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Thread: Expensive, therefore unscratchable

  1. #1
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    Expensive, therefore unscratchable

    There is a thread (now closed) on another forum containing a complaint from a consumer. The nub of his complaint is that his PAL's were costly (the optician called them "the best"), and therefore shouldn't have scratched. This is like saying that you should be able to drive your Rolls into a wall without damage because, like, you paid a lot. Zeiss lenses aren't harder than other brands, whatever their design virtues may be.

    The familiar variant of this is the plaintive, wide-eyed question, "How could these lenses have gotten scratched?". Well, only one way; something harder than the lenses was brought into repeated contact with them. The science isn't complicated, so why does the question need asking? And why do intelligent people pretend to be stupid?

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    Rising Star
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    Because they want them replaced at no charge.

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    OptiWizard Mr. Finney's Avatar
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    Well their last lenses never scratched!

    ;) :hammer:
    Bryan Finley, Florida Board Certified Licensed Dispensing Optician

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Finney View Post
    Well their last lenses never scratched!

    ;) :hammer:
    One of my favorite lines from "The Big Easy"; "I shot him before and he never died!".

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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finefocus View Post
    And why do intelligent people pretend to be stupid?
    They are not pretending.
    .

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    I love the Rolls analogy. I will use that tomorrow. Because I have this conversation with customers every day. It's like I have 20 different 3 year olds every day asking why the sky is blue.

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    OptiWizard Yeap's Avatar
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    probably they just can't accept that they have scratch the lens and 'blame' the lens for being so fragile.
    Yeap


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    Optician Extraordinaire
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    It is also possible that the lenses had a bad AR or scratch coat and really shouldn't have scratched/crazed like they did. I've seen AR go bad for no known reason after a couple of years.

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    I read that thread. That entire episode would have been prevented had the Optician used a premium A/R coat with a solid two year warranty AND the patient had followed the simple instructions from the Optician on how to care for them and also how occasional return visits for adjustments can alert the Optician to any unacceptable wear requiring replacement during the warranty period. JMHO.
    Chris Beard
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    Blue Jumper Double profit.......................

    Quote Originally Posted by FVCCHRIS View Post
    I read that thread. That entire episode would have been prevented had the Optician used a premium A/R coat with a solid two year warranty AND the patient had followed the simple instructions from the Optician on how to care for them and also how occasional return visits for adjustments can alert the Optician to any unacceptable wear requiring replacement during the warranty period. JMHO.
    What about if the person works in a chemical plant get into contact with chemicals or their fumes. The one that works in a continously dusty environment. The that leaves them on the dash on a hot day, ond the food worker that go in and out of deep freezer ?

    There are hundreds of possibilities for AR coatings failures and will also affect the so called premium coatings that are sold at inflated prices.

    When you can give a full warranty, the selling price already includes the cost for another pair of lenses. If a lens does not have to be replaced your supllier has made a double profit.
    Chris Ryser
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    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter DragonLensmanWV's Avatar
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    I also use a car analogy. Like a Mercedes is waaay more expensive than a Celebrity. Run them both into a wall at 100 mph, and they look pretty much the same. BUT, one cost more, so it should hold up, right?

    It's sad that consumers will willingly wear the mantle of ignorance if it will get them something free. Our warranty card cites some specific exemptions along with general conditions, such as we have had presented to us in the past.

    "I super glued my broken frame together but got a lot on the lenses, so I used a knife to pop off the hardened drops of super glue. Only thing is, I cut halfway through the lens..the replacements are free, right?"

    "What!!?? All I did was run over them with a car, they cost a lot so they should have held up better!"

    "You mean I can't grind them on the sidewalk without scratching them? You must have used cheap substitutes and charged me for premium lenses."


    "I lost my glasses. I want my free replacements right now!"


    Consumers that read this:
    Every one of us has heard these comments from customers. Can't you all just WISE UP?

    Hey, maybe we need a Dumb Consumer Comments thread.:D
    DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Barry Santini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLensmanWV View Post
    "What!!?? All I did was run over them with a car, they cost a lot so they should have held up better!"

    "You mean I can't grind them on the sidewalk without scratching them? You must have used cheap substitutes and charged me for premium lenses."


    "I lost my glasses. I want my free replacements right now!".:D
    It's simple and axiomatic:

    People want cellphones and IPHONES.

    People do not want eyeglasses.

    Solution: The eyecare industry really needs to look at eyewear from a completely new perspective, with new "eyes" so to speak, free of history, experience, opinion and prejudice.

    Enable CONSUMERS to DESIRE EYEWEAR. It's not so far fetched.

    If you think it is, then you're part of the problem...not the solution.

    Barry
    Last edited by Barry Santini; 02-04-2010 at 10:59 AM.

  13. #13
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    I may be a little off base here, but how much do we contribute to this attitude by portraying eyewear/sunwear as a fashion accessory?

  14. #14
    Barticus Prime - Optibot opticianbart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgcopley View Post
    Because they want them replaced at no charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbaker View Post
    They are not pretending.
    .
    I want to give one of you a prize... and I'm not sure which one of you wins first place...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Finney View Post
    Well their last lenses never scratched!

    ;) :hammer:
    glass lenses were unscratchable dontchaknow.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonLensmanWV View Post
    "I lost my glasses. I want my free replacements right now!"
    I get this one all the time, and drives me absolutely CRAZY, especially when they're all confrontational and angry.
    Bart Smith, continuing to be awesome since 1982 so that you don't have to.

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    ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    What about if the person works in a chemical plant get into contact with chemicals or their fumes. The one that works in a continously dusty environment. The that leaves them on the dash on a hot day, ond the food worker that go in and out of deep freezer ?

    There are hundreds of possibilities for AR coatings failures and will also affect the so called premium coatings that are sold at inflated prices.

    When you can give a full warranty, the selling price already includes the cost for another pair of lenses. If a lens does not have to be replaced your supllier has made a double profit.
    Yes?? What about those people whom you mentioned that are innappropriately sold an A/R coat by someone who did not ask the right lifestyle questions when determinig the ideal lens combination? Those people weren't well served were they? I think paying a premium price up front, then replacing-if necessary- for the patient's satisfaction is worth it. I don't like telling someone that I now have to remove something that I sold them on 6-12 months ago because it turns out they weren't a good candidate for it-- that would be a bigger mistake I think.
    Chris Beard
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    I'm a Medford man – Medford, Oregon. Up in Medford, we take our time making up our minds."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FVCCHRIS View Post
    Yes?? What about those people whom you mentioned that are innappropriately sold an A/R coat by someone who did not ask the right lifestyle questions when determinig the ideal lens combination? Those people weren't well served were they? ..
    I agree that this is an Optician issue, not a customer issue. Its our responsibility when selling and dispensing products to explain the proper care of lenses and the consequences of failing that. The new coatings are amazing (anyone else remember pushing sheets of A/R off brand new lenses?) so I think we may be getting lazy. We often set the expectations unreasonably high in hopes of getting the sale. I still inform each patient of the downsides of every product in addition to its benefit. We need to do that until we have perfect solutions in optical... which will be never.
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy ~Benjamin Franklin

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    re: Expensive,therfore unscratchable

    A guy called me the other day, complaining about the super-expensive ($450 -- transitions PALs) glasses he bought at WM. He said they had scratched within six days of his purchasing them, and he had returned them for a refund because, of course, there's no way expensive lenses should scratch in that amount of time. He said he is a carpenter and wants a pair of glasses with an unlimited free replacement plan for scratching and damage.

    I suggested industrial safety glasses for work and a better pair to wear when out. He wanted someone to give him unlimited free glasses when he damaged them. Things didn't work out between us; I don't like to reward people for being irresponsible.

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    OptiWizard Mr. Finney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefe View Post
    I don't like to reward people for being irresponsible.
    Here here! :cheers: Just as in so many other aspects of life, people just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.
    Bryan Finley, Florida Board Certified Licensed Dispensing Optician

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    FVCHRIS and Sharpstick, you are absoulutly correct but you are talking about, reasonable people understanding reasonable limitations and personal liability. The crux of this thread is the unreasonable expectations of the client making you responsable for their irresponsabilty.

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    "you said these were scratch proof" I love it when pats. come in with this line. I've worked here since my office has opened and no one at the office has ever mentioned that our lenses are scratch proof but scratch resistant. I think there is a word filter in the minds of consumers that processes the word resistant to proof.

    I "love" it when some of our folks here sell A/R to carpenters/industrial workers.
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    When you can give a full warranty, the selling price already includes the cost for another pair of lenses. If a lens does not have to be replaced your supllier has made a double profit.[/QUOTE]

    (1) Many products simply can't be sold without a warranty; many customers just won't make a move without one.

    (2) The price for warranted products isn't 200% of normal; some "insurance" money is charged, but the assumption isn't that every pair will be replaced.

    (3) What would happen to your lab bill if no warranties or redo's were included? Lab people, how much less if every sale was final and as-is?

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Gadzooks, this is the bane of my existence as well.


    Let's review history:
    There was never a "World War I" until there was a "World War II". Likewise, there were never "scratch resistant lenses" before uncoated CR-39 existed.

    "Scratch resistant lenses" are a total myth. Resistant is a relative term--resistant compared to WHAT? Non-coated. Try explaining that to a patient.

    You say "scratch resistant" they hear "scratch proof". So I never, ever say "scratch resistant" anymore. If someone asks me if the lenses are scratch resistant, I say "no such thing".

    And let's get real: when we pay the extra lab fee for SRC, we're buying a warranty, not a better product. (Anyone remember Tegra? Yikes.) Sure, sure, maybe the Bayer Abrasion people would disagree.

    So, you'd be better off doing things this way:
    "Do you want a scratch warranty with those glasses, for $20?"
    "Scratch warranty is included in your progressives"

    And maybe even:
    "Do you want the protection plan? For $49 you get replacement of your lenses for whatever reason and a replacement frame for whatever reason (excluding loss or abuse--need some loopholes, here)."

    Then you set the conditions--your conditions, reasonable conditions.

    That way, if they decline and you mark it down, they can kiss it when they return to complain.

    You'll probably make as much money on it as Circuit City! (Oops, bad example.)

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    Master OptiBoarder Striderswife's Avatar
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    drk, I like your suggestions. You're on the right track, I think.

    I try to make sure I say to people that the lenses are not scratch proof; there's no such thing. I am in the habit of saying "scratch resistant," but always in comparison to a lens that has no scratch protection. And different treatments are better than others in the prevention of scratches. But I always supply the patient with a bottle of cleaner and a new cloth, and the instructions to wet the lenses first, and to wash the cloth occassionally. Most people it doesn't occur to them to wash their cloth. :hammer: I do also mention that without the protection, they aren't warrantied against the scratches. I don't promise they won't scratch, even with proper care, but I let them know we'll honor the warranty and replace them if they do.
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

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    I like the No Fault scratch warrenty: If you scratch 'em it aint our fault!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Master OptiBoarder rbaker's Avatar
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    Since I am now officially a consumer rather than a producer I see things from the other side of the equation. I am amazed by the claims made by eyeglass clerks in some of the places I visit for my eyecare these days. I will admit that I do sometimes "bait" my verbal encounters but the fact remains - these salespeople will say or do just about anything to make a sale. "If these glasses ever fail to live up to your outlandish expectations we will cheerfully refund your money! No questions asked."

    Now, I don't want to get into a discussion of semantics here but there is a difference in everyone's interpretation of "scratch proof" and "scratch resistant." You can argue till you are blue in the face the meaning of "impact resistant" and "unbreakable. The operative definition depends on whether you are the breaker or the breakee.

    Price does indeed enter into the equation. Should not $600 dollar lenses be twice as durable as $300.00 lenses? I believe that it is a fair question for the consumer to ask. Just remember, if you make a statement concerning usability of a product (scratch resistance) you had better be willing to honor the statement.

    You have inherited policies set up in the past. Years ago you could buy a pair of bifocals for about a halt a days wages. No guarantees. If you broke them you bought a new pair or had them repaired. Along came Mr Big Shot Optical Corporation and their first marketing ploy was the breakage guarantee. Marketing pressures forced Small Potatoes Optical to follow suite and the race was on.

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