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Thread: Good yogic exercises for weak eye sights

  1. #26
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    Redhot Jumper -14.00 D passes drivers exxam without glasses........

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post

    She went from -14 diopters to passing her drivers license exam at the end of his 7 week course. Normally taking an average of most students with all levels of blurr, people get to good vision(at least passing the drivers license exam or reading without glasses)

    I better never hit the road in Arizona out of fear that I might get hit by some natuarlly cured high myopes that pass the drivers license exam without their glasses. :D

  2. #27
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    Passing the exam and having 20/40 or better are two different things. They shouldn't be, but they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    I was wondering why I was getting hits from this website.

    Hey Mr. Ulleann that was uncalled for :finger: :bbg:

    Your in Salt Lake? You should come to one of my free introductory classes to find out more of what I do before you compare it to eye exercises(eye pushups, eye aerobics, eye yoga)...
    First of all, you mis-spelled my name. Perhaps some OTC +1.00's might help?

    Second, while I appreciate the offer - no thanks. I've done enough research over the years, and had a number of others just as yourself (Anyone remember the "See Clearly Method" hawked on the radio about ten years ago - same dish.) making claims that I feel to be dangerous and extremely misleading to an unaware public. And yes, I've looked over your website extensively and the direct claims you make - as well as the disclaimers. Let's just say I wasn't thrilled by the time I was done...but that was my own experience.

    I would like to remind you of a simple truth which is you can no sooner cure advanced stage cancer or remove a brain tumor than you can "cure" refractive error using 'wishful thinking' or 're-training' the body to be cancer or tumor proof. It's simply bad medicine, dangerous and will result in some horrible outcomes.

    May I suggest that if you truly wish to excel at your chosen profession, that you attend a good solid four years of human biological sciences at a local university, (probably the U and not the Y, as the U is a much more medically oriented facility) - then follow that up with a full four year optometry program - follow that with a year or two residency, probably in a Vision Therapy setting, and finally a good eight years of med school with a strong and solid emphasis on ophthalmology and surgical technique?

    Then my good man, I do believe you would be far far better poised to actually understand the claims you are making, and how your current treatment methods relate to known ophthalmic medicine and treatment (both western and eastern). Perhaps too - you will be far better equipped to actually help people, instead of what is occurring now. Which is, I believe, what you really want to do.

    :p:shiner::cheers:

  4. #29
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    Oh that's how the quote works.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner05 View Post
    Holy crap, with that name, I really was hoping that this was just a troll. Then I looked up ole Mr. Quacky and he does exist. Wow.
    Yeah it's a tough name to be born with but it makes a person tougher and shows us the shallow people.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner05 View Post
    Now, you mentioned that moving your eyes regenerates them... What the hell is being regenerated??????
    Blurry vision habits and Artificial corrections squelch natural eye movement and connection. It also squeltches normal brain activity and connection. Eye movement and centralization reconnect the vision system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpod View Post
    Passing the exam and having 20/40 or better are two different things. They shouldn't be, but they are.
    I agree. There is also a huge difference between a person who has Unaided 20/20 eyesight and a person who has corrected 20/20 eyesight. People who get into the -8 and above area are almost hazzardous. The size of the image on their retina is very small. Their eye movement and brain speed are very squelched. Their spacial awareness is very warped. There needs to be other factors that need to be measured along with general acuity.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    I agree. There is also a huge difference between a person who has Unaided 20/20 eyesight and a person who has corrected 20/20 eyesight. People who get into the -8 and above area are almost hazzardous. The size of the image on their retina is very small. Their eye movement and brain speed are very squelched. Their spacial awareness is very warped. There needs to be other factors that need to be measured along with general acuity.
    Where do you get the information to make these statements? The visual acuity of a person corrected to 20/20 is just as good as one that needs no correction. A -8.00 myope corrected to 20/20 is not a hazard. They have normal peripheral vision, even in spectacles. If you don't believe me, you should do a visual field analysis on one and see for yourself. Peripheral vision is not 20/20 anyway. People with BVA of 20/200 centrally can still have perfect peripheral vision.

    A -14.00 uncorrected myope that thinks they can see 20/40 is a hazard.

    Spatial awareness and depth perception are important, but the brain makes adaptations to changes in environment quite successfully. People who have changes in their spectacle Rx are quite capable of making involuntary compensations. Contrast sensitivity is another visual measurement that is import...but how does all this relate to teaching people eye movement exercises, blinking, and relaxation techniques to ameliorate myopia and presbyopia? The truth is it doesn't.

  7. #32
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Whoa...wait a tick. You're saying that I can learn a behavior that will physically disconnect my eyeball from the optic nerve??? Or did I miss something big there? If you're referring to a slower development of the optical system if a patient is in an amblyopic state...this is not a condition that most of the population of the world exhibits. Can you clarify?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    First of all, you mis-spelled my name. Perhaps some OTC +1.00's might help?
    Oh, my appologies. I need to practice the good vision habits better on user names.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    (Anyone remember the "See Clearly Method" hawked on the radio about ten years ago - same dish.) making claims that I feel to be dangerous and extremely misleading to an unaware public.
    The "See Clearly Method" is a typical infomercial scheme. It teaches Eye Exercises(eye pushups, eye yoga, eye aerobics). When Bates had all his success, people tried to copy what he was doing and market it. They did not ask him personaly and the best they could come up with was Eye Exercises. It plays on people's innate feelings that glasses and contacts do harm and are restrictive. I'm glad that people put them to task and their foundation was shown for the false system it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I've looked over your website extensively and the direct claims you make - as well as the disclaimers. Let's just say I wasn't thrilled by the time I was done...but that was my own experience..
    I appreciate you taking the time. I would like to get more thoughts on this. Perhaps at a later time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I would like to remind you of a simple truth which is you can no sooner cure advanced stage cancer or remove a brain tumor than you can "cure" refractive error using 'wishful thinking' or 're-training' the body to be cancer or tumor proof. It's simply bad medicine, dangerous and will result in some horrible outcomes...
    Right now that is theory and belief to me. I work with a lady who helps people's bodies overcome advanced cancers, diabetes, and other diseases 10 hours a day. She finds the resources the bodies need and the bodies cure themselves. I have overcome lymph disease myself which was one of the major factors in my original blurry vision.

    The fact is that my students are getting regular reduced prescriptions from their optomotrists. They wouldn't be able to do this if their vision wasn't improving. My optometrist has me come in every once in a while to help his patients with 20/40 blurr. I can usually teach them what to do to bring their vision back to 20/20 within a few minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    May I suggest that if you truly wish to excel at your chosen profession, that you attend a good solid four years of human biological sciences at a local university, (probably the U and not the Y, as the U is a much more medically oriented facility) - then follow that up with a full four year optometry program - follow that with a year or two residency, probably in a Vision Therapy setting, and finally a good eight years of med school with a strong and solid emphasis on ophthalmology and surgical technique?
    Thank you for the suggestion. I have considered going into Optometry or Chiropractic or Registered Nurse. I am very busy teaching people how to see and reduce their prescriptions right now. I am also training under my naturopath. I do take opportunities to shadow under my Optometrist. I also help him measure glasses for his service projects to third world countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Perhaps too - you will be far better equipped to actually help people, instead of what is occurring now. Which is, I believe, what you really want to do.
    Oh I'm doing pretty well right now. My students are very happy with their success http://bit.ly/2FyWjZ and amazing release of tension and strain. I love when they get amazing clear flashes in a class. I also love when they call to tell me they have reduced their prescription again.

    Thank you very much for the intelligent conversation.

  9. #34
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Wow. Have you considered writing papers for any of the international journals or at the least getting in and speaking for the AOA and the like? Even Clive and the rest of the UOA would be very interested to hear of your breakthrough. Again - good luck.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    Yes there is a lot of quackery, and charlotinism out there, and there is a lot of stone age thinking in the field medicine as well.
    Yes, we see where you're coming from. Thanks for being honest.

  11. #36
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    This is guaranteed?!?!?!? :

    " Reduced occurrences of floaters and eye diseases: like cataracts, macular degeneration, etc."

  12. #37
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    Fraud alert

    Quote Originally Posted by VictorBush View Post

    1. Palming: - To rest and relax your eyes, sit comfortably in front of a table, resting your elbows on a stack of cushions high enough to bring your palms easily to your eyes without stooping forward or looking up.

    2. Swinging: - Relax and keep the eyes mobile. Stand up and focus on a distant point, swaying gently from side to side. Repeat 100 times daily, blinking as you sway. Blinking cleans and lubricates the eyes, which is especially important if you spend a lot of time in front of a computer.

    3. Remember to keep your gaze at shoulder level. You may raise your fingers or stick two ballpoint pens on your shoulders to guide you. Place them in a convenient way so that you are able to clearly see them when you move your eyes left and right.

    4. Look as far as possible and inhale then look down as far as possible and exhale. Blink your eyes more than dozen times. Do the same procedure by turning to your left and right then diagonally up to left, down to right, up to right and down to left followed by rapid blinking.
    No thanks.

    Fraud.
    Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. - Richard P. Feynman

    Experience is the hardest teacher. She gives the test before the lesson.



  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Wow. Have you considered writing papers for any of the international journals or at the least getting in and speaking for the AOA and the like? Even Clive and the rest of the UOA would be very interested to hear of your breakthrough. Again - good luck.
    I've been building up my writting ability in this area with internet and social media work, by writting for Yahoo Answers, and in responding to inquiries like those on this board. Eventually I'll be building up to that. I am currently working on teaching at desk and cubicle communities like Novell, Phone Centers, and internet companies. These stressfull environments encourage blurry vision habits.

    My optometrist is a member of Optometric associations and keeps me up to date. I'm afraid I would get the same response from Optometric Associations as I have gotten on this thread and as many other Natural Eyesight Improvement Teachers have gotten from Optometry in general.

    It's not my breakthrough. It's been known since the early 1900's. It's just been blindly opposed, mistaught, and misrepresented. Great NEI teachers have been improving their education methods so that students get a fuller grasp much quicker and therefore return to Natural Perfect Eyesight much quicker and easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Whoa...wait a tick. You're saying that I can learn a behavior that will physically disconnect my eyeball from the optic nerve??? Or did I miss something big there? If you're referring to a slower development of the optical system if a patient is in an amblyopic state...this is not a condition that most of the population of the world exhibits. Can you clarify?
    No not physically disconnect eyeballs from optic nerves.

    Blurry vision habits put heavy strain and tension on the eyeballs. The muscles in a way fight against each other and also squeeze the eyeball out of shape: longer for nearsights, warped cornea lining up with the rectus muscles for astigmatism. This tension on the eyeball ruduces the circulation and reduces the sensitivity and transmission of the retina.

    Blurry vision habits also reduce the brains sensitivity to the signal from the eyes and reduces the brains ability to absorb and recognize that signal. In major forms of staring people's brains completely block the signal from their eyes. Their eyelids are open and the person literally sees nothing for brief moments. We know there is a lot of information sluffed off and filtered in the seeing process but people with blurry vision habits block and sluff off a lot more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OHPNTZ View Post
    This is guaranteed?!?!?!? :

    " Reduced occurrences of floaters and eye diseases: like cataracts, macular degeneration, etc."
    I don't guarantee anything except the quality of the information and the education and the support. My students educate themselves and take responsibility for their own health. http://bit.ly/8OqWDL

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    Robert Martellaro

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Martellaro View Post
    No thanks.

    Fraud.
    Yes Robert Martellaro I've already established that

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    Points 1 and 2 above are nice self healing activites but will have little effect without knowing the blurry vision habits to avoid and the clear vision behaviors to reintegrate.

    Points 3 and 4 are eye exercises which have very little to do with Natural Perfect Eyesight and will often exasterbate the causes of blurry vision.
    You would do yourself a favor by familiarizing yourself with the conversation before commenting.

  17. #42
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    i keep waiting for this guy to admit this was all an asinine joke.... he isnt admitting it.

    he is right up there with holistics and noetic science.

    know any faith healers? can you correct eye sight through prayer too?

    seems like that would be big business in utah.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    I've been building up my writting ability in this area with internet and social media work, by writting for Yahoo Answers, and in responding to inquiries like those on this board. Eventually I'll be building up to that. I am currently working on teaching at desk and cubicle communities like Novell, Phone Centers, and internet companies. These stressfull environments encourage blurry vision habits.

    My optometrist is a member of Optometric associations and keeps me up to date. I'm afraid I would get the same response from Optometric Associations as I have gotten on this thread and as many other Natural Eyesight Improvement Teachers have gotten from Optometry in general.

    It's not my breakthrough. It's been known since the early 1900's. It's just been blindly opposed, mistaught, and misrepresented. Great NEI teachers have been improving their education methods so that students get a fuller grasp much quicker and therefore return to Natural Perfect Eyesight much quicker and easier.
    I would be interested to know which optometric associations your optometrist is involved with, and what his peers have to add to the subject. I am sorry, but I simply cannot believe that if there was any honest medical proof to back up the claims made by this method, that we would not all be much more aware of it's validity. Unfortunately, when you mis-educate the general public through avenues such as Yahoo Answers etc., regarding the importance of involving a trained medical professional in their comprehensive ocular health care, it is simply dangerous. That's potentially a nasty lawsuit I'd not wish to face down if I were in your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    No not physically disconnect eyeballs from optic nerves.

    Blurry vision habits put heavy strain and tension on the eyeballs. The muscles in a way fight against each other and also squeeze the eyeball out of shape: longer for nearsights, warped cornea lining up with the rectus muscles for astigmatism. This tension on the eyeball ruduces the circulation and reduces the sensitivity and transmission of the retina.

    Blurry vision habits also reduce the brains sensitivity to the signal from the eyes and reduces the brains ability to absorb and recognize that signal. In major forms of staring people's brains completely block the signal from their eyes. Their eyelids are open and the person literally sees nothing for brief moments. We know there is a lot of information sluffed off and filtered in the seeing process but people with blurry vision habits block and sluff off a lot more.
    I'm sorry - you lost me here. You're saying there are muscles in the eye that are the root cause for decreased/increased axial lengths, corneal astigmatism, and choroidal blood flow? And further that the brain is solely responsible for sensitivity to retinal stimuli and that this relationship is based on body stress levels alone? Very confused here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I'm sorry - you lost me here. You're saying there are muscles in the eye that are the root cause for decreased/increased axial lengths, corneal astigmatism, and choroidal blood flow? And further that the brain is solely responsible for sensitivity to retinal stimuli and that this relationship is based on body stress levels alone? Very confused here...
    Believe it or not the rectus muscles have been implicated in the pathogenesis of refractive error by some researchers, but as you know none of those many theories even remotely comes close to a definitive answer.

  20. #45
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    That others have looked into the musculature and even adnexa as playing a role in overall visual difficulties is nothing new to be sure. However, I fail to see the connection of honest medical research and documentation, and these "See Clearly Methods". Again, I would strongly encourage any of these practitioners to get out there - get published - start presenting to the medical world at large. If the concepts presented are sound, they will stand on their own merit. If not.....well....

  21. #46
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    Redhot Jumper We seen it before...............................

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  22. #47
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    Redhot Jumper Here some more of it...................

    The "patient" applied the device to the eyes shutting out all light. The handle on the side of the device allows the gaskets to rotate slightly to massage the eyelids. In theory, the device was supposed to relax the eyes thereby eliminating all vision problems. The device had no effect on vision problems.
    This device is one of many which sought to cash in on the theory promoted by William Horatio Bates, M.D. who published The Cure of Imperfect Eyesight by Treatment Without Glasses in 1920. Dr. Bates wrongly suggested that relaxation would cure vision problems. Today, many of his followers have altered his theory by suggesting that eye exercise will cure vision problems (and there is a kernel of truth in this for eye exercise is recommended for conditions like lazy eye and crossed eyes). In mystical ways, Bates followers suggest practicing how and where to focus, rotating eyes from left to right and back again to increase peripheral vision and more. For almost all vision problems, eye exercise has no effect. Claims that the Bates theory and exercise may 'eliminate the need for glasses and contacts' are false.
    These claims are made today by sellers of pinhole eyeglasses and expensive consultants who lead vision therapy 'classes.' "It is difficult to understand the widespread popularity of the Bates System unless one considers that its followers make up what is essentially a cult. Its practitioners are faith healers who appeal to the gullible, the neurotic, the highly emotional, and the psychosomatic…. ‘Perfect sight without glasses’ is an empty promise," say Russell S. Worrall, O.D. and Jacob Nevyas, Ph.D. (cited by George Nava True II). True relates
    "In 1956, Dr. Philip Pollack, a Manhattan optometrist, wrote The Truth About Eye Exercises which exposed the flaws in the Bates System. Alas, Pollack’s book was soon forgotten while the Bates System lives on."
    See Can Eye Exercises Improve Vision? by George Nava True II.
    Urbane Barrett, owner of the Natural Eyesight Institute, was convicted of mail fraud in 1937 - a year before the U. S. Food and Drug Administration was authorized to regulate medical devices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I would be interested to know which optometric associations your optometrist is involved with, and what his peers have to add to the subject. I am sorry, but I simply cannot believe that if there was any honest medical proof to back up the claims made by this method, that we would not all be much more aware of it's validity..
    No evidence contrary to common Optometric practice is allowed yet. Optometry is only trained in optics. They don't have the capacity to see behavior and the brain behind the eyes yet. It is the same as the response on this thread. "you are eye exercise quackery" "you are conning people" "you are The See Clearly Method" all flat out rejection and vitreol with no effort to read or to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Unfortunately, when you mis-educate the general public through avenues such as Yahoo Answers etc., regarding the importance of involving a trained medical professional in their comprehensive ocular health care, it is simply dangerous. That's potentially a nasty lawsuit I'd not wish to face down if I were in your position.
    I don't tell people to avoid their eye doctor. They need to go to their eye doctor to get reduced prescriptions to meet driving and work requirements and for supervision. They also need to go to their eye doctor if they have any disease, pathologies, or accidents of the eyes. I don't do anything medical. I only teach people about how to use the eyes. When we use their eyes, mind, and body together correctly our blur gets better instead of worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    I'm sorry - you lost me here. You're saying there are muscles in the eye that are the root cause for decreased/increased axial lengths, corneal astigmatism, and choroidal blood flow? And further that the brain is solely responsible for sensitivity to retinal stimuli and that this relationship is based on body stress levels alone? Very confused here...
    Natural Eyesight Improvement Teachers believe that the the oblique muscles that wrap around the eyeball like a belt and keep our eyeballs horizontal to a degree also have the ability to squeeze the eyeball longer.

    If the top and bottom rectus muscles pull tighter on the eyeball than the horizontal muscles we get a vertical astigmatism on the cornea. Visa versa with the horizontal muscles and axis.

    The amount of information that gets to the brain can change based upon its capacity and receptivity and on how well it uses the eyes.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    No evidence contrary to common Optometric practice is allowed yet. Optometry is only trained in optics. They don't have the capacity to see behavior and the brain behind the eyes yet. It is the same as the response on this thread. "you are eye exercise quackery" "you are conning people" "you are The See Clearly Method" all flat out rejection and vitreol with no effort to read or to understand.


    .
    You are quite incorrect, my friend. You should study optometry school curriculua. Optometry IS the repository of behavioral visual functioning. Vast amounts of behavioral visual research occurs there. Optometrists invented the idea of using exercises to "improve" the eyes.

    We would like nothing more than for what you claim to be true...but it has been proven not to be the case. Scientific research has proven that the things you "teach" do not cure myopia (beyond perhaps .5 diopters, and it is not permanent), or presbyopia. Vision therapy, if I may use the term loosely, ameliorates amblyopia, perhaps strabismus, convergence insufficiency and the like.

    I wish you would stop recommending palming as it has been known to cause reduced blood flow to the optic nerve head at the level of the lamina cribrosa, and can cause optic nerve "snuff-out". I doubt if you will find this information on Google.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalEyes View Post
    No evidence contrary to common Optometric practice is allowed yet. Optometry is only trained in optics. They don't have the capacity to see behavior and the brain behind the eyes yet...
    Yikes. That's about as loaded a comment as stating an auto mechanic doesn't fix cars because they're only trained to look at engines in picture books. Or perhaps that yaks aren't really hairy or smelly.

    Um, again, let me very strongly, forcefully, and with great impetus implore you to seek out proper and thorough medical training in the fields you seem to show such vitriol towards. We all understand that you get a great deal of happiness from your desire to help people see better. We get that. But what you're doing isn't helping. And sadly - neither is your optometrist friend. Does he know Clive as well?

    I'd very much like a chance to talk with him at length during the next UOA congress in June. Will he be there? Feel free to PM with his contact information. Perhaps he can shed further light on his medical basis for encouraging this type of activity. I would be very happy to report back with any enlightenment I can provide then as well. I assume your doctor is a member of the UOA and AOA as you made some mention of earlier?

    Thanks :cheers:

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