Entry Requirements

[Johns]

On a side note I don't see any value in improving the ABO or NCLE unless the current leaders in place at these institutions are replaced and the tests updated.

It is much easier (and cheaper) to build a new house, than to rehab one that's foundation is rotted beyond repair.

Just start over...

[wmcdonald]

Mr McDonald, no one can deny that you are busting your backside to make a difference, thank you for your efforts. I agree with your premise very much. Is it possible to get a strong group of willing participants together that won't **** and moan and waste our time and money? The status quo is just not working.

Not if we do not continue to try. Then we get nothing. There are many out there who want to see change happen, and yes it can be done. As to Fezz's multiple question, it too ODs many years to reach their goal. They all had a comon background and focus. It will take us longer, but we can work towards increasing requirements (building that common background), which will then focus us in the right direction. Will it be worth it financially......not tomorrow, but down the road.....yes! Optometry started because in the early 1900s there was a group of apathetic individuals who did feel the need not to move forward. We can do the same thing. I have a vision of Opticians that can participate more effectively and independently in the eye care delivery system. It can happen, but if we do not step up to the plate, we don't have a chance. Ifwe wait too much loner, it will not matter. We must do better.

[optical24/7]

Which came first…The chicken or the egg?


Imho, we must get licensure prior to mandating education. How else are you going to mandate education? I’ll use Texas as an example. We do have voluntary registration here. To be registered with the state you need basic ABO certification along with five current CE credits (along with a minimal fee). To maintain your registration you must complete 10 hours every two years.

We are approaching the task of licensure by amending our current voluntary bill to mandatory. There will be a grandfathering period to where you only need to be state registered. (There are over 1700 current ABO certified out of the over 4000 opticians in the state). After the grandfathering period, either an Associates Degree or apprentice 6240 hours along with taking a practical exam will be required to be licensed. Eventually, when the state created Opticianry Board decides enough infrastructure is in place, the apprentice clause will be retired.

Licensure is a common sense issue. For the protection of the public, we need requirements in place to insure a unified, basic level of knowledge is available in every location that sells eyewear or dispenses CL’s. I’m sure many of you have seen what I see regularly. Like the patient last week complaining she couldn’t see out of her new PAL’s she got from a competitor 2 months ago. Both lenses were edged 45 degrees off. She took them back twice, both times being told they were correct!

Licensure can lead to a stable platform to increase educational requirements. If we wish the field to remain viable, let alone expand scope of practice, we must educate our field, uniformly. Even Mater Opticians vary greatly in their own individual knowledge. We need a structured curriculum with agreed upon criteria of skills and knowledge expected upon completion.

As other have mentioned, if you are in opticianry today it will be easy to stay in it. We must and will have grandfathering. With the current ABO basic exam being a relatively easy test to pass, there’s no reason anyone practicing opticianry today couldn’t pass with little to no prep time. ( My nephew went from Taco Bell to ABO Certified in 2 months!)

We must prepare now if there is going to be a future for opticianry. I will be at the ROATx Convention in Arlington discussing this, and other legislative issues further. I encourage anybody interested to drop by!

George Karber ABOC-AC
ROATx Legislative Chairman

[YrahG]

It is much easier (and cheaper) to build a new house, than to rehab one that's foundation is rotted beyond repair.

Just start over...

Agreed wholeheartedly, please read the rest of that post for a outline for a potential scenario to accomplish that task. I will go one step further and tell you I would not be the guy you would want to follow. I get things done and I think but I don't do both at the same time very well, with that said their always seems to be a lack of doers and an abundance of thinkers so I have decided long ago that I will leave the thinking to the more qualified thinkers just give me tasks to do and I get them done. This is also a key place our current leaders fail, we have the dumb and blind doing the thinking based on the vision they see for our future. Much of our talent is disenfranchised with our organizations so we're left with the crap we have now.

[Uilleann]

This may come off as rude but it is a prime example. With no formal education do you think it would really be prudent to put someone such as yourself in a position of leadership? We face this issue now, although there are those that can see past themselves the majority can not. Any leadership position should be held by those our industry sees as an example to follow. If the end goal is to have opticians with a minimum of an AA then maybe leaders with a minimum of an AA is in order, after all they have put in the time and effort.

Here, you are correct. It does in fact come off to me as rather rude - and if I may add, highly short sighted. I'm very sorry, but you have extremely little knowledge of the complete scope education and training I've had and continue to undertake, or any pieces of paper I may or may not be sporting to that end. So that does come off as a markedly unqualified statement. Moreover, there is absolutely NO means to effectively measure who may have a better skill set at say: grant writing, public speaking, political lobbying...etc. than another - degree, degrees, graduate school, or not. For that matter - let's define "better". I know a large number of folks who have gone to university and still have appallingly bad skill sets, even in their fields of major study. By the same token, I've had classes from a number of individuals in the optical industry with a veritable alphabet of letters after their names, masters of their craft (and one would hope knowledge of the same) who were dismally poor in both subject, content and delivery. So to paint with that overly-broad brush, I feel does all of us a major disservice.

I am not saying by any means that anyone else isn't welcome or suggestions should not be welcomed, but our leaders need to be the strongest of the bunch. Someone without the proper credentials can still volunteer and help within a organization but you gotta pay to play.

Again, I feel this is cutting off the nose to spite the face. As with the educational requirements of the current ABO examinations, there is ZERO guarantee that a passing score on the test is any real world measure of ability. And therein lies the crux of our problem. You can require "education", or you can require a measured level/degree of COMPETENCY directly related both to our field, and to the causes of our field. I feel they are mutually exclusive of each other in so much as education can not, and with a seemingly alarming rate if increased frequency does not, guarantee the latter. Ours is not a perfect educational world - particularly at a university level, and to be cognizant about the reality of this potential disparity would be very wise if we truly wish to gain positive momentum and move forward.

On a side note I don't see any value in improving the ABO or NCLE unless the current leaders in place at these institutions are replaced and the tests updated. This in itself would be a monumental task, it would be easier to create a new test and have it meet higher standards. Dr Ferguson who has posted in this thread has a practical examination that is supposed to be rigorous, some states already use this test as a part of their licensure, why not throw some lipstick on that pig and make it a national examination the funds generated could be used to advance a cause. I would hope that cause would not be licensure, I do not advocate dumping money into things that are not meant to happen yet. Maybe use those funds to set up scholarships to ease the burden of going to school, maybe use part of it to set up new programs across the country.

In theory, I would agree wholeheartedly with the first thought of this statement. The ABO is a gorilla that doesn't want to be changed and certainly not moved or worse...replaced. The "leadership" seems to me to be as ineffective for any real cause of furthering our profession as they could possibly be. However, by the same token, aren't the very people you're aiming to replace in the above scenario the same with the advanced degrees and all the skills one would hope to see in these leadership positions already? I believe it is rather clear that the status quo isn't working. Obviously, if the people in these current leadership positions who *should* be more than qualified to not only lead us, but to never have let opticianry get into it's current state, are the cream of the crop...I want off this carousel. All the education and degrees in the world aren't fixing the complete and utter lack of leadership now exhibited.

Another idea would be to create a curriculum that can be given to technical schools like YTI and the many others out there in non licensed states, the current goal being to create more programs and have their curriculum be uniform. These schools can be given grant money (made from testing) to set up their programs with Dr Ferguson's practical as the accepted standard for entry into the field. Basically create the market for the test, the idea being that this new test would be an ABO killer. The ABO would be forced to raise there standards or have competition of a higher caliber.

This could be a highly motivating factor for ABO to raise their standards. But then again we're working with a very finite resource here - optician's dollars. why will ABO raise their standards? To offer the same test someone else is offering in that scenario? And why would they do that? If I have money for only one test as an optician, I'll opt for the best one, and ignore the other. And I promise you, with the money they're raking in hand over fist right now, the ABO doesn't want to be ignored. Not from a financial standpoint. They'd very likely put up a huge fight for those dollars they otherwise would stand to loose. So now we'd have a potential for even greater in-fighting and division in our industry - precisely something we DO NOT NEED.

So where does this leave us? Who's going to lead? Who's going to instigate the change we so desperately need? Who YrahG? Yourself? Let me be the first to support you if you're ready to take on this bull by it's horns and facilitate change! If you feel you personally are far more qualified than I am to do any of this than I am - then BY ALL MEANS! STEP UP! As Fezz loves to state, and I'm with him 100% in this issue - either you're part of the problem, or part of the solution. Which are you?

I have never in my life claimed to be an expert at all things. Nor will I EVER claim that in this fight. But I'm ready to stand up and be counted as one who is working for major reform, change and (so I hope) immediate and continual improvement of the state of our profession. If you know of any better in my state, in my city...please feel free to light a HUGE fire under them and I will GLADLY give them 100% of my support to GET THE JOB DONE! I'm looking for the best way I can be a direct part of a solution. And I have enough knowledge to know I can only be part of the solution if I am working towards that end. Which is precisely what I'm going to do!

:cheers:

[idispense]

McDonald & FezzBeer & Man of a few well chosen Words, Johns :

Canada did it , but it ain't a bed of roses. While we are all sleeping & debating , the internet is stealing our cheese and the unauthorized dispensers are taking their piece of the pie , and then we have corruption ,too . But our provinces are all licensed !

There is still a long way to go and things to fix.

Fezz is right Ya'll gotta stand up and be counted , or shut up. Johns is right about building new . McDonald ,for you , I take my hat off and Canadian Olympic red mitts too !

Toss me one of those Samuel Adams drinks and I will salute your style too, Santini .

Canada did it and the States should be able to follow our lead.

[Roy R. Ferguson]

At the 1992 OAA Leadership Conference I made a speech regarding the need for minimum education requirements. The contents are about 4 pages long; otherwise I would post it in this forum. If anyone would like a copy, send me an email.

Once the OAA adopted the minimum education resolution no states that I can recall used it as a basis for embracing the standard or raising entry standards. Simply, most of the leadership viewed higher education as a threat to their positions as well as an economic burden. In Tennessee, the association led a very effective and vicious fight to insure such steps would never be taken. I’m sure the same occurred in other states to one degree or another.

I’m not discussing this history to discourage anyone. The need for education is an important now as it was then. However, don’t assume that just because it is necessary for the survival and expansion of the field that there will be universal acceptance. As you have seen in this discussion there are many who needlessly fear that an educated optician will be a threat to their career rather than an elevating factor for the entire profession.

With all that said, I would still be willing to fight the fight once more. Set the date for a conference Warren, I’ll be there.

Roy

[Uilleann]

Roy, I would love a copy of your speech, and will send you my email. Education is SO important to every single living breathing human being on the planet. I don't believe there is a single participant here who would disagree with that. But it's implementation as it relates to the bettering and furthering of opticianry as a medical profession is a tricky business - at best. I think just about all of us get that. There are a surprising number of very powerful (or at the least very LOUD) voices that will oppose anything that reason and common sense tells us is a good thing however. And when they're shouting in the ear of the policy makers as in the case you mention in TN, it only serves to put us that much further behind in a movement to improve opticianry today and in future.

So how do you out those who don't want to be outed? How do we clean house properly, and replace the ineffective with the effective? What is the best means for us to achieve our desired ends? Simply being educated isn't enough. And even putting the educated in positions of weight and power isn't enough either (as evidenced by our current "leadership".) What will be the most effective method of moving forward as a unified voice, and work for real and permanent change?

All the best!

Brian~

[wmcdonald]

Most of our leadership currently has 0 education.

[YrahG]

Here, you are correct. It does in fact come off to me as rather rude - and if I may add, highly short sighted. I'm very sorry, but you have extremely little knowledge of the complete scope education and training I've had and continue to undertake, or any pieces of paper I may or may not be sporting to that end. So that does come off as a markedly unqualified statement. Moreover, there is absolutely NO means to effectively measure who may have a better skill set at say: grant writing, public speaking, political lobbying...etc. than another - degree, degrees, graduate school, or not. For that matter - let's define "better". I know a large number of folks who have gone to university and still have appallingly bad skill sets, even in their fields of major study. By the same token, I've had classes from a number of individuals in the optical industry with a veritable alphabet of letters after their names, masters of their craft (and one would hope knowledge of the same) who were dismally poor in both subject, content and delivery. So to paint with that overly-broad brush, I feel does all of us a major disservice.



Again, I feel this is cutting off the nose to spite the face. As with the educational requirements of the current ABO examinations, there is ZERO guarantee that a passing score on the test is any real world measure of ability. And therein lies the crux of our problem. You can require "education", or you can require a measured level/degree of COMPETENCY directly related both to our field, and to the causes of our field. I feel they are mutually exclusive of each other in so much as education can not, and with a seemingly alarming rate if increased frequency does not, guarantee the latter. Ours is not a perfect educational world - particularly at a university level, and to be cognizant about the reality of this potential disparity would be very wise if we truly wish to gain positive momentum and move forward.



In theory, I would agree wholeheartedly with the first thought of this statement. The ABO is a gorilla that doesn't want to be changed and certainly not moved or worse...replaced. The "leadership" seems to me to be as ineffective for any real cause of furthering our profession as they could possibly be. However, by the same token, aren't the very people you're aiming to replace in the above scenario the same with the advanced degrees and all the skills one would hope to see in these leadership positions already? I believe it is rather clear that the status quo isn't working. Obviously, if the people in these current leadership positions who *should* be more than qualified to not only lead us, but to never have let opticianry get into it's current state, are the cream of the crop...I want off this carousel. All the education and degrees in the world aren't fixing the complete and utter lack of leadership now exhibited.



This could be a highly motivating factor for ABO to raise their standards. But then again we're working with a very finite resource here - optician's dollars. why will ABO raise their standards? To offer the same test someone else is offering in that scenario? And why would they do that? If I have money for only one test as an optician, I'll opt for the best one, and ignore the other. And I promise you, with the money they're raking in hand over fist right now, the ABO doesn't want to be ignored. Not from a financial standpoint. They'd very likely put up a huge fight for those dollars they otherwise would stand to loose. So now we'd have a potential for even greater in-fighting and division in our industry - precisely something we DO NOT NEED.

So where does this leave us? Who's going to lead? Who's going to instigate the change we so desperately need? Who YrahG? Yourself? Let me be the first to support you if you're ready to take on this bull by it's horns and facilitate change! If you feel you personally are far more qualified than I am to do any of this than I am - then BY ALL MEANS! STEP UP! As Fezz loves to state, and I'm with him 100% in this issue - either you're part of the problem, or part of the solution. Which are you?

I have never in my life claimed to be an expert at all things. Nor will I EVER claim that in this fight. But I'm ready to stand up and be counted as one who is working for major reform, change and (so I hope) immediate and continual improvement of the state of our profession. If you know of any better in my state, in my city...please feel free to light a HUGE fire under them and I will GLADLY give them 100% of my support to GET THE JOB DONE! I'm looking for the best way I can be a direct part of a solution. And I have enough knowledge to know I can only be part of the solution if I am working towards that end. Which is precisely what I'm going to do!

:cheers:

I'm sorry if my statements offend you but I cannot retract them and your long post does nothing to show how my thinking is flawed. Matter of fact your post is one of the very reasons why you should not be in a leadership position, NOW. You seem to have the fire in your belly, you seem well articulated, but by your own admittance you have no formal degree and you question the value. How do you propose talking the talk without walking the walk? Do you think others in the state would feel that if you can be in a leadership position with ZERO formal education why couldn't they? A degree is about more than just the knowledge gained in a program, it encompasses everything the hoops you have to jump through and the dedication that it takes to complete a degree. The shortest takes about 2 years which means from start to finish you will have 4 semesters of filling out FAFSA's for grant money, filling out documents to secure loans, signing a lease if your living off campus, working to support yourself if parents don't fund the education, etc. I call it the gauntlet, if you haven't run through it you can **** and moan about the value of it, but you'll never really know. Now I have meet some of the brightest opticians in this field and they are without a doubt some of the smartest individuals I have meet but without that "paper" they are a detriment to moving forward. That's the whole idea, how do we ensure that the mistakes of the past don't repeat themselves in a new organization if that is truly what is being discussed here. My thought is do not allow those without the minimum credentials that we seek to implement into the ranks. If that means a divide then, I think at this point it becomes necessary. I would hope that if there was ever a divide I can count on you to be on our side, those that value education.

[HarryChiling]

With all that said, I would still be willing to fight the fight once more. Set the date for a conference Warren, I’ll be there.

Roy

Dr McDonald and Dr Ferguson,

I have seen over the years that if there is any motive behind your pushing so hard to make this profession better it's only going to help me and those I like to call opticians and brothers. With that said either one of you says jump and my response will be how high. Count me in to any conference and I'll pick Fezz up this go round. so that's Fezz+1.

I would also like to add whatever standard is discussed and set in place as the minimum, I don't want to be grandfathered into anything. I'll earn my stripes.

Dr Ferguson,
I would love a copy of that speach or document, my email address **********, Thanks

[idispense]

What is missing is a Unifying Event . An event that will unify all states . A reason to be unified . A reason to want to move up the ladder. All you have now is debate and a pissing contest.

And yet a national contest to solve optical problems might be the answer. Prizes and money motivate. There is no motivation for an unlicensed person in an unlicensed state making 8.00 an hour to want to spend more time and money to still earn 8.00 per hour and the stores they work for see no reason to pay more and have more rules .

So , you need a national motivating event . A National Contest or other unifying event.

Stop worrying about who the leader is until you can think of the Unifying Event.

If you saw the movie INVICTUS , then you know that the sport and game unified the nation and brought them together.

[idispense]

For a small entry fee, each person could enter a National Contest to win say 5000.00 by answering some progresively more difficult optical questions or solving difficult patient cases. As you get more entrants , then the Grand Prize could increase.

It could start by being a City contest , then that winner goes to a State contest and so on up to a National winner. To win you need knowledge. There could be beginner categories and experienced categories .

It could also just be an online contest , with the resources on line to provide the correct answers if the person successfully reads and comprehends the material. As they read the material , they also send in the answers and get CE credits if they are in a licensed state or they get some other prize.

You have to have a unifying event and reason to try harder and reason to want more education.

Games are fun . Learning would be fun and purposeful . With entry fees it could be self funding.

Rodeos, motorcycle racing , football, basketball, baseball etc , they are all unifying contests that bring like minded people together for fun and challenge.

[Jana Lewis]

Stop worrying about who the leader is until you can think of the Unifying Event.

The truth hurts... this has been my beef all along. Opticians in general cannot agree on squat! So many of us get tired of all the drama and moaning! UNITY is the only way this will ever work, this needs to be our focus. If we could just get our national organizations to stop squabbling and get on the band wagon with a unified message then I think we would see much more support.

Good post idispense!

[adam f sizemore]

just a thought but could the problem lie with the consumer? getting the wrong glasses or contacts will not kill and may not even harm you but unlike other prescriptions that can then the consumer has no care if we are all licensed or not. the consumer just doesnt care about this profession the way we do.

[Uilleann]

I'm sorry if my statements offend you but I cannot retract them and your long post does nothing to show how my thinking is flawed. Matter of fact your post is one of the very reasons why you should not be in a leadership position, NOW.

I'm not here to prove or disprove how flawed anyone's thinking may or may not be. That's entirely up to you alone. Your accusations are patently false in regards to what you feel you "know" about me - and that's ok. I am still waiting for you to provide either yourself, or anyone else more "qualified" to "lead" this movement here locally.

I'm not interested in chest thumping, that is a waste of time and energy, particularly with any who can't see past the end of their own nose. As I stated, I'm more than thrilled to do what I can, and let others do what they can, where they can. My end desire is not to take on the challenge of reforming our current position single-handedly, but instead to be one cog (and with luck a very useful one at that), in a very complex machine of reform and change.

You seem to have the fire in your belly, you seem well articulated, but by your own admittance you have no formal degree and you question the value. How do you propose talking the talk without walking the walk? Do you think others in the state would feel that if you can be in a leadership position with ZERO formal education why couldn't they?

Again, you make an assumption about something you really know nothing about - and a rather personal attack yet again. Not sure what you're trying to prove, but regardless of whatever your motivating thoughts might be, they in no way help the cause of opticianry. I have never "questioned the value" of education. You are 100% incorrect in making that claim. I do question the absolute admission of any given degree as the end all, be all for the advancement of opticianry. A degree can be had many different ways in today's society, and degree A does NOT mean it is identical to degree B - even if on paper, they say the same thing. This has always been the case.

A degree is about more than just the knowledge gained in a program, it encompasses everything the hoops you have to jump through and the dedication that it takes to complete a degree. The shortest takes about 2 years which means from start to finish you will have 4 semesters of filling out FAFSA's for grant money, filling out documents to secure loans, signing a lease if your living off campus, working to support yourself if parents don't fund the education, etc. I call it the gauntlet, if you haven't run through it you can **** and moan about the value of it, but you'll never really know.

I disagree with your assertions here. You can no more assume that any given individual did any of the things you describe here just because they have this degree or that 'under their belt', than you can divine the weather by reading the pattern in your old tea leaves. The blanket assumptions of what makes an individual "qualified" to perform a given task set based solely on a general degree seems to be at best reckless and destructive to our cause. You don't have to teach to comprehend the value of a teacher...or to spot a bad one. Make sense?

Now I have meet some of the brightest opticians in this field and they are without a doubt some of the smartest individuals I have meet but without that "paper" they are a detriment to moving forward. That's the whole idea, how do we ensure that the mistakes of the past don't repeat themselves in a new organization if that is truly what is being discussed here. My thought is do not allow those without the minimum credentials that we seek to implement into the ranks. If that means a divide then, I think at this point it becomes necessary. I would hope that if there was ever a divide I can count on you to be on our side, those that value education.

Again, I will state that I don't believe there is a single member of these boards who finds zero value in education, and further in their own education. To state that without a given degree alone, that any qualified "smart" optician is "a detriment" is a very frightening statement to make. I don't believe for a second that the none of the people "in charge" of our organizations right now have zero education or any degrees. They're doing nothing for us - and neither are their various diplomas on the wall.

I do applaud your desire to seek a minimum level of general education in the field of opticianry. However, and again as I stated earlier, that cannot be used as a sole benchmark of ability in our field. The ABO, as flawed as it is, was designed to demonstrate a basic (if not extremely minimal) operational knowledge of opticianry. And yet - even though it very probably should have been the national standard - it fails miserably. Raising the standards to a new level is required to improve this state, I believe we all agree on that point here. However a degree, no matter how great or small, or from any given institution, does nothing to guarantee what we're truly after.

Believe me when I say education is vital! But what we seek is so much more than that alone.

All the best!

[wmcdonald]

We are again getting a bit heated, and probably should try to re-focus a bit. There is much we need, besides an education. A degree does not mean someone is necessarily smarter, but it does prove one thing......they underwent a program of study that proves they completed requirements for a given body of knowledge. Will a degree make you bend a temple better? Of course, not, but it will provide for those looking at us from the outside that we have some level of education. At present, we cannot complete with ODs legislatively, but with a degree, coupled with our practical training that would be formalized into a specifice structure, we at least have a leg to stand on. It is all about appearances. We must develop some structure across the country, and that includes education. Once that is done, then we can legislate more effectively. ANy guarantees? No. Will it be easy? No. But if we listen to many of you we would all just quit and go home. Do not surrender. We can do better!

And before someone reads this and thinks they may have to learn something new if they are currently practicing as an Optician, please read the thread. We are seeking to discuss the need to stiffen requirements for FUTURE Opticians.

[braheem24]

Higher standards without legistlatin and enforcement of internet sales as an illegal act will be the demise of opticianary.

Higher degree graduates will expect a higher salary, a higher salary will ultimately come from more expensive eyewear because of the higher standards and specialization. If internet sales are allowed to continue illegally and not play by the same rules, it will force the brick and mortar dispensaries out of business.

[Barry Santini]

I disagree, braheem24.

Specialty products, and the clients who desire excellent service and care with state of the art products, will always find them in a B&M location.

Not everyone wants its cheaper. I certainly don'y buy this way.

B

[Uilleann]

We are again getting a bit heated, and probably should try to re-focus a bit. There is much we need, besides an education. A degree does not mean someone is necessarily smarter, but it does prove one thing......they underwent a program of study that proves they completed requirements for a given body of knowledge. Will a degree make you bend a temple better? Of course, not, but it will provide for those looking at us from the outside that we have some level of education. At present, we cannot complete with ODs legislatively, but with a degree, coupled with our practical training that would be formalized into a specifice structure, we at least have a leg to stand on. It is all about appearances. We must develop some structure across the country, and that includes education. Once that is done, then we can legislate more effectively. ANy guarantees? No. Will it be easy? No. But if we listen to many of you we would all just quit and go home. Do not surrender. We can do better!

And before someone reads this and thinks they may have to learn something new if they are currently practicing as an Optician, please read the thread. We are seeking to discuss the need to stiffen requirements for FUTURE Opticians.

Agreed - to a point. Education is a vital and key component to ANY advancement of a technical field I believe. Medical fields even more so. However, to apply the same logic to the current ABO test, it "proves they completed requirements for a given body of knowledge." But as I think we all know far too well, it:

A. Is absolutely NO guarantee of competency even so.
&
B. Demonstrates that even WITH an ABO certification, the view of the public is little (if any) changed as to the role/ability/competency of a given optician to 'outperform' their peers in the field.

A very real point is made that this is as much about public perceptions of the need for opticians in a world where one can now take their own measurements and fit their own glasses online. Thankfully, most consumers are intelligent enough to see that train wreck for what it is, but I would strongly agree that internet regulation, and even prohibition is important for the future of dispensing and opticianry in general.

When you look at it - the public isn't concerned much at all with the diplomas, certifications or licenses on the wall of most health care practitioners. To be frank, I assume that my own health care providers are perfectly qualified to treat my needs in the most effective manner possible. I'm far more concerned in my day to day life if the department of health certificate is current at the restaurant I eat dinner in!

So it would seem to stand to reason, that a massive public education campaign be undertaken as well, so support the cause of public awareness of what a (possibly future) nationally licensed optician truly is, and why it is (again, hopefully in future) required to fit eyeglasses.

But again, this requires two things we don't have yet: National licensure, and standardized (and vastly improved) educational and practical standards.

So, back to the beginning again. Let's get the ball moving in that direction. Locally, then regionally, and ultimately nationally. But unless there's a unified voice, it will go exactly where it's always gone.....nowhere.

Batter up!

[Uilleann]

I disagree, braheem24.

Specialty products, and the clients who desire excellent service and care with state of the art products, will always find them in a B&M location.

Not everyone wants its cheaper. I certainly don't buy this way.

B

Barry, the trouble is mandating that EVERYONE buy that way however - right? I mean, that is what we're after isn't it? We want to regulate the entry into the field from where it is today (anyone with a pulse can do it - as seems to be the consensus), to a place where it takes not only motivation and smarts, but a demonstrated dedication to both the field, and one's own professional and educational integrity. Raising the bar, so that we can all dispense at a level closer to where you are today. That's a GREAT PLACE TO BE! And not to say that we wish to dilute your own accomplishments, you inspire so many of us here daily! But rather to, if I may say so, use you as a a benchmark that we should all aspire to achieve - and hopefully even more - as an entire profession.

[kcount]

... just give me tasks to do and I get them done. This is also a key place our current leaders fail, we have the dumb and blind doing the thinking based on the vision they see for our future. Much of our talent is disenfranchised with our organizations so we're left with the crap we have now.

YrahG, here's a mission. Go get supporters in your area. Get them to sign on to a movement that we're starting here and now. Its time for Opticians to stand up and be counted.

It is much easier (and cheaper) to build a new house, than to rehab one that's foundation is rotted beyond repair.

Just start over...

Agreed. So, lets set fire to Rome and watch it all burn.

Here, you are correct. It does in fact come off to me as rather rude.....:cheers:

I'm sorry if my statements offend you.... .

Would you two please stop squabling. Your filling my in box with insanely long posts that interupt my cocktailing.

Cheers to you both. You each have a place in this new order. Now kiss and make up and get supporters in your area.

Dr McDonald and Dr Ferguson,

I have seen over the years that if there is any motive behind your pushing so hard to make this profession better it's only going to help me and those I like to call opticians and brothers. With that said either one of you says jump and my response will be how high. Count me in to any conference and I'll pick Fezz up this go round. so that's Fezz+1.

I would also like to add whatever standard is discussed and set in place as the minimum, I don't want to be grandfathered into anything. I'll earn my stripes.

Dr Ferguson,
I would love a copy of that speach or document, my email address harrychiling "@t" gmail ".dot" com

Harry, you just rock.

... And before someone reads this and thinks they may have to learn something new if they are currently practicing as an Optician, please read the thread. We are seeking to discuss the need to stiffen requirements for FUTURE Opticians.

Dr. McDolald lets start talking about dates and time's

Higher standards without legistlatin and enforcement of internet sales as an illegal act will be the demise of opticianary.

Higher degree graduates will expect a higher salary, a higher salary will ultimately come from more expensive eyewear because of the higher standards and specialization. If internet sales are allowed to continue illegally and not play by the same rules, it will force the brick and mortar dispensaries out of business.

Agreed and this needs to be a focus on future points when this all gets off the ground.

[kcount]

I disagree, braheem24.

Specialty products, and the clients who desire excellent service and care with state of the art products, will always find them in a B&M location.

Not everyone wants its cheaper. I certainly don'y buy this way.

B

Just had a lady come in, only wants high end. Blinde was too low end for her. Your concept lives!

[Fezz]

I would like to see a first gathering by mid-June. Warren has offered a gathering place, which works fine for me. I am open to venture elsewhere as well. I would love to chat with anybody who is ready to step up. PM me contact info and I will prank you, err...ahh, I mean call you and start an open dialogue. I am energized by the potential! I am humbled by the dedication and devotion that both Dr. McDonald and Dr. Ferguson share. These two men have fought to make a difference for years. I want to personally thank them for their struggles and embrace their offer to help!

I feel an overwhelming need to show these warriors that all was not in vain. They have made a difference. I need to try and make a difference as well.

The situation is dire, the current leadership has failed, and I refuse to bend over without at least trying.

What is the right way, what is the wrong way? Who knows!

The important thing is that the current sorry state of affairs has opened up new dialogue amongst us and we should grasp and embrace it and try to make a difference.

[kcount]

I would like to see a first gathering by mid-June. Warren has offered a gathering place, which works fine for me. I am open to venture elsewhere as well. I would love to chat with anybody who is ready to step up. PM me contact info and I will prank you, err...ahh, I mean call you and start an open dialogue. I am energized by the potential! I am humbled by the dedication and devotion that both Dr. McDonald and Dr. Ferguson share. These two men have fought to make a difference for years. I want to personally thank them for their struggles and embrace their offer to help!

I feel an overwhelming need to show these warriors that all was not in vain. They have made a difference. I need to try and make a difference as well.

The situation is dire, the current leadership has failed, and I refuse to bend over without at least trying.

What is the right way, what is the wrong way? Who knows!

The important thing is that the current sorry state of affairs has opened up new dialogue amongst us and we should grasp and embrace it and try to make a difference.

PM sent