what so many of us were interested in avoiding this time around? Several pages back that was certainly the case.

As to dissemination of information, I will ask Harry, Wes, Bob, Don or others involved to provide any information they feel appropriate.

Why is that exactly? You're being paid for your ongoing series in ECP Warren correct? Not that any real information has been granted so far in those articles, apart from the need for "change" and the mention of this "meeting" in Atlanta. Now I can understand that you have a very high placed position to protect there at Methodist University as a dept. chair. I get that. I also get that there is much going on behind the curtains relating to interpersonal relationships with others in the industry, and even organizations such as ABO and OAA. I understand that one is a position such as yours needs to be careful as to what they say, and to whom.

You keep mentioning this as being an "OPEN" group. Experience is showing that this is anything but.

On your comment regarding a select group: yes, the select group who put their money where their mouth is and came to Atlanta. The next meeting is in Ohio. You are welcome to be a part of the process as it develops.

So here it is. The truth. This IS after all has been said and done, a completely exclusive "pay to play" organization. Except that Warren my good man, we already have plenty of those groups in opticianry.

Once specific comment: this was an open forum. Many who talk loudly do little more than that, and will never participate because the meeting is not around the corner from them, and cost them nothing.

And Warren, you're so very very wrong. You see, for all the excitement you managed to drum up here, all the bravado and enthusiasm - which was GREAT by the way - you have gone an alienated many at the very core you were hoping to get on board at the outset.

Money is always an issue. For anyone to insinuate otherwise here is insulting, appears rather arrogant and shows you really have no grasp of what many in this field struggle with pertaining to their disposable income, ability to travel due to any of a myriad of possible reasons, scheduling conflicts etc.

For my own part, I was certainly ready and willing to work around as many of my own difficulties and try to make this meeting at almost any cost - within reason. But reason took a sharp left turn several pages back, and my own personal feeling was that the ends did not justify the means any longer. That sentiment was/is shared by a growing number here - even if they haven't been as active in trying to cut through the smoke growing on this thread over the past few weeks.

A small group got together and found common ground to help move the professional side of Opticianry forward. People from Illinois, Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and many other states came at their expense, and all left with complete buy-in to the goals established BY THE GROUP.

I find this statement to be interesting - and enlightening. You certainly have many cheerleaders going for you - even from far beyond our nation's borders. Which seems extremely strange to me considering they don't have (and never will) a dog in this fight. As it was initially presented, you had a surprisingly large number of us here ready not only to do what we could locally, but also to do what we could nationally to help move the original concept forward. Yes, you certainly did have people from several states come - (all eastern in your own list, but I'll assume it was far from complete?) - however you also had a number of opticians change their minds recently, and choose not to come. And of those, more than one were from the very states you list. That seems to be rather against the spirit of the original proposal wouldn't you agree?

If you wish to join us, you are welcome. We are just establishing our initial group of people, and it is an interesting mix, but one that all found much to agree about.

Again, you say everyone is welcome. But you also said only people who were willing to pay for the privilege this time really matter. Since it's clear it can't be both in reality, which is it?

Let me just leave you with this.........everyone there was excited about the direction we are taking. As it develops, we may be able to afford some webinars that can expand our reach a little bit.

I find it strains credulity to say that no one in attendance was so much as able to employ a voice recorder, a web cam, a simple pen and paper even, so take a basic minutes of what was discussed. You work for a University Warren correct? More than that as head of a business department. Meetings, and the ability to effectively disseminate the information discussed therein to a larger audience is a cornerstone of just about any businessman worth their salt correct?

Why, with all the dollar signs being bandied about, could no one afford even the most basic of recording or sharing? Even a basic online program such as Skype could have provided an avenue for some to listen in at the very least. That would have cost nothing. Cost, in this case, should have been a non factor.

Until then, I will tell you what I told Bri. Put a meeting together, and Dr. Ferguson and I will come to do the same thing there we did in Atlanta. I have made that offer several times to him, but still all he does is try to make this work seem like some kind of clandestine gathering, which it was not, and will not become. Put your money where your mouth is.......I will be there. If you do not have the ability to do that, join us in Cincinatti.

Once again - we must pay to play. Sorry, I'm not buying. Warren, let me be perfectly frank. It appears that to some in our industry, you're quite the big cheese. That you have some amazing grasp of opticianry in the United States that most of us will only dream about. While that may indeed be true, there are a myriad of us who would love not only to hear what you have to say, but anyone else with a similar mindset. We understand you've got your writing gigs, your speaking gigs, and that some organizations are very likely to pay a pretty penny for your words. But if you truly are seeking a nation wide grass roots methodology here, I would suggest you reexamine your approach. If someone else cares to fly you out to the west, pay for your hotel, wine and dine you, and perhaps send you home with a few extra Cleavland's in your back pocket, fair play to them. But no sir, that won't be me.

Information is easy, and free in many cases to share. Why the deaf and dumb act has been so strongly enforced hitherto now confuses more than just myself.

I appreciate it. I will tell you, no matter how much you try to tear this down, which is what I think you are attempting to do, you will fail. We will make positive things happen, and are on the way.

Again, this shows me that you're not in touch with what many of us are asking. To date, you (or whoever the duly appointed spokesperson is for this new group) still have yet to answer several glaring questions regarding the direction and true intent of this meeting.

So, with all that said, once again I will wish you good luck. At this point, I don't expect to hear anything constructive from any of this - but if it does ever surface someday, a good job to the participants in Atlanta. I'm well aware that I'm a complete nobody to you Warren, and that is knowledge I can sleep comfortably with. I won't expect any Christmas cards in future. :p

[Uilleann]

Due to the constant negative comments from a few here we are convinced are trying to dissuade folks from participating, the group generally decided it was not an appropriate place to publish the proceedings. We will be discussing how to get this message out soon. If you wish to call, please do so. My cell is 910-818-1146, and I would be pleased to talk with you, on the grounds that our conversation is not privy to public disclosure as of yet.

You know Warren, you could put all this to bed once and for all, with even the slightest bit of disclosure. In the beginning, many more of us were "on board" with your initial concept. You seem to believe that because YOU have chosen to be so secretive and that so much of this appears from the outside to be business as usual with the old optical organizations, that none of us want reform, improvements to opticianry or any form of advancement of our profession. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face my friend.

What could you possibly have come up with that could in ANY way be anything other than POSITIVE?? Why not share??

[HarryChiling]

Warren stop posting in this thread please, let the people that were appointed to do good work do it. Keep in mind that the one thing that was 100% agreed upon with no arguement was that not everyone was going to like what was discussed and not everyone was going to be included.

[wmcdonald]

Thanks Harry. You are correct, and I appreciate it. I do want it known, however, that I was not paid to attend SEOC. I volunteer my time there annually. I was also volunteering to meet with any group out west. It was a great meeting and I appreciate the efforts of all. I look forward to good stuff, and will refrain from continuing in this thread.

[Craig]

Thanks Harry. You are correct, and I appreciate it. I do want it known, however, that I was not paid to attend SEOC. I volunteer my time there annually. I was also volunteering to meet with any group out west. It was a great meeting and I appreciate the efforts of all. I look forward to good stuff, and will refrain from continuing in this thread.

I would like to apolgize for the windbag- sorry, bagpiper- who we have no way to monitor nor put a muzzle on his computer. I applaud you for your efforts and people like you who change the world; others are just arrogant typists who provide nothing but negativity and then tell you they are just a realist.

I did send him a PM, but it was not without my name attached; he did not care nor understand what he does that hurts all of us trying to make the world a better place. His ego is all that matters and offering a positive solution is a foreign concept to someone who wakes up to see what is wrong with the world.

You can guarantee if there is a smiling face in the room, the bagppiper will not be happy and try to p--- on the party to make himself feel better.

Craig

[Uilleann]

Thanks Harry. You are correct, and I appreciate it. I do want it known, however, that I was not paid to attend SEOC. I volunteer my time there annually. I was also volunteering to meet with any group out west. It was a great meeting and I appreciate the efforts of all. I look forward to good stuff, and will refrain from continuing in this thread.

On that point Warren, I stand humbly corrected. My sincere apologies as my information was flawed in that regard. I do truly appreciate your openness on that point. Thank you.

I would like to apolgize for the windbag- sorry, bagpiper- who we have no way to monitor nor put a muzzle on his computer. I applaud you for your efforts and people like you who change the world; others are just arrogant typists who provide nothing but negativity and then tell you they are just a realist.

I did send him a PM, but it was not without my name attached; he did not care nor understand what he does that hurts all of us trying to make the world a better place. His ego is all that matters and offering a positive solution is a foreign concept to someone who wakes up to see what is wrong with the world.

You can guarantee if there is a smiling face in the room, the bagppiper will not be happy and try to p--- on the party to make himself feel better.

Craig

Wow Craig - glad you're feeling so much better now? You clearly have no idea what my level of participation was in this event several months back. That's fine. Carry on, and may you continue to change the world. Good luck!

[Jana Lewis]

where is all this anger coming from? I don't get it?

So? Some people got together to discuss some ideas about moving our profession forward! I would have gone but I had a mess to clean up here and couldn't get out of the office.

I just don't understand why your so upset Brian?

[Uilleann]

Upset? No. Angry? Nope. Frustrated beyond words for an ever growing myriad of reasons? Nail on the head.

[Jana Lewis]

Upset? No. Angry? Nope. Frustrated beyond words for an ever growing myriad of reasons? Nail on the head.

I'm frustrated too Bri... but why are you frustrated with this group? I don't understand. I admire ANYONE that is trying to make it better for Opticianary. I find myself in a difficult postion, I've complained but haven't done much. :( I plan on changing this. I need to be part of something "bigger".

I appreciate your opinion, can ya help me out? I honestly don't get it?

[canaanlilli]

I'm not sure about Bri's frustration. Mine has to do with the fact that as much as I would love to see our industry improved, it felt like these guys were getting in bed with those that we are trying to change from as well as taking on an elitist attitude. I have expressed my opinions and been basically told that I was wrong, and that I apparently did not want change and growth in our industry, so I to have become frustrated.

I hope they are able to enact positive change, but at this point, until I see positive interaction with those of us who can not afford to make it to meetings in other states, or take the needed time off, but have asked to be informed of the points discussed at the meetings, then I do not see the change happening.

PS, I really do want to know what was discussed and how I can have input in this conversation, b/c honestly I feel kind of frozen out since I wasn't able to attend.

[HarryChiling]

Warren posted his phone number on this thread I have sent a few people my phone number and yet no one has called. It's a fragile thing right now and their is work being done behinds the scenes to make sure this thing has a solid foundation. If everything is laid out here like it was before the meeting the same thing will happen that happened in this thread people get upset and rather than build it's always shoring up the ship. Will this thing be perfect when it's ready to be put out there "No", nothign is but this is the time for work and negativity is non productive. Freakin' be patient, let this thing unfold.

Just like everyone has a reason as to why they couldn't be there, believe that those there have a reason not to post information here. If I have to believe that the reasons for not being there were valid I have to believe that reasons for not making this public are just as valid and deserve a little consideration. Freakin' call me already find out what's happening if you feel as though you really need to know but this thread has really run it's course.

[Wes]

I second Harry. The excessive negativity on this forum has demonstrated that this is no longer the proper medium of communication. Several people have volunteered to communicate with you on a one on one basis. if you must know, contact one of them or me. Now lets close this up please?

[canaanlilli]

Geez, I understand that, and I anxiously and patiently await the dissemenation of information. But I for one am not comfortable calling people I don't know. Email and PM's are one thing. So, I will wait patiently until you are ready to let us know what is up! :D Please, realize that frustration is not the same as anger or hurt feelings. Good night to this thread...and this is said in the kindest sarcasm..(the only kind I know)...We await to here from you my fearless leaders!

[Craig]

Geez, I understand that, and I anxiously and patiently await the dissemenation of information. But I for one am not comfortable calling people I don't know. Email and PM's are one thing. So, I will wait patiently until you are ready to let us know what is up! :D Please, realize that frustration is not the same as anger or hurt feelings. Good night to this thread...and this is said in the kindest sarcasm..(the only kind I know)...We await to here from you my fearless leaders!

HOw do you meet and greet new customers?


Craig

[canaanlilli]

First, I've already pm'd you. Second, They are coming to me, I have a face to go with the name, and I am providing them a service. I have not succeeded at those personal business models like Amway or Mary Kay because I am not good at going out and talking to total strangers. I'm more comfortable on stage, which for me my shop is, a stage I get to help people from.

[mjacob]

I fully agree with that. I got my AS degree frm FL and took my ABO/NCLE certification exams in MI. The optical that i'd worked, they were just taking anyone of the street w/ no optical background... n they're labeled as Opticians!!! I was way underpaid!!! I think they do need to make rules more stricter, in all states.. like in FL. In FL, u cannot do anything without a licensed optician present.

[Fezz]

How is the progress coming on this project?

[HarryChiling]

How is the progress coming on this project?

Call me, bro.

[price]

Hi Harry,

Wish you had made the Ohio meeting it was great.

Don Price ABO/NCLE
BOARD MEMBER of Society for Advanced Opticianry
Va. license
Refracting Optician

[HarryChiling]

Hi Harry,

Wish you had made the Ohio meeting it was great.

Don Price ABO/NCLE
BOARD MEMBER of Society for Advanced Opticianry
Va. license
Refracting Optician

I had a conflicting meeting in PA.

[Fezz]

A sentence is more like it!