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Thread: Stopping Offenders while costing nothing ! This method will work !

  1. #1
    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Stopping Offenders while costing nothing ! This method will work !

    Why should you pay your College again this year ?

    Is Great Glasses still operating ? Didn't they lose their last appeal ? Are there any Registered Opticians on the premises or in any of the stores ? are there any Optometrists, MD's or Ophthalmologists there to do the eye tests ? Or is he prescribing without a license ? What do you think ?

    Has the court system protected you or the citizens of Ontario ?

    Has the Attorney General's office put an end to this mess ?

    Has the Optometry College upheld their mandate to the public or the optometrists they govern ?

    Has Ministry of Health done anything about it ? Or has the Ministry of Health squandered millions of dollars and made a farce ? Did MOH go after legal law abiding opticians ? Or did MOH put their money where their mouth is and go after the biggest refracting OFFENDER ?

    Did the Opticians Association ever speak out with their "Official Voice of Opticians " ?

    Who does Opticians Association of Canada Support in their advertising ? Read their classifieds in their magazine .

    Is the official video and audio for all of you ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZGWQauQOAQ

    What does the Optometrists Association do for your money ?

    Are you willing to spend more money on your present licensing model ? Or is it time to put your foot down ?

    Have any of you Optometrists read the Charter of Human Rights and the piece about Freedom of Association ?


    Does MCSS still reimburse you based on a 30 year old price list while millions are squandered on e-health ?

    Have your license fees risen or remained static like the MCSS price list ? Why would you accept MCSS pricing when MOH rejects your fees and de-insures you ?

    Why are you going to renew your license after 7 or 8 years of ineffective legal battles ?

    Don't you think it is time you had a year off and holiday from license fees and association fees ?

    Isn't it time to send a clear message ?

    Opticians , should you not be sending a CLEAR message to the President of CLEAR ? Your money and web pages support CLEAR . Does CLEAR support You ?


    Who is the biggest internet seller ? Who is the board of Directors ?

    So ? Why are you sending in your fees ? What has your College , Association , Minister of Health , Court system or Attorney General done to earn your fees ?

    Will the Minister of Health step up to the plate ? Have our self-governing bodies exhausted all options ? Have we done our jobs ? Are we entitled to expect our laws to be upheld ?

    Has MOH and HPRAC been of assistance or have they inundated us with more useless paperwork and more "eyecare reviews" ad nauseum ?

    Think carefully before you send in your license & association fees this year . WE have paid the legal bills to pursue the offenders but he is still operating . Now it is time for us to strike and get the legal systems attention starting with our Colleges , our silent associations, our Minister of Health and the Legal people . Cut off their money supply and strike them with the embarrassment we feel !

    Continue business as usual , but cut your expenses and grab the attention of the MPs, MPPs , Minister of Health, newspapers etc. It's time they did their jobs too . We have done ours !

    School teachers , autoworkers, rail workers , airlines , they all use the strike process when everthing else fails . We are no different . In my opinion, this is the last option open to us .

    Shall we spend millions more or shall we spend nothing but get the job done ? The MOH has just been through one huge embarassment , will they want one more ? Do they have a surplus of Ministers to take over if another head rolls ?

    Saying "NO" and spending nothing will get the job done . One unified effort will get this job done , by spending nothing .

  2. #2
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    You have my attention.
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    I don't know for ontario ... but in Quebec .. the optometrist association is picking the cotisation directly on my provincial healt plan payment, 10% of the payment until they get their 1400.00 $ !!

    Can't really do nothing myself for you .. but am 100% with you on this GG case ...

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    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    We have supported our Colleges through this thing for almost 8 years now and still there is no conclusion . We need to force the MPs, MPPs, Minister of Health and Attorney General to get this thing solved . The best way to get their attention is to strike . The only way for optometrists and opticians to strike is to STOP paying our Associations and STOP paying our license fees to the Colleges AS well as STOP accepting MCSS insurance . We still go to work though , so it costs us nothing .


    We need to embarasss MOH . They have already made heads roll and fired Caplan over the E-Health uncontrolled spending . We need to expose spending problems with the Colleges and stop paying them . Cut off their revenue supply . The new Minister of Health will want to solve these problems b4 they get out of her control .

    By not acceptng MCSS clients her Ministry will be embarassed from the Dr and Optician end and the MCSS clients will start screaming at her . Now the MCSS 30 YEAR OLD price list can embarass her in the newspapers . It's time that price list came back to bite them in the *** .

    The largest internet seller in Canada has a board of directors that is quite visible because that company is publicly traded . Our Colleges would tell us that selling and dispensing contact lenses and eyeglasses over the internet is illegal . Yet is there an MP is on the board of Directors ?

    Stop paying the associations . The Provincial Opticians associations support the OAC ( Opticians Association of Canada ) but who does the OAC support ? Take a look in their VISION magazine . Look at the classifieds and find 4 ads they are running for an offender. The College gave an interest free , extended payment plan to this guy after he pleaded "no contest" to all of the PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT charges . Then he made a farce of our College by appealing ????? How do you appeal something after pleading "No Contest " ? That was just one more example of bargaining in bad faith .. but really what could anyone have expected from a person that even College of Opticians refers to as "disgraceful, dishonourable & unprofessional" And now OAC is supporting this person by letting him use their resources . Read about this under the discipline section : http://www.coptont.org/DISCIPLINE/discipline.asp

    The Associations tell us that they are our voice , but that is a lie . Actions speak louder than words . Their actions are supporting an offender . Why would you continue to pay an organization that supports offenders ? When did you last hear either OAC or Provincial Associations speak out ?

    Hypothetically & academically speaking, just suppose that some or one of your elected officials held shares in certain publicly traded companies that make exam equipment . Who uses this exam equipment ? Any particular offenders using it ? Now if refraction was legal for opticians then they would need exam equipment . What would happen to these shares if opticians won refraction rights ? Now if your job was to bring a certain offender to task would it be in your best interest to have the offender win or lose if you were holding shares in the exam equipment company ?


    In my opinion, All we have to do is stop paying the Colleges and the Associations , expose overspending, embarassments and insults to us . The rest will take care of it self in the aftermath of more heads rolling .
    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 12-13-2009 at 09:29 PM.

  5. #5
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    I'm with you but I need more. Please elaborate as much as possible and share your research and observations.
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    actually the best way to get the ministry's attention would be to stop accepting OHIP and MCSS for payment!

  7. #7
    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedema View Post
    actually the best way to get the ministry's attention would be to stop accepting OHIP and MCSS for payment!
    IN MY OPINION
    In my opinion, We also need to change our tune on the Public Secretariats & Colleges . send them all a letter , right across Canada and tell them we will no longer accept this treatment from them . If they are not going to defend us properly, and properly represent us with people who can think and use their voice then we put them on notice for accountability . No more hiding expense and taking trips on us . No more fillling our boards up with nose pickers .

    Receipts must be saved and shown or there is no reimbursement. The books must be open to all members . No more Associations asking for approval of the financial statements without first showing and distributing the financial statements .

    In my opinion , WE need to go after the Public Secretariat to remove some non-producing , non caring public members . Some of those people just shouldn't be there taking up valuable chair space . Tim Hortons has warm chairs and serves tea and biscuits too . The Public Secretariat could reposition these some people , perhaps even closer to home . They have positions available on several Boards of Retirement Homes for the Aged . Match them up to their next position in life . Maybe they will now care about something that is going to matter to them .

    We need people on our boards who care and have a vision . We do not need these seats taken just for the sake of filling them up with swing voters. WE need brains on these boards not retirement home prospects .

    Running expenses through other organizations that are themselves funded by the Colleges is WRONG , this double dipping has to stop !

    Minutes of the meetings must be ACCURATE and distributed NO LATER than the next meeting .

    We all have to get together and put an end to this nonsense ! Stop paying the Colleges and bring them back into line and get this MOH lunacy on the right track . In the process we also hit the internet sellers and straighten out the GG affair by getting it closed out with NO more proposals to him and no more bargaining and negotiating with him . Put him in jail then he can try bargaining . Go after the landlords . Most commercial leases have a clause that reads " premises can not be used for illegal and unlawful purposes ...." . Sue the landlords . Every one of them . Let the landlords put their pressure on too . They can start working for us instead of against us .

    Why is he not in jail now ? Your College can not or will not answer this.

    Every Optician and Optometrist in North America should send a registered letter to the Attorney General in this case and ask that question . The Attorney General is an MPP as well as the Attorney General . the contact info is here : http://www.chrisbentley.onmpp.ca/Contact.aspx .


    And if you are really ambitious every Optometrist and Optician in NOrth America might also want to ask the same questions of the Minister of Health who also happens to be in the same neck of the woods . The address can be had here http://www.debmatthews.ca/contacttmp.aspx

    Individual , Registered letters would be best . they cost money to send which indicates your level of interest , and they take up space and get in their face . Email is invisible in an office and is easily filtered out as spam . A post office delivering thousands of pieces of mail to one address gets attention, generates chatter and gossip . It's in their way and in their face .

    If you are really , really passionate , do the same with your Associaitons .

    By the way , when was the last time any of your Associations had an action plan ?
    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 12-14-2009 at 07:34 AM.

  8. #8
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    Ali Khan has an action plan.

    http://eyecaresociety.ca/index.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    Ali Khan has an action plan.

    http://eyecaresociety.ca/index.html
    well this cheapo optometrist certainly likes the fee structure!:cheers:

  10. #10
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    He's the only potential leader I've seen in this field
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    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    He's the only potential leader I've seen in this field
    What is his plan ?

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    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    It appears his plan is to call out all the corruption in the COO, improve training standards and protect the public while promoting the professions.

    I've spoken with him and I feel that he is the real deal. Unlike some of the self-promoters currently running the show.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLord View Post
    Ali Khan has an action plan.

    http://eyecaresociety.ca/index.html
    The Khan Group's plan and initiative looks legitimate and sound on paper. However, in my opinion, they have been around for almost 4 years so far without forcing any proposed changes.

    They are simply the opposition or Liberal party of Opticians. During College meetings and business hours, they wear that hat. After hours, they all shake hands, then go for dinner and a beer.

    They have their own hidden agenda and are from trustworthy. I know dozens of people in the industry close to them and they don't even trust them.

    They love to stir the s#@! pot and be pests, but nothing will change. If they were so dedicated to our profession, they would have only one main purpose, goal or role. So why do they have two???

  14. #14
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    I am open to the possibility that Ali Khan is a crook. If someone can show me the evidence, I will appreciate it. So far I haven't seen any. So far he seems like a stand up guy and I like the fact he is opposing the College. So far he seems like a smart, ambitious businessman and optician.
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    If all of you as Ontario Opticians ran and won a seat on your College you could create change from within. Why aren't you doing that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by optical maven View Post
    If all of you as Ontario Opticians ran and won a seat on your College you could create change from within. Why aren't you doing that?
    For me its a lack of time; and it deserves dedication. The moron that was running at that time said all the right things on a few occasions to me in person. I voted for him.

    He won his seat, drank their Kool-Aid, turned into an optical politician and the rest is history.

    Absolutely ineffective. What else can I say?

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    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemanflying View Post
    For me its a lack of time; and it deserves dedication. The moron that was running at that time said all the right things on a few occasions to me in person. I voted for him.

    He won his seat, drank their Kool-Aid, turned into an optical politician and the rest is history.

    Absolutely ineffective. What else can I say?

    Join in and attend the meetings long enough to at least make a difference turning this around.
    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 12-19-2009 at 10:33 AM.

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    Redhot Jumper this is the last option open to us ..................

    School teachers , autoworkers, rail workers , airlines , they all use the strike process when everthing else fails . We are no different . In my opinion, this is the last option open to us .

    ..................a bad option when a strike is not effective. Opticians on strike wil just promote all the illegal sellers and boost their business.

  19. #19
    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Ryser View Post
    ..................a bad option when a strike is not effective. Opticians on strike wil just promote all the illegal sellers and boost their business.
    Chris :

    In my opinion:

    We strike against the Colleges & Associations by refusing to pay them for non-performance of their stated duties . We stay open and in business though. Why should we lose revenue ? We want the Colleges to lose money so they know what it feels like to be us feeding them, as they double dip through other organizations that we also fund .

    We cut off the College's revenue sources until they smarten up and the MOH smartens up and changes the legislation to deal with internet sellers and G G fiascos .

    We get their attention and embarass the s---t out of them .

    We create enough PR to make heads roll . Just like the E-health spending fiasco .

    What's it matter if we lose another Health Minister and a Registrar or two and some ineffective associatons along the way ? If we lost all the Provincial Registrars and had to replace them would it be worse than the results we are seeing now ? Would you fire your mechanic if after 8 years she could not fix your car ?


    Is the MOH minister an MPP ? Is the Attorney General an MPP ?

    Who are the internet sellers ? Are we fighting our own government ?

    Have you looked at the conflicts inherent in the structure of many optical organizations ?

    We start by cutting off their revenue . We stop enabling them . We strike against them by cutting off their revenues , not ours . We do not strike against our customers . We strike against our Associatons and Colleges . We cut their revenue , not ours .

    We bring attention upon the Public Secretariat to ship non producers and non-contributors to a warm seat in Tim Hortons where they can eat all the tea biscuits they want on their own nickel as they wait for senior citizen status to change into rigor mortis with their swing vote hand frozen in the air.

    Chris , you strike against all the things that are wrong on top .

    We stay open and in business though . That's the part that makes it work .

    Customers don't care about you and if you are legal or not . If they did, then illegal competitors would not survive. It is the people who take our money for licensing under false pretenses that care . We put their pay check and jobs on the line . Striking means striking agasinst them and not paying them until they really do support us and protect the public and become the advocacy group they claim to be . This applies to optometrists as well as opticians .

    In my humble opinion, we don't need the Public Secretariat to fill our College Council just because some senior applied . They should have real qualifications and they should know and care about what is going on in that boardroom . They should know where the money is being spent and have the guts and balls to stand up and think . Just having the ability to raise ones hand in the air in unison is not a qualification that should earn glowing reports for re-appointment.

    We don't need a MOH minister who insults us with a turn of the century MCSS price list . We strike against that and stop accepting it and turn their own clients into to complaints against the Minister responsible.

    We don't need any more rules , regulations ,useless lip service HPRAC studies ad nauseum. We need simple rules that are legally enforceable .

    Striking does not mean cutting off our customers or our revenue . On the contrary , it increases our revenue by reducing our overheads . We cut the non-producers revenue and make heads roll until they lose their jobs . Or smarten up , whichever somes first .

    Look at our legal bills , our "external relations" expenses, our "communications expenses" , look at the lack of the results ...we strike against that .

    We put their heads ,jobs, and revenue on the line. Not ours.

    If only 50 percent of the opticians in Ontario quit paying them , then we cut off 1 million dollars . What could they do about it ? They can't even stop one single optician after 1.6 million invested in so called "lawyer talent " after 8 years .

    A paralegal could do better ! Imagine what would happen if we had a pair of paralegals !!! LOL

    Our College does not even have the balls to revoke his license .

    A layperson with no lawyer , takes our College for over 1 million in lawyer bills and he is still open and not even in jail after 3 judges and the Supreme Court of Appeal all agree on contempt and sham ?

    What's a hardened criminal lawyer & Attorney General going to do against him ?

    It is time to strike out against the Colleges, Associations , and embarass the Ministries . Their heads should roll and we should not be paying them for this kind of work and results . They should start by firing their own lawyers .

    All of the above is In my humble opinion ...feel free to adopt it as your own too .
    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 12-18-2009 at 05:23 PM.

  20. #20
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
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    I don't live in Canada or even a liscensed state.

    I could see your plan backfiring. What if rather than your colleges doing something about illegal dispensing, politicians and the public at large ceases to see the need for regulation of opticians?

  21. #21
    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    I don't live in Canada or even a liscensed state.

    I could see your plan backfiring. What if rather than your colleges doing something about illegal dispensing, politicians and the public at large ceases to see the need for regulation of opticians?
    You are not in a licensed state , which means that even the opticians there did not fight for themselves , to get the right for self regulation.
    If it is not worth fighting for in your own state then what is your point about backfiring ?

    There is a cost and risk for everything , there are no free lunches .

    You are forgetting that we have played this game the "legal lawyer" way for 8 years and we have the bills to prove it , But now it is time to see some results . Is there a risk , yes , but that chain of stores is a biggger risk & so is the internet .

    Sometimes ya gotta put yer foot down and say NO ! NO MORE !

    Will it backfire ? It could . Do you believe in the law ? The courts ? Regualtion ? The job that the registrars are empowered to do ? I do !

    But is any of that working ? NO it is not, therefore we have to kick start things back into order .

    How much do you believe in right and wrong ?

    Think about what you are saying . The public is supporting the illegal stores now , otherwise how did they get to be a 24 store chain and have the where-with-all to get to the Supreme Court ? The public is already supporting the internet sellers , otherwise how did one company go from ZERO to a Million dollars in sales per month only eight months from startup ?

    As for the politicians , who do you think is on the Board of Directors running some companies ?

    The horse is already out of the barn you just do not realize it . There is more risk in not doing it .

    Complaceny and apathy are part of the reason things are out of control .
    Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 12-18-2009 at 10:28 PM.

  22. #22
    Bad address email on file k12311997's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refractingoptician.com View Post
    You are not in a licensed state , which means that even the opticians there did not fight for themselves , to get the right for self regulation.
    If it is not worth fighting for in your own state then what is your point about backfiring ?
    My point is exactly what you state. Is it worth giving up the regulation of your profession to make your point. It is far easier to sit on your high already regulated horse and disparage me for asking a question than it is to gain regulation.

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    registeredoptician Refractingoptician.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    My point is exactly what you state. Is it worth giving up the regulation of your profession to make your point. It is far easier to sit on your high already regulated horse and disparage me for asking a question than it is to gain regulation.
    I do not disparage you . I answered your question . You may not like the answer . Disparage you ? No .

    as Louis says :

    In the end it is up to the man what he becomes, and none of the other things matter.

    It is character that counts.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by k12311997 View Post
    My point is exactly what you state. Is it worth giving up the regulation of your profession to make your point. It is far easier to sit on your high already regulated horse and disparage me for asking a question than it is to gain regulation.

    Talk with the Ontario Registrar if you need help gaining regulation . She is knowledgable and may help you .

  25. #25
    bilateral peripheral scotoma LandLord's Avatar
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    If anyone is afraid of deregulation, I say this. What good is regulation anyway if you are making the same amount of money as the average Joe? $800 PER YEAR FOR WHAT???!?!!

    The more companies like Great Glasses operate without need for opticians,

    The more internet companies sell glasses without need for opticians,

    The more optometry assistants sell glasses without need for opticians,

    WHO NEEDS AN OPTICIAN ANYWAY !!!!!!
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