Prog lens advice, I'm lost!

[klieg]

Howdy optiboard!

I'm searching or some advice on a difficult fit. It's more an issue with a particular lens company claiming they can not do what I want, which I understand, but am lost as to why.

Here's the story... Patient comes in, I fit her for clear and sunglasses. Clears are a Hoya Lifestyle Id cd and suns are Kodak Unique polarized. The clears are not really clear as they have a 10% solid brown tint (this is the problem) under the A/R stack. At dispense, patient felt the Lifestyle didn't offer as much distance zone as the Unique in terms of width. I advised patient to wear them and adapt. All fitting parameters were dead-on too, I double checked. Patient wore both pair for about two weeks and returned with same issue. I re-ordered the clear pair as a Unique. Lab calls just prior to shipping the lenses saying they are all set bu there is no tint as the Unique can not be tinted and A/R. Both the c/s agent and I are confused by this, but I say let's give it a shot, see what the patient thinks. This is no good. The patient needs the tint and the A/R to prevent migrains (highly light sensitive).

Here's the question... I need a lens that has comparable distance width to the unique, but can be tinted to a 10% brown and have A/R. I've used some Shamir lenses but am not experienced enough with them to comfortably order them without asking here.

Thanks in advance for any help. Sorry if I got wordy.

-Bryan

[rdcoach5]

Before I list a lot of lenses that I consider similar to the Unique, the most common problem that you are describing is caused by a lack of proper panto or seg too high or glasses fit too far away from the eyes. I have worn the Unique and consider Physio to be similar. I think Creation and GT2 are slightly better for one who does much computer. Autograph 2 and Zeiss Individual are tops.

[OCP]

Howdy optiboard!

I'm searching or some advice on a difficult fit. It's more an issue with a particular lens company claiming they can not do what I want, which I understand, but am lost as to why.

Here's the story... Patient comes in, I fit her for clear and sunglasses. Clears are a Hoya Lifestyle Id cd and suns are Kodak Unique polarized. The clears are not really clear as they have a 10% solid brown tint (this is the problem) under the A/R stack. At dispense, patient felt the Lifestyle didn't offer as much distance zone as the Unique in terms of width. I advised patient to wear them and adapt. All fitting parameters were dead-on too, I double checked. Patient wore both pair for about two weeks and returned with same issue. I re-ordered the clear pair as a Unique. Lab calls just prior to shipping the lenses saying they are all set bu there is no tint as the Unique can not be tinted and A/R. Both the c/s agent and I are confused by this, but I say let's give it a shot, see what the patient thinks. This is no good. The patient needs the tint and the A/R to prevent migrains (highly light sensitive).

Here's the question... I need a lens that has comparable distance width to the unique, but can be tinted to a 10% brown and have A/R. I've used some Shamir lenses but am not experienced enough with them to comfortably order them without asking here.

Thanks in advance for any help. Sorry if I got wordy.

-Bryan

The lack of distance width with the Lifestyle is normal for this product.
This will never be better unless you change to, lets say, Creation, GT2 or even better Auograph II.

Mike

[apaul]

I assume you have asked for a tint too late and they have applied the MAR coat?

[klieg]

I assume you have asked for a tint too late and they have applied the MAR coat?

Nope, tint was ordered from the beginning. The lab that my primary lab out sourced the order for the Kodak to applied the A/R without bothering to tell us that the tint wasn't an option. That's a different situation.

In reply to rdcoach5, all fitting characteristics were spot on. Proper panto, face form, PD, seg, everything was right on. Patient could see fine, just didn't like the narrower field of vision compared to the Unique in the sunglasses.

Thank you for the advice, I will see if I can get an Autograph 2 through my primary lab in some form and go from there.

[k12311997]

for what it's worth I've heard that tints lighten when the lenses are washed prior to AR coating and that it is harder to overtint and wash down to a reliable 10% than if your going for a 50 or above. or at least customers aren't as picky about a 45 or 55 when 50 is ordered as when a 10 is ordered and you get a 5 or 15. It is probably more a cya policy with your lab than an actual impossibility. maybe a lab guru can confirm or deny.

[AWTECH]

As I remember, the Signet Armolite Freeform facility did not originally want to deal with potential problem areas, so they started without any edging, no prism, and no tinting.

A major reason a facility would choose to not tint would be if they only wanted to offer a very hard, hard coat. To make a hard coat tintable it can not be as hard as a non-tinable or you have to double process. That is harden slightly then tint, then put back in the oven to cure longer. The time and double handling would make the tinting cost increase where most customers would not want to pay the additional tint charge.

Many processes can be done but it is just not cost effective to do so.

[OCP]

Howdy optiboard!

I'm searching or some advice on a difficult fit. It's more an issue with a particular lens company claiming they can not do what I want, which I understand, but am lost as to why.

Here's the story... Patient comes in, I fit her for clear and sunglasses. Clears are a Hoya Lifestyle Id cd and suns are Kodak Unique polarized. The clears are not really clear as they have a 10% solid brown tint (this is the problem) under the A/R stack. At dispense, patient felt the Lifestyle didn't offer as much distance zone as the Unique in terms of width. I advised patient to wear them and adapt. All fitting parameters were dead-on too, I double checked. Patient wore both pair for about two weeks and returned with same issue. I re-ordered the clear pair as a Unique. Lab calls just prior to shipping the lenses saying they are all set bu there is no tint as the Unique can not be tinted and A/R. Both the c/s agent and I are confused by this, but I say let's give it a shot, see what the patient thinks. This is no good. The patient needs the tint and the A/R to prevent migrains (highly light sensitive).

Here's the question... I need a lens that has comparable distance width to the unique, but can be tinted to a 10% brown and have A/R. I've used some Shamir lenses but am not experienced enough with them to comfortably order them without asking here.

Thanks in advance for any help. Sorry if I got wordy.

-Bryan

Give it one shot. An easy shot.
Give your client a pair of Autograph Classic (Element) with 10% brown and HMC. Your problem will disappear.

Mike

[Uilleann]

QC when trying to complete a tint and A/R together is almost always a headache. Too many compromises in one direction or another, and it is very difficult to achieve a desired density and consistency from one lens to the next. This is true with a number of lens manufacturers/labs. Certain lenses are not available with a tint at all. check with your lab and lens mfr. beforehand to eliminate any questions. I would suggest a polar A lens and a high quality A/R with a warranty - if you can find such in the lens design you're after.

[eyesee]

Try Nikon. I think they are distributed out of CT. Encore Optics. Make sure it is the real deal though, with the fog ID. Great lens.

[D.J. Roff, ABOM]

I have had some smashing success stories with the Varilux 360 lenses, in particular the Physio 360, in terms of patient perception of a nice, spacious, adaptable corridor. AND they are available in polarized. Problem is with the tinting -- at this point, they're refusing to tint 360s under the A-R coating (although that may change).

It is true that tints prior to A-R lighten somewhat in the coating process, so whenever I want a 15% tint, on some other lens, I ask for a 20% (and cross my fingers!). Most times this works, though not always. And given the expense of remaking these lenses just because the patient doesn't like the final tint density, there has been a curious history of "Yes, we can", followed by "No, we can't"... I suspect this is someone's knee-jerk reactions to a wave of requests, or to the latest horror story. But you can't really blame them. Right now, the 360s are simply not being offered with tints.

[Uilleann]

The 360s aren't available without A/R, and a tint undermines the final quality of the stack, so the labs won't make it in that case. If you can order a lens from a lab without A/R to begin with, you may have a more tint-able possibility. Just remember what you're giving up, and the extremely high likelihood of a remake. If you want to cheese off your lab - send them lots of these sorts of jobs. I'm curious with a patient as photophobic as you make mention of - what good is a 10% tint anyway? Wouldn't a 50% be far more comfortable? Have they even tried it? 10% isn't far off from the normal absorption of a standard high index material by itself. How about saving the tint and just put them in a 1.60 or 1.67 etc. and no A/R?

Best of luck :cheers::cheers:

[D.J. Roff, ABOM]

The 360s aren't available without A/R, and a tint undermines the final quality of the stack, so the labs won't make it in that case. If you can order a lens from a lab without A/R to begin with, you may have a more tint-able possibility. Just remember what you're giving up, and the extremely high likelihood of a remake. If you want to cheese off your lab - send them lots of these sorts of jobs. I'm curious with a patient as photophobic as you make mention of - what good is a 10% tint anyway? Wouldn't a 50% be far more comfortable? Have they even tried it? 10% isn't far off from the normal absorption of a standard high index material by itself. How about saving the tint and just put them in a 1.60 or 1.67 etc. and no A/R?


Best of luck :cheers::cheers:

VERY good point!

[apaul]

Eh? Kodak Unique can be tinted and multi-coated in the UK

[Uilleann]

There are a good number of lenses that *can* be tinted and then have A/R stacks applied. But as stated above - you're taking your proverbial life in your hands in most cases. It's one of the hardest combinations to do well - let alone consistently from one lens to another. Just because it's *possible* doesn't make it wise or correct necessarily. Best! :cheers::cheers:

[AdmiralKnight]

Is it possible it's not the lens design itself, but rather the fact that her suns are fit different? I've been known on occasion to fit a PAL for suns a bit lower than those for clear lenses to give more distance area. Bigger lens, lower seg = wider distance.

[YrahG]

Is it possible it's not the lens design itself, but rather the fact that her suns are fit different? I've been known on occasion to fit a PAL for suns a bit lower than those for clear lenses to give more distance area. Bigger lens, lower seg = wider distance.

Then your fitting your suns wrong, with the number of designs out there if you find it necessary to offset the reading area to try and fudge a bit wider distance then you've choosen the worng design from the start.

[Judy Canty]

Not necessarily. I fit my own polarized PAL's a bit lower that usual. I spend a lot of time driving and since car seats recline just a tad, the lower seg is just more comfortable for me.

[Judy Canty]

Howdy optiboard!

I'm searching or some advice on a difficult fit. It's more an issue with a particular lens company claiming they can not do what I want, which I understand, but am lost as to why.

Here's the story... Patient comes in, I fit her for clear and sunglasses. Clears are a Hoya Lifestyle Id cd and suns are Kodak Unique polarized. The clears are not really clear as they have a 10% solid brown tint (this is the problem) under the A/R stack. At dispense, patient felt the Lifestyle didn't offer as much distance zone as the Unique in terms of width. I advised patient to wear them and adapt. All fitting parameters were dead-on too, I double checked. Patient wore both pair for about two weeks and returned with same issue. I re-ordered the clear pair as a Unique. Lab calls just prior to shipping the lenses saying they are all set bu there is no tint as the Unique can not be tinted and A/R. Both the c/s agent and I are confused by this, but I say let's give it a shot, see what the patient thinks. This is no good. The patient needs the tint and the A/R to prevent migrains (highly light sensitive).

Here's the question... I need a lens that has comparable distance width to the unique, but can be tinted to a 10% brown and have A/R. I've used some Shamir lenses but am not experienced enough with them to comfortably order them without asking here.

Thanks in advance for any help. Sorry if I got wordy.

-Bryan

Why not consider using a Transitions or SunSensors product?

[D.J. Roff, ABOM]

Not necessarily. I fit my own polarized PAL's a bit lower that usual. I spend a lot of time driving and since car seats recline just a tad, the lower seg is just more comfortable for me.

I do the same thing... sometimes using a polarized short-corridor just to get a lower channel. Most folks don't use the near zone on sunglasses that much, anyway... just to see who's on the cellphone, or to read a book at the beach.

I know this is heresy, but I also have a set of lined flat-tops that I use just for driving -- nothing else. No stones, please, rotten tomatoes only!

[Strab]

Not necessarily. I fit my own polarized PAL's a bit lower that usual. I spend a lot of time driving and since car seats recline just a tad, the lower seg is just more comfortable for me.

This is good to know since I fortunately only need distance vision correction, I have no personal experiance to share with my patients but this is exactly what I do as well. I determine the task that each pair of their glasses will be used for and measure accordingly. So if a patient has two identical pairs of frames they still may end up with different seg. ht's. I had one patient recently that has to read barcodes above their head so I made a pair of PAL's (since the pt. didn't want double D's) w/ a higher seg. just for their work. They love their new PAL's and no longer have the neck and headaches from straining and tilting their head back so far.

[Refractingoptician.com]

,.

[Happylady]

Not necessarily. I fit my own polarized PAL's a bit lower that usual. I spend a lot of time driving and since car seats recline just a tad, the lower seg is just more comfortable for me.

I did this with my new Drivewear Pal and am a little sorry I did. I like to sit outside and read in nice weather and the reading area is just a tad low. It's fine for everything else. I have no problem driving in regular PALs so I wish I had just left it alone.

[Judy Canty]

I did this with my new Drivewear Pal and am a little sorry I did. I like to sit outside and read in nice weather and the reading area is just a tad low. It's fine for everything else. I have no problem driving in regular PALs so I wish I had just left it alone.

Only one pair of Suns? ;);)

[DC Optix]

#1 -Kodak Unique has a super hard top coat which is non-tintable.

#2 -Signet Armorlite is also in a contract dispute regarding the Unique software, and therefore they are unavailable with prism as well. Spoke with the SA regional mgr and he said they hope to have the contractual issues worked out by middle of 2010.



I agree with many who have said to go to the Auto II. We fit a lot of Uniques and the Auto II has been a good sub when it is unavailable for whatever reason.