Opticianry and Optometry

[rbaker]

Enough of this......I almost did not post on this thread, because i have said these same things over and over again for many years. I do not any significant change happening in my lifetime, but still do not give up. Maybe I am just obsessed, but I want Opticianry to reach its potential, as Optometry has done. I wish you all well in your optical endeavors and encourage you to thing beyond what is, to what could be if we only can develop a shared vision.

NOTE: I confine my comments to the opticianry in the USA.

You are probably coming to the point in life that I did a number of years ago. Neither you nor I nor all the kings men can prevent the craft of opticianry from slipping further and further from what it once could have been. Many of us did our best

Back before the formal school programs began the craft was passed down through apprenticeships. If you were fortunate enough to work under a talented master optician you became a talented optician. If you worked for a bufoo you became a buffoon. In many cases it was the blind leading the blind and it seems that in a Darwinian sense the buffoons were great in number and multiplied. In the sixties a few public schools sprang into being and did quite well. However, they were too few and provided terminal vocational education - that is to say you did not take traditional college courses and your credits were not transferable.

Some states were successful in playing the education card and did get licensing but most states were either unmotivated, unwilling or unable to push for state licensing.

Of course there were outside influences by optometry and ophthalmology and big opticianry all of which have conspired to reduce the requirements for a career in opticianry to merely a pulse.

So, in my opinion, the battle has been fought. The craft of Opticianry has been soundly defeated. Many of us old timers did our best but we were too few. We fought the good fight and now it is time to put down the petard and pick up the fly rod.

[MarySue]

Many of my coworkers, especially the older seasoned ones say things like" why are you doing all of that?" When they see me studying or getting my higher certifications. Some even try to discourage me. The younger ones are either indifferent or supportive, depends on their mindset. The supervisors are nearly hostile. When I picked up my first AC last year, the lab chief said, and I quote "that aint gonna do you no good here". It has also been suggested to me that I should take my AC certification down from my desk because its pi$$ing folks off since it makes me look smarter than them. I have not taken it down.

I wrote my masters paper and submitted it a few days ago, and when I told the "bosses" just a few minutes ago, the head boss didn't even blink. Didn't say a word. Just walked out of the lab and went home.
This is the hostility I get for trying to excel.

Wes - Bravo! Keep learning, keep studying and improving your skill level. Regardless of the benefits in place currently, the more you know, the more valuable you will be to your next place of employment. I'll bet there are dozens of places willing to offer opportunities which exceed the benefits of the military, with far less risk!!!:cheers:

Keep your focus

[Wes]

We fought the good fight and now it is time to put down the petard and pick up the fly rod.

Hey, Dick, I'm still in the fight, and I don't fly fish. Maybe I'm missing out. Take a break, you've earned it.
Marysue, I'm not in the military anymore, but I do still work for them (DA CIV). The most dangerous part of my day is the commute to work and back.

Opticianry in the US seems like it parallels that movie, Idiocracy.

[MarySue]

To the second concern: If you think about it, Opticians are well paid for what they do in most parts of the country. There is little difference between the salaries of licensed and unlicensed states (about 2500.00 a year according to my research). We are paid more than school teachers in most states and have very little in preparation in comparison. If we tout the income potential, and show we are moving in a positive direction, we will again attract the best and brightest.....not those who enter the field because it is easy! Now someone will chime in and say they work for $8.00/hour and that is all their state pays. If that is the case, you must have had tremendous difficulty finding anything else. which sounds like you may be in the wrong field, because you are well below the average in both my research and the NAO annual survey, which indicates around 40K across the country.

This salary comparison is from http://www.jsr.vccs.edu/curriculum/p...icianryAAS.htm
It's my old school (graduated in 1983-licensed in VA in 1984, and registered in New Zealand in 1999) I found when I worked in the States that my VA pay packet was quite good for a basic 9-5 job, and when I returned to Illinois (non licensed state) I was offered a job at minimum wage running 4 stores. It was quite a difference in my mind, and the real reason that education needs to be standardised.

LocationPay
Period2006
United States
Hourly Yearly
10% - $9.27 $19,300
25% - $11.33 $23,600
Median - $14.57 $30,300
75% - $18.73 $39,000
90% - $22.90 $47,600

Virginia
Hourly Yearly
10% - $11.43 $23,800
25% - $15.13 $31,400
Median - $19.59 $40,700
75% - $23.67 $49,200
90% - $27.73 $57,700

[MarySue]

Hey, Dick, I'm still in the fight, and I don't fly fish. Maybe I'm missing out. Take a break, you've earned it.
Marysue, I'm not in the military anymore, but I do still work for them (DA CIV). The most dangerous part of my day is the commute to work and back.

Opticianry in the US seems like it parallels that movie, Idiocracy.

There are only two places that I know of on the planet that understand the importance of education, standardisation, etc. --- Great Britain, and Ontario Canada --- kudos to them, and if they weren't so wet and cold, I consider picking up a fly rod myself and moving!

[Darryl Meister]

Education must be required across all jurisdictions before Opticianry can be accepted as legitimate

I agree. But the only way to truly motivate education in this field at this point is through licensure. And apprenticeship and "grandfather clauses" to obtain a license will have to remain an alternative to formal education initially, simply because there is not a sufficient number of formally educated opticians in the job market.

There really is no other viable option. We can argue the merits of education all day, but it is a moot point without licensure, because only those who are already seeking voluntarily formal education would continue to pursue education unless it becomes a barrier to entry to the profession.

Further, before expanding the scope of opticianry, a sufficient number of opticians in the job market must have ben exposed to the necessary education. The only successful progression of opticianry as a career is pretty straightforward, in my opinion, so I've been surprised to see so much arguing over it over the years:

1. Promote importance of training and ABO certification among state opticians and consumers.

2. Enact licensing requirements with both apprenticeship (with ABO) and formal education options.

3. Establish formal education programs, which should also include training in the curriculum for "future" competencies.

4. Expand scope of practice once a sufficient number of opticians with training in newer competencies are in the job market.

Is any of this possible at this point? I can't say. But I am pretty certain that the longer opticians fail to successfully push their professional agenda, the less likely this will happen. Policy makers are generally looking to deregulate industries, not regulate industries that have been coasting along just fine without government intervention.

[drk]

I tread carefully, here.

I appreciate the "improvement from within" mentality that you have. I even think that optometry thinks that they've "improved from within". I'm not so sure.

I'm of the cynical opinon that it comes down to power. Not education, or licensure.

If opticianry gets sufficient marketshare, then it has all the power it needs to do whatever it wants.

Look for marketshare, first.

[wmcdonald]

Is any of this possible at this point? I can't say. But I am pretty certain that the longer opticians fail to successfully push their professional agenda, the less likely this will happen. Policy makers are generally looking to deregulate industries, not regulate industries that have been coasting along just fine without government intervention.

Darryl,Licensure will never happen unless we expand scope in some manner. You are right, unless we show some real value to it, folks will not support it. With the current crop of folks who entered to field to find a job versus a profession, we may never advance beyond the current mess we are in, and in the end become completely unimportant......replaced by techs completely. We may be too late, and it is unfortunate. We could be so much more. I am proud of young men like you, who have learned well, and found your niche'. If we do not move quickly soon, it is all over. I look forward to this years OAA Leadership meeting in Memphis coming up next month. Lets see what the new leadership brings to the table. I hope it is more than the same old thing! I continue to go, and always remain optimistic that we will be able to one day find new ground.

[MarySue]

1. Promote importance of training and ABO certification among state opticians and consumers.

2. Enact licensing requirements with both apprenticeship (with ABO) and formal education options.

3. Establish formal education programs, which should also include training in the curriculum for "future" competencies.

4. Expand scope of practice once a sufficient number of opticians with training in newer competencies are in the job market.

Brilliant! I've heard # 4 before but didn't understand exactly what it meant ... how do you get the training without the expansion and vice versa ... which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Taken in the context of this conversation thread, I've got it! Eureka :idea:.

Thanks!
MSH

[HarryChiling]

1. Promote importance of training and ABO certification among state opticians and consumers.

The consumer would be the untapped market here, not many consumers know that their opticians are not educated, their was a link to a study here about what consumers thought and a majority thought that opticians had a bachelors. They would be shocked had they known the truth.

[Roy R. Ferguson]

As most of the regular visitors to the site know, Dr. McDonald and I have been proponents of formal education and professional advancement for opticians for many years. At this juncture, may be worthwhile to revisit some of the avenues I have created and offered to the opticians of Tennessee with absolutely no success.

The first was a college based certificate program for apprentices that could be used to complete an AAS degree. Coupled with this was a degree competition program for the licensed opticians where college credit was granted for having earned the license. The state society and the licensing board soundly trounced both plans. A few years later, I designed a different program through another state college that met a similar fate.

Not wanting to admit total defeat, I then wrote and presented to the state society a college program granting college credit for the ABO/NCLE certification and a series of classes for the licensed optician, providing both continuing education and college credit. Using this venue it would have been possible for the licensed optician in the state to procure an AAS in a couple of years or so. By the way, cost for this degree route was minimal and readily accessible. This too was rejected.

Later, in an effort to expand professional involvement, I designed and presented a PhotoScreening program to the state society that would have allowed opticians to work with the state Lions Club in the prevention of childhood blindness. While other states are pursuing this model, Tennessee remains on the sidelines.

Finally, I wrote and proposed a vision screening certificate course to the state society. This quickly died with no action.

While these results cannot be expanded to include all state societies and all opticians, it does provide some insight to the field in general. Simply, when presented with a choice between ignorance and professional knowledge most opticians thus far have opted for the easiest route.

Roy

[rbaker]

Roy - http://www.orvis.com/fly-fishing

[HarryChiling]

As most of the regular visitors to the site know, Dr. McDonald and I have been proponents of formal education and professional advancement for opticians for many years. At this juncture, may be worthwhile to revisit some of the avenues I have created and offered to the opticians of Tennessee with absolutely no success.

The first was a college based certificate program for apprentices that could be used to complete an AAS degree. Coupled with this was a degree competition program for the licensed opticians where college credit was granted for having earned the license. The state society and the licensing board soundly trounced both plans. A few years later, I designed a different program through another state college that met a similar fate.

Not wanting to admit total defeat, I then wrote and presented to the state society a college program granting college credit for the ABO/NCLE certification and a series of classes for the licensed optician, providing both continuing education and college credit. Using this venue it would have been possible for the licensed optician in the state to procure an AAS in a couple of years or so. By the way, cost for this degree route was minimal and readily accessible. This too was rejected.

Later, in an effort to expand professional involvement, I designed and presented a PhotoScreening program to the state society that would have allowed opticians to work with the state Lions Club in the prevention of childhood blindness. While other states are pursuing this model, Tennessee remains on the sidelines.

Finally, I wrote and proposed a vision screening certificate course to the state society. This quickly died with no action.

While these results cannot be expanded to include all state societies and all opticians, it does provide some insight to the field in general. Simply, when presented with a choice between ignorance and professional knowledge most opticians thus far have opted for the easiest route.

Roy

Roy,

TX has taken your photo screening and applied it to their society in the same way you had mentioned to me a few years back, I had told you I was interested and have compeleted 5 screenings in my area before it became difficult to obtain the photo paper. I purchased it with the intent of getting a program off the ground and then passing it off to our state society, but they were not interested in new ideas and had their own agenda which did not include opticians.

Warren started a program where a school in Canada offered the very same thing you suggested a way to get credits for the ABO and NCLE towards a diploma, TX implemented it and is still running with it, Sam Johnson was in the first class along with me and few others the cost was affordable at $2k, and the option of taking it over the net with mid terms and finals being proctored by a professional in your geographic area was a huge step in making the program a viable option.

Your state society and licensing board are fools, why would they want to destroy an available option? Oh yeah, they don't have an education and don't want one. How did these bafoons get into these leadership positions to begin with and how do we throw them out?

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Hi Dick:

Orvis and fly fishing would be a great suggestion for most folks. Unfortunately I had to give up fishing once dynamite became so expensive and difficult to obtain. My current water sports are related to search and rescue. Check out our website at www.tnsrta.org.

Roy

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Fuji makes film that will fit the PhotoScreener. The technology is a bit dated but it still works if you have a camera. We still use ours with great success.

NAIT offers a great program for opticians. Still, the field as a whole suffers from educational apathy and continues to ignore the huge deficit in actual competencies. If opticians are unable to perform common opticianry related tasks, how can they ever expect to gain licensure or expand their scope of practice? While the lack of a formal education component in opticianry is an impediment to professional growth; the breath and depth of ignorance is disastrous.

Roy

[Wes]

Oh yeah, they don't have an education and don't want one. How did these bafoons get into these leadership positions to begin with and how do we throw them out?

Its been my experience that most bufoons in leadership positions got there by butt-kissing, back-stabbing, and various other corrupt underhandednesses. These types of people rarely bother with learning their job; they advance through "other" means, and they rarely have anything other than their own interests at heart. They get hired/elected because they tell us what we want to hear. I have worked with many like this In my years with the military. I do still.
Wes

[Roy R. Ferguson]

its been my experience that most bufoons in leadership positions got there by butt-kissing, back-stabbing, and various other corrupt underhandednesses.

Ouch!

Roy

[Wes]

Still, the field as a whole suffers from educational apathy and continues to ignore the huge deficit in actual competencies. If opticians are unable to perform common opticianry related tasks, how can they ever expect to gain licensure or expand their scope of practice? While the lack of a formal education component in opticianry is an impediment to professional growth; the breath and depth of ignorance is disastrous.

Roy

I wonder though, just how bad it is compared to other fields. It seems to me that I'm met with gross incompetence in multiple fields of practice from medicine to law enforcement, contractors to customer service. Sometimes I think that what is wrong with opticianry is what is wrong with our society as a whole.
We no longer hold poor performers to a standard, instead we lower the standard. We tell everyone they're a winner. Our kids do poorer in comparison to other countries in math and sciences than they have since testing has been available. We're too fat and happy. Everything is me me me. Instant gratification and distractions to learning surround us. There are multiple fulfillment avenues for every vice possible.
With this pool to draw from, the question is: why would opticians be capable? In more than half of our states, neither a HS diploma nor a GED are a requirement to be a "optician". Clearly, with the lack of requirement for education and the possible money making potential of being in a so-called "professional" field, why WOULDN'T it attract a group of people generally looking for the path of least resistance?
Its not just opticians, its the declining imperial power (the USA) that they hail from. Wes

[Wes]

Ouch!

Roy

Ouch is right Doc, and any highly qualified person knows it's the truth.

Let's hope your new test weeds out more of the incompetents than the old test did. In my state anyway.
Here's a novel idea: I submit that opticians (and why not all healthcare professions) must requalify every three to five years! Make em keep and own their skills rather than cram for a test the night before, pass, and then forget most of what they "learned" for the test and never bothering to further their opticianry education.
Wes

[Barry Santini]

Ya know, the will of the people is to be heard...

and what I'm hearin', with my ear to the ground, is this whispering...

"We the people don't need no stinkin', educated, competanc'd opticians...

we done got the interent now...ha ha!"

B

[MarySue]

Ya know, the will of the people is to be heard...

and what I'm hearin', with my ear to the ground, is this whispering...

"We the people don't need no stinkin', educated, competanc'd opticians...

we done got the interent now...ha ha!"

B

Barry - please wash those ears out with soap - they've been on the ground too long! :cheers:

[Judy Canty]

Its been my experience that most bufoons in leadership positions got there by butt-kissing, back-stabbing, and various other corrupt underhandednesses. These types of people rarely bother with learning their job; they advance through "other" means, and they rarely have anything other than their own interests at heart. They get hired/elected because they tell us what we want to hear. I have worked with many like this In my years with the military. I do still.
Wes

I posted about this back in the '90's. The same people run the organizations because by and large no one else wants to spend the time or the dues money to become active members of their respective professional organizations. You get exactly what you paid for. Unless you're actively engaged, you don't have a dog in the fight.

[obxeyeguy]

I posted about this back in the '90's. The same people run the organizations because by and large no one else wants to spend the time or the dues money to become active members of their respective professional organizations. You get exactly what you paid for. Unless you're actively engaged, you don't have a dog in the fight.

Some very good points, but, some people are there to pursue their own personal agenda. They then form clics for said goals, and when if fact some newcomer gets in and bucks the "system", they vote them down continually. Frustration mounts, newcomer out, old guard finds someone to play with again.

I agree, you have to try, but it is extremly frustrating to go against the good old boys system and constantly get beat down.

I have been a member of the NCOA for about 10 years, and I have no clue where my dues go, or any of the money for that matter since I only receive info on the continuing Ed they put on. No info on what in fact they actually do for the opticians of NC, and that's sad. That would explain why I see more opticians at the Ce's that are not members( your entrance cards are a different color) as they probably feel the same way.

End of rant.

[Judy Canty]

Having been a part of the leadership of OAV and OAA, I can only advise you to either volunteer for a committee, or run for an office. I started as a regional director for OAV and attended the OAA Leadership Conference to become involved at the national level. It involves time and your own money, but I found the participation to be worth it. I can tell you that no one is going to ask, because most don't know the individual members very well. You'll have to jump in on your own.

I know we all talk about some hidden agenda or old boy network, but honestly, what advantage would be gotten from being President of an association that doesn't seem to accomplish much? Any association is only as strong as its active membership allows it to be. So, there are members and there are ACTIVE members. The active members (usually a small percentage of the total) are the ones who seem to be re-electing each other every year or two. The members are the ones who don't have the time or the inclination to do any more than write a check for their dues.

All of you who are members of your state associations, try attending a board meeting as a guest, you might be surprised at what you learn.

[MarySue]

Having been a part of the leadership of OAV and OAA, I can only advise you to either volunteer for a committee, or run for an office. I started as a regional director for OAV and attended the OAA Leadership Conference to become involved at the national level. It involves time and your own money, but I found the participation to be worth it. I can tell you that no one is going to ask, because most don't know the individual members very well. You'll have to jump in on your own.

I know we all talk about some hidden agenda or old boy network, but honestly, what advantage would be gotten from being President of an association that doesn't seem to accomplish much? Any association is only as strong as its active membership allows it to be. So, there are members and there are ACTIVE members. The active members (usually a small percentage of the total) are the ones who seem to be re-electing each other every year or two. The members are the ones who don't have the time or the inclination to do any more than write a check for their dues.

All of you who are members of your state associations, try attending a board meeting as a guest, you might be surprised at what you learn.

Judy thanks for this - I was president of our National Association for 3 years, and we were moving towards positive change. However, the new executive found it all a bit overwhelming, and things are focused more on learning and less on achieving advancement for D.O.'s in the country. I also volunteer on the Professional Development Committee for our registration board reviewing the learning put forward for our CPD programme (Continuing Professional Development.) So, saying that, I'm at a loss for where to next.

I would love to be "active" in the association, but there are enough people working on education sessions for the conference, and the current executive hasn't put forward any information about their two year plan yet. So wait and see I say. Who knows, maybe I will be able to help again.

Keep up the great work. Optics needs more people who are passionate about caring for the clients we see! Well done.:bbg: