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Thread: Are we getting carried away?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Hanlin View Post
    Again, if the pupil is small the issue is minimized. However, in distance viewing (and in dim lighting) the pupil dilates- which increases the area of the lens being used (and therefore the impact of any aberrations present in the system).
    Hmmm, actually that the pupil generally dilates in certain distance range, especially for distant viewing, is totally new to me. I would more likely assume it depends on the "attention" the viewer pays to the object of interest, as also Wikipedia cites it here:

    The Task-evoked pupillary response is the tendency of pupils to dilate slightly in response to loads on working memory, increased attention, sensory discrimination, or other cognitive loads[4].

    4. ^ Beatty, Jackson; Brennis Lucero-Wagoner (2000). "The Pupillary System". in John T. Cacioppo, Gary Berntson, Louis G. Tassinary (eds.). Handbook of Psychophysiology (2 ed.). Cambridge University Press. pp. 142–162. ISBN 052162634X.

    which can also occur when viewing near objects!

    Lighting is a totally different issue, however also here the retina does the main work, as is usually assumed, as the pupil area in older subject might only change by about 1:8^2 ~ 1:60, while the visual system can adopt to lighting conditions over say 1:100000!

  2. #77
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    So both the Physio and Physio Enhanced provide the sharpest vision. It seems like the only reason to upgrade someone into the Enhanced is if they are consistently in low-light conditions?

    From variluxusa.com -

    Varilux Physio and Varilux Physio Short lenses are ideal for:
    Patients who want the sharpest vision at every distance.

    Varilux Physio Enhanced lenses are ideal for:
    Patients who want the sharpest vision at every distance and in every light condition especially low-light

    I guess my question is - is this just a marketing ploy or is there actually a reason to push the Enhanced?

    Or I suppose I could sell 100% Ipseo (but then would I be depriving them of the sharpest vision at every distance?).

  3. #78
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    Pupil Size !

    Who does the refraction in USA ? are optometrist Educated to do that or only Eye doctors ?



    best regards

    Peter

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by YrahG View Post
    You have been following the wrong thread, the spherical aberration being talked about is on the surface of the lens, the front surface to be exact. Nothing to do with the cornea. The pupil size is only relevent because it will determine the amount of rays that can enter at any one time, hence sph abe and coma.

    At this point it really seems like you are more intent to be right than to discuss the facts and potential benefits (again I said potential). I don't have the time to teach you optics and you don't seem to have the patience to read a book, so we are at an impasse.
    Oh my god.

    Yes we are really in impasse I can see.
    This statement only make the Pupil size question even more unrealistic. Even Essilor agree on that according to the message above. I can go so far to agree, that you can make a special and better design in low light conditions only, but this has nothing to do with the pupil size. All new Freeform designs work better in low light conditions because of power and design compensating are getting better. -but again, nothing to do with the pupil size. Itīs still a marketing gimmick.

  5. #80
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    I've never met Pete. I've never had lunch with the guy. I don't know his kids. But he *seems* to be a pretty up and up guy. I don't believe that he'd try to tell us that it was just some "marketing gimmick" - preferred in a blind test of actual progressive lens designs on actual presbyopic patients if there wasn't at least some truth to it.

    Sure, I could be wrong, he could be the devil himself, and play a mean fiddle to boot...but in the end, I think his fiddle music would just be a cheap ploy to get me to buy better strings. ;):shiner:

    Thanks for the expansive info you've provided Pete - and more than that, thanks for keeping a cool and level head through all the mud here! :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

  6. #81
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    Who does what in the US of A

    Who does the refraction in USA ? are optometrist Educated to do that or only Eye doctors ?



    best regards

    Peter

  7. #82
    ATO Member HarryChiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCP View Post
    Oh my god.

    Yes we are really in impasse I can see.
    This statement only make the Pupil size question even more unrealistic. Even Essilor agree on that according to the message above. I can go so far to agree, that you can make a special and better design in low light conditions only, but this has nothing to do with the pupil size. All new Freeform designs work better in low light conditions because of power and design compensating are getting better. -but again, nothing to do with the pupil size. Itīs still a marketing gimmick.
    Actually the pupil size is directly related to spherical aberration.

    Jalie, M. The principles of ophthalmic dispensing. 2nd ed. London, ENG: The Association of British Dispensing Opticians; 1972.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    Actually the pupil size is directly related to spherical aberration.

    Jalie, M. The principles of ophthalmic dispensing. 2nd ed. London, ENG: The Association of British Dispensing Opticians; 1972.
    Thank you but that was not necessary, this is a commonly known fact in lens design. So to continue to respond to his statements is moot.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryChiling View Post
    Actually the pupil size is directly related to spherical aberration.

    Jalie, M. The principles of ophthalmic dispensing. 2nd ed. London, ENG: The Association of British Dispensing Opticians; 1972.
    This is actually what im talking about and im sure this is what essilor is talking about. I just dont Think a progressive lens Can solve this issue in All light conditions.

    Mike

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCP View Post
    This is actually what im talking about and im sure this is what essilor is talking about. I just dont Think a progressive lens Can solve this issue in All light conditions.

    Mike
    If essilor sets the pupil size to the largest possible pupil size imaginable then yes they could correct this condition, but at what cost? Aberrations are not independent, a change in one will cause a change in another. I too question the effectiveness of the claims on the lens, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they have corrected Sph. Ab. but was it necessary? And at what costs? If the lens becomes more astigmatic as a consequence I don't think it would be worth it. So in true fashion we are argueing over some claim that essilor makes about an aberration that has traditionally been ignored due to it's minimal effects. So Yes yoru rightit is a marketing gimmic, but it's not a marketing gimmic because the didn't do anything it's a marketing gimmic because what they did may not be of any consequence.

  11. #86
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    At the end off the day

    Sure at the End of the day

    Essilor makes great progressiv lenses !!!

    it just the way they sell it, that sometimes get a little flambuent :-)


    best regards

    Peter

  12. #87
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    ...but then again...

    Show me a company - *ANY* company - in optical who doesn't at times wax poetic about the virtues of their own lens/product when compared against another competitor. Everyone does it. But by the same token, you're hard pressed *NOT* to find a very good lens/product by *ANY* of the same. Find what you're comfortable with - what works for you! And in the famous words of that pointy-eared feller: Live long and prosper! :p;):cheers::cheers::cheers:

  13. #88
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    WOW! This thread has been interesting.

    Thanks PeteH and YrahG!
    Properly medicated for your protection.

  14. #89
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    This has been very interesting to say the least. Great job Pete! Congratulations on bettering your previous design too. You guys are always tweaking.

    I have a question and one that I don't have the answer or any real knowledge about. Early in the thread you were talking about "design on the fly" and how you have a dedicated comm line. Is this really just file transfer in "real time" vs. data file transfer in memory bank? I don't know how many files Shamir or others provide to their FBS manufacturers. I sounds really cool to say "We have NSA supercomputers that calculate your Rx to the exact time of day, etc." vs other manufacturers that have already precalculated the known parameters for the range of Rx possibilities. Please someone enlighten us all.

    BTW, I am forwarding this thread to our sales team. There is wonderful info here not only on FF but Essilor design philosphy too. Others are always envious of the top dog and I am sure that I am no exception. You do make good products. I for one appreciate Pete's efforts to educate us all.
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