Surfacing,...need some advice.

[fjpod]

Thanks Dragon and Braheem. AOA will be in Orlando in June. Maybe I will look you up then.

[braheem24]

Alright but try to keep the Florida trips down to a minimum, we're thinking of putting a quota on new yorkers :D

[fjpod]

Alright but try to keep the Florida trips down to a minimum, we're thinking of putting a quota on new yorkers :D

I thought all Floridians were transplanted New Yorkers. No?

[MIOPE]

I has read many valid reasons why and why not to have a surfacing lab. Having a lab is not just buying the machinery. You should add to it tools, materials (wax, polishing compound,etc), lens inventory, salary of the personel, the rent of the place where the lab and stock is, the cost of electricity, water a few other things i have forget.
Then you could calculate how many jobs you need to produce to make a lens cheaper than a outside lab. Do not forget that there are going to be a percentage of spoiled lenses and that this rate will increase from time to time when you have problem with a machinery.
Also add the extra stress and time you will have to dedicate to the lab like dealing with more employees, etc. If you really are thinking of having a surfacing lab, you are looking for problems just make sure you accept the challenge and that it will make you richer at the end otherwise let someone else have the headache and pay a few dollars more for a every job but have a less complicated life.
I know what i am talking about, guess where i was this (sunday) morning?

[FVCCHRIS]

I has read many valid reasons why and why not to have a surfacing lab. Having a lab is not just buying the machinery.
I know what i am talking about, guess where i was this (sunday) morning?

Swinging a hammer under a polisher?? Then doing laundry. :shiner:

[braheem24]

I know what i am talking about, guess where i was this (sunday) morning?

Speaking of guessing, you in Panama City, FL or actual Panama noriega canal place?

[MIOPE]

Speaking of guessing, you in Panama City, FL or actual Panama noriega canal place?

Panama City, Panama, where the canal is and where Noriega was because now he is in Jail in the U.S.A..
No matter where you are, having a lab is better than depending on others. I do not complain, fortunately we have enought jobs to be busy all day. I just wanted to say that is good to know that there are problems that comes with the job and that is something that needs to be mentioned.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Panama City, Panama, where the canal is and where Noriega was because now he is in Jail in the U.S.A..
No matter where you are, having a lab is better than depending on others. I do not complain, fortunately we have enought jobs to be busy all day. I just wanted to say that is good to know that there are problems that comes with the job and that is something that needs to be mentioned.

My late next door neighbor was raised in Panama when his dad worked for the locks. He spent 14 years there. Once, he told me, he and his friend made their own piragua (spelling?) and paddled from the Atlantic to the Pacific, then drove back with another friend. Took them a week or so.

[MIOPE]

To me Panama is paradise. We have our problems but who do not. There are a lot of tourist comming here. I wish i would have more time to enjoy what we have. The problem is that i enjoy my job so i do not make time to enjoy our country as i could. Rather than working i spend the day playing.

[LENNY]

Yes, but the system can do up to 40 pair in a shift, and it is priced at $127k, and this is for conventional surfacing. (with a backside coater, but no tools.)

I am sure you can get a used set up for a fraction of the cost. Do you have someone who will run it? If you dont FORGET IT!
I think the only way you can benefit from the onsite lab is 1 hour service. That is if your patients are ready to pay LC prices for 1 hour turn around!
Also if you think by selling 5 pairs of essilor progressive a day you will get a huge discount of them... you are wrong.
Be ready to pay almost the same price for SF blanks as you pay for uncuts on the CR and save maybe 20%-30% on the premium. Forget about premium coatings (espesialy Crizal type), just to make you feel better!:cheers:

[Jacqui]

Prediction:

I think the Dr. will find out it's not such a good idea and we'll see a surface set-up for sale on Ebay.

[fjpod]

Oh yee of little faith.

[Fezz]

I think it is a super-dee-duper idea!

No guts...no glory!

Just doo it!

Real men surface their own lenses!

I have a little sister that can generate a lens in her sleep better than you can fully awake!


:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:



{Maybe we should all encourage him so that when he finally realizes that he made a big mistake, we can swarm in like hunger, frenzied piranha, and scoop up his equipment for pennies on the dollar!

Ssshhhhh.....don't tell him our plan}

[shanbaum]

Having owned and operated a small chain of stores back in the late 70's - early 80's, both with and without a surface lab, I can say that after getting one, I would not have considered not having one. It gives you freedom, control and flexibility that you cannot obtain as a lab's customer. At least, I couldn't.

However, that was a long time ago, before the advent of the amazingly wide range of material and lens type options that we have today. My inventory cost was insignificant; today, it would be many times what it was then.

That was also before AR coatings became commonplace. Given that we were selling an upscale product, I would think that today, we would be including AR by default, which would mean that at least some of that "freedom, control, and flexibility" would be diminished, because so far as I know, there is no worthwhile AR gear that's suitable for a small lab.

On the other hand, the level of expertise required to operate the kinds of surfacing and finishing equipment available in 1977 was much higher than it is today.

I know that my former partner, to whom I sold my share of the business, continues to operate the surface lab, despite the changes in the market I've mentioned. He's in a location where it's possible to obtain blanks as needed, usually the same day, so the inventory may not be a big problem. He might be an interesting guy to talk to about this; if you'll PM me, I'll send you his email address. I don't think he surfs the 'board.

BTW, I forgot to mention, that I am not at all sure that having a surface lab is necessarily the path to obtaining lenses at the lowest possible cost. There are always labs out there willing to sell products near, or maybe even below their costs, and some of these will have economies of scale that you can't match. But having a surface lab, you should be able to obtain a reasonably low cost for products, the quality of which is largely under your control. Whether that produces good or bad outcomes ultimately depends on you.

[fjpod]

Well, I took the plunge. I wasn't gonna do it, but I went to visit a surface lab that was selling used equipment. I went to learn and observe. They offered me the equipment for a very good deal. I have almost everything I need.

Time will tell. I have the space. I have the help. I have the need.

[rbaker]

Having owned and operated a small chain of stores back in the late 70's - early 80's, both with and without a surface lab, I can say that after getting one, I would not have considered not having one. It gives you freedom, control and flexibility that you cannot obtain as a lab's customer. At least, I couldn't.

However, that was a long time ago, before the advent of the amazingly wide range of material and lens type options that we have today. My inventory cost was insignificant; today, it would be many times what it was then.

That was also before AR coatings became commonplace. Given that we were selling an upscale product, I would think that today, we would be including AR by default, which would mean that at least some of that "freedom, control, and flexibility" would be diminished, because so far as I know, there is no worthwhile AR gear that's suitable for a small lab.

On the other hand, the level of expertise required to operate the kinds of surfacing and finishing equipment available in 1977 was much higher than it is today.

I know that my former partner, to whom I sold my share of the business, continues to operate the surface lab, despite the changes in the market I've mentioned. He's in a location where it's possible to obtain blanks as needed, usually the same day, so the inventory may not be a big problem. He might be an interesting guy to talk to about this; if you'll PM me, I'll send you his email address. I don't think he surfs the 'board.

BTW, I forgot to mention, that I am not at all sure that having a surface lab is necessarily the path to obtaining lenses at the lowest possible cost. There are always labs out there willing to sell products near, or maybe even below their costs, and some of these will have economies of scale that you can't match. But having a surface lab, you should be able to obtain a reasonably low cost for products, the quality of which is largely under your control. Whether that produces good or bad outcomes ultimately depends on you.

I agree with this entirely if you are a real optician and not an eyeglass seller. You will not make much money with a surfacing lab but you will certainly enjoy the work.

[Johns]

There is one person that did not post to this thread, that I would love to hear his insight.

He's an OD, so he's in a similar situation as you are. I've been to his place, and he's got the works.

Hey SNOWMONSTER!!! What's your opinion? You're living it!

[Johns]

Well, I took the plunge. I wasn't gonna do it, but I went to visit a surface lab that was selling used equipment. I went to learn and observe. They offered me the equipment for a very good deal. I have almost everything I need.

Time will tell. I have the space. I have the help. I have the need.

Good for you! I give you credit for taking the plunge, and not standing by wondering, "what if..."

Good Luck!

[godin33]

We've done pretty much exactly what you're looking into......
10-20 pairs a day........backside SR coat.....
Call Alan at Optek. He set us up with a great little lab, inexpensive.....
Covers about 90% of the jobs we do.......and the things we cant do, we outsource to another lab.
Training was great, mind you I had lab experience.
O2 software is easy to use and inexpensive as well!
I say go for it.........faster turn around time too!

[Johns]

Prediction:

I think the Dr. will find out it's not such a good idea and we'll see a surface set-up for sale on Ebay.

No...I don't think so. It's not like he was walking by an auction and got a great deal on it (even if he did). He know's what goes into this, and even if it's bumpy for awhile, I'm sure it will work out (or he'll make it work out) in the end.

I wish him all the success!:cheers::cheers:

[fjpod]

Let me put it this way. when I add up the cost of the equipment, tools, installation, basic consumables, etc., I will have spent only 25% of what I spent five years back to get a new Optronics 7E system alone.

Part of me did it because I sometimes feel held hostage by the big brand lens makers. I'm doing it to try to improve my bottom line and to save the patient some cash as well.

Hey look If I bought a new car or boat, the money would be gone. Now I can at least make some of it back.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Let me put it this way. when I add up the cost of the equipment, tools, installation, basic consumables, etc., I will have spent only 25% of what I spent five years back to get a new Optronics 7E system alone.

Part of me did it because I sometimes feel held hostage by the big brand lens makers. I'm doing it to try to improve my bottom line and to save the patient some cash as well.

Hey look If I bought a new car or boat, the money would be gone. Now I can at least make some of it back.

Enable your PMs and some of us can send you some info on some manufacturers to open accounts with.

[fjpod]

Will do.

[optixbil]

Having been in the wholesale and retail business for the last 33 years, I feel I can add something here. First, the money is in retail. Second, if you don't hire a good lab manager who knows how to run a lab, you will become the lab manager. You can learn it as you go through trial and error because I'm sure you're smart enough. Don't think you're going to make one of your "opticians" a surface lab manager. No matter what the equipment salesman tells you, it takes years. The bottom line is, what is it in your life that you're doing right now that you will stop doing to be a lab manager? Golf? Nights out with the wife? Saturdays at the beach? You're talking about taking on a new business here, one that you don't really understand yet, and I don't know of any businesses that are successful and run themselves. There are only 24 hours in a day and you can't buy more.

Bill Belanger
Eyeris

[fjpod]

I hear ya. Luckily, I have a few good partners. Time will tell.