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Thread: I know why Essilor is selling lenses online!

  1. #1
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    I know why Essilor is selling lenses online!

    I don't know why anyone is selling Essilor, I have had reps come in offering:
    1. Unlimited remakes on Crizal coatings for the life of the prescription.
    2. 50% off second pair purchaseses for the same patient.
    3. They are always willing to droop the price to match what I'm currently paying.
    The list goes on....

    I recently saw a thread about the cost of AR coatings, everyone wants to look at the price as a function of quality but if the coatings were all that great they wouldn't need an unheard of warranty. The warranty is a marketing gimmick that leads people to believe that their coating is the best with no questions asked the warranty is designed to hurt their competitors. Where have I seen this gimmick used before, oh yeah Luxottica with their return policy.

    It seems that the cost to the ECP is going up for their coatings with every new incarnation with a bulk of it going to cover these gimmicks, while on the back end they'e selling lenses online and allowing them to be sold at close to wholesale prices by non-professionals.

    I used to value Varilux products because of their exclusivity to professionals, it ensured that the lenses came from reputable professionals. Now that the lenses can be purchased from any hobo with a server it seems the value is inflated and who's the first to realize this fact? Essilor labs, they're practically [spoiler=Not sure if this word is allowed]whoring[/spoiler] themselves to get rid of their product. 50% off a second pair, that means over the years I have been paying a 25% premium on their products. That's significant, and the coating if I have an unlimited remake for the life of the Rx then I must be overpaying for those as well right. I have taken the advice of those on this site by reducing my frames vendors that have ridiculous warranties because I end up paying for these warranties and if I utilize these warranties beyond what the company feels I should I start to experience bad service from them. So I buy what I sell and sell what I buy and the bottom line ha never been healthier. I have also started to take pride in what I purchase and how I purchase. Now I'm thinking that I may need to apply this same philosophy to my lens vendors. Sorry I had to share this since it felt like a eureka moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YrahG View Post
    So I buy what I sell and sell what I buy and the bottom line ha never been healthier. I have also started to take pride in what I purchase and how I purchase. Now I'm thinking that I may need to apply this same philosophy to my lens vendors. Sorry I had to share this since it felt like a eureka moment.

    Congratulations!:cheers:

    You, like many others on this board, have discovered, and put into practice, the secret of success.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Welcome to the Revolution!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fezz View Post
    Welcome to the Revolution!!!!!
    Is it really revolutionary or just good business, why should good buisness be the revolution and blind faith be for the masses? Maybe the future of the profession should incorporate good business as mainstream and the companies with nothing to offer but gimmicks be relegated to the revolution.

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Yet another good argument for independent labs!!

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by YrahG View Post
    Is it really revolutionary or just good business, why should good buisness be the revolution and blind faith be for the masses? Maybe the future of the profession should incorporate good business as mainstream and the companies with nothing to offer but gimmicks be relegated to the revolution.
    What Brother Fezz is saying is that we are revolting against the "business as usual" philosophy. For some of us, it's not new, and we know nothing else, for others, they've struck out in search of a more efficient way of making their businesses thrive rather than just survive. Still, there are others that will find this way only out of necessity, when they are backed up against the wall, and for them, it may be too late.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    Plenty of good reasons.....

    But, can someone with more business sense then I please help me understand our proffession's present situation? (does that make sense?) if we're going to make a difference somehow can anyone explain to me how an industry(any industry) in the past which has been threatened like ours is now- How the he** did they change what they did to guarantee their future?? Huh? I feel like we're all swirling around a huge black hole in space waiting for our turn to pass the "event horizon". And we all know what's at the center of that hole. Sometimes I feel like no matter how hard we resist the pull-someone we don't expect is gonna shove us in from behind.
    Chris Beard
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    I'm a Medford man – Medford, Oregon. Up in Medford, we take our time making up our minds."

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    Ophthalmic Optician OptiBoard Gold Supporter
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    Not a rant, just what it looks like from where I'm sitting...

    Quote Originally Posted by FVCCHRIS View Post
    if we're going to make a difference somehow can anyone explain to me how an industry(any industry) in the past which has been threatened like ours is now- How the he** did they change what they did to guarantee their future?? Huh? I feel like we're all swirling around a huge black hole in space waiting for our turn to pass the "event horizon". And we all know what's at the center of that hole. Sometimes I feel like no matter how hard we resist the pull-someone we don't expect is gonna shove us in from behind.
    I'd be the last person to say that I believe what we are doing will have any affect on anybody other than ourselves. You are talking about huge companies w/ momentum, that will continue on the path they are on.

    For myself, I believe that I am positioning my business to do no more than hang on a little longer than some of the others. There are more forces in effect here than just a few big companies grabbing market share.

    For any of the O's, you've got three other O's (you've got to count your peers) trying to get your customers... before you even get off Main Street. Then, you've got the chains, and the internet. And we haven't even gotten into how your buying is going to affect your ability to sell your product.

    When I talk about not buying from the big guys, I have no illusions, nor is it my intent, to have any effect on their business. I'm an optician, the lowest being on the optical food chain. I buy so little compared to the rest of the field, that if I stop buying from any source, they would not even notice it.

    No, I was being 100% self centered when I decided many years ago to "go off the grid" in terms of frame, and in some cases lens vendors. How will it impact MY bottom line, MY employees, MY ability to support MY family?

    Our industry is changing. I will only be able to control that change, and even then, only on a very limited basis, within the walls of my own practice. I won't be able to influence my peers as to where they buy their products, nor to whom they sell their products.

    I've received many, many, PMs from ODs, MDs, and opticians in the last year wanting to buy frames "off the grid". In many cases I was able to fulfill their needs. Many talked about wanting to embrace this new way of doing business and asking for other little known sources from which to acquire products. I've had the opportunity to visit many of them, and have seen the changes, and seen the dividends they are reaping. Others, however, have approached it as a novelty, a way to have a sale, or give a quick "jolt" to the practice, but then go back to their old buying habits. Those are the practices that continue to support their competition, and when they are looking at how they are going to pay off the balances on their statements, for frames that are still sitting on their shelves, then they'll come around again. Kind of like an addict that's on the wagon for awhile, but then can't help themselves. That's why the big guys will win in the end.

    Guarantee your future? If there were guarantees, everybody would be in business, and everyone would be successful. We're living in a new age of communication and technology, the likes of which have never been experienced before.

    Other industries have been threatened, faced the threat, and today you can't recognize them, if they in fact still exist. Service stations. (huh?) Drug Stores (what are those?) Travel agents (Orbitz?). And we're not talking a long time ago. Many of these have changed in the last 10 years or less.

    Re:You're last statement: "Sometimes I feel like no matter how hard we resist the pull-someone we don't expect is gonna shove us in from behind." is true, but remember, even if someone shoves you from behind, you're still moving. It's when you stop moving that you're in real trouble.
    Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry

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    I have heard similar things about Essilor cutting and matching prices to get business or al:hammer: o giving a month or more worth of free lenses to get business. Those are the rumors anyway. But if the ecp is smart he/she can use this to their advantage. If you are an Essilor account you should use the independents because you will only benefit from it according to this scenario. If you leave Essilor for an independent chances are they will come back to you with a better deal. So use an independent and the worse thing that can happen to you is you may end up even saving more money later from essilor or you might just find working with an independent is better and easier. But i guess is you dont try an independent you may still have to pay the higher prices? The rumor is they only come back with better deal if you leave em.

    Quote Originally Posted by YrahG View Post
    I don't know why anyone is selling Essilor, I have had reps come in offering:
    1. Unlimited remakes on Crizal coatings for the life of the prescription.
    2. 50% off second pair purchaseses for the same patient.
    3. They are always willing to droop the price to match what I'm currently paying.
    The list goes on....

    I recently saw a thread about the cost of AR coatings, everyone wants to look at the price as a function of quality but if the coatings were all that great they wouldn't need an unheard of warranty. The warranty is a marketing gimmick that leads people to believe that their coating is the best with no questions asked the warranty is designed to hurt their competitors. Where have I seen this gimmick used before, oh yeah Luxottica with their return policy.

    It seems that the cost to the ECP is going up for their coatings with every new incarnation with a bulk of it going to cover these gimmicks, while on the back end they'e selling lenses online and allowing them to be sold at close to wholesale prices by non-professionals.

    I used to value Varilux products because of their exclusivity to professionals, it ensured that the lenses came from reputable professionals. Now that the lenses can be purchased from any hobo with a server it seems the value is inflated and who's the first to realize this fact? Essilor labs, they're practically [spoiler=Not sure if this word is allowed]whoring[/spoiler] themselves to get rid of their product. 50% off a second pair, that means over the years I have been paying a 25% premium on their products. That's significant, and the coating if I have an unlimited remake for the life of the Rx then I must be overpaying for those as well right. I have taken the advice of those on this site by reducing my frames vendors that have ridiculous warranties because I end up paying for these warranties and if I utilize these warranties beyond what the company feels I should I start to experience bad service from them. So I buy what I sell and sell what I buy and the bottom line ha never been healthier. I have also started to take pride in what I purchase and how I purchase. Now I'm thinking that I may need to apply this same philosophy to my lens vendors. Sorry I had to share this since it felt like a eureka moment.

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    I have heard that as well, if you threaten to leave they will make you a better offer. I also have heard of offices where they give the office a credit every month, or in essence pay them to use an essilor lab. It is amazing the lengths they'll go to. I don't know if I want a circus clown as my lab, I have noticed also that when I order Crizal coatings through one of my independents and a Crizal through one of the Essilor labs I use the one form the independent is slippier and holds up better, the one from the Essilor lab used to have crazing issues at one point. How does a company that created a product supply it with less quality then their competitors that licnse the product? I'm just re-evaluating my labs at the end of the year, I was told never to use just one and to keep a relationship with at least 2, and one is the big E and it seems they are never satisfied my relationaship is the same as it was day one. Apparently I don't do enough business to care about, but others in my area have shown me these fantastic deals they're getting from E, apparently my overpayign is subsidizing some great offers to the rest of my optical communitty.

    So everyone here that uses a big E lab your welcome. My overpayments have meant your great savings. I'm glad I could help, but I'm all tapped out next years gonna be a bear.

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    Come on....PARTNER!

    Quote Originally Posted by YrahG View Post
    Apparently I don't do enough business to care about, but others in my area have shown me these fantastic deals they're getting from E, apparently my overpayign is subsidizing some great offers to the rest of my optical communitty.

    So everyone here that uses a big E lab your welcome. My overpayments have meant your great savings. I'm glad I could help, but I'm all tapped out next years gonna be a bear.

    I say you are ready to leave BigBoy Island! You are realizing the harsh reality that is business these days. It is just not the BigE. It is most of the companies. I saw the *LIGHT* quite a few years ago. I made a decision that has kept me afloat. I decided that all of the BS, the fuzzy math, the shady discounts, the gimmicks, the horseing around, the feeling of being used, and the general anger over the whole thing was not worth it! These big companies are not my friends, not my buddies, not my lovers, not my PARTNERS!

    I have never felt more liberated and alive as the day I escaped BigBoy Island!

    :cheers::cheers::cheers:

  12. #12
    OptiBoard Apprentice Mr.Goggle's Avatar
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    Bravo!

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    I'll say the same thing from a different angle.

    Essilor is interested in exploiting all possible distribution channels for their products.* Essilor is trying to have it both ways; selling in the lowest of markets and the highest of markets.

    I ask you:
    What would happen if Cartier had these really, really chic, super-expensive shops, and also had a kiosk at WalMart?

    What would happen if Ferrarri made world-class sports cars and econ-boxes?

    The brand would become an ultimate, freaking joke.

    Will Essilor become an ultimate, freaking joke? Will we be calling it "Essil-whoar"?




    *That's a no no, right there, but we'll discuss corporate responsibility some other time.

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    Glad you see the light too

    All I will say is go with Zeiss.

    I love the GT2 3D, GT2 3D short and the Individual. Sola HDV is also a super lens. The new Purecote AR is very impressive.

    Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by beertv View Post
    All I will say is go with Zeiss.

    I love the GT2 3D, GT2 3D short and the Individual. Sola HDV is also a super lens. The new Purecote AR is very impressive.

    Don
    Don't think for a second that Zeiss is any better than Essilor. They are just as guilty of all the business practices mentioned, if not worse sometimes.

  16. #16
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Has Zeiss also supported an entity (founded by ODs) that cuts optical services by a licensed professional out of dispensing--to the detriment of society's good vision and contrary to many state regulations--for the sake of additional obscene profit?

    I wasn't aware of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drk View Post
    Has Zeiss also supported an entity (founded by ODs) that cuts optical services by a licensed professional out of dispensing--to the detriment of society's good vision and contrary to many state regulations--for the sake of additional obscene profit?

    I wasn't aware of that.
    Go to the framesdirect website and see which lenses are being offered. In addition to the Accolade and Accolade Freedom, the GT2 is listed as will. They have their fingers in somehow.

  18. #18
    OptiWizard Mr. Finney's Avatar
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    Interesting that they claim to be more accurate at fitting heights with a "mathematical equation" than an optician is with "standard methods".

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    [QUOTE=
    I used to value Varilux products because of their exclusivity to professionals, it ensured that the lenses came from reputable professionals. Now that the lenses can be purchased from any hobo with a server it seems the value is inflated and who's the first to realize this fact? /QUOTE]

    I've always had a problem with this concept. I have a colleague who uses Essilor exclusively and believes that they really help his practice. He specifically writes "Physio 360" or "Comfort 360" on his Rx's and proudly explains to patients that they will not find this at Costco or Lenscrafters. I simply don't understand the strategy because I've never had a patient ever mention the specific name of a progressive. In fact, in 10 years I've never examined a patient who even knew which progressive they were wearing. I'm pretty sure they would be as happy with any progressive that I give them as long as it is fit correctly. Therefore, this strategy has always baffled me. I'm glad you've finally realized this.

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    Redhot Jumper Zeisss is not any different...................

    Quote Originally Posted by beertv View Post
    All I will say is go with Zeiss.
    Zeiss is not any different. They follow the same pattern of absorbing optical labs everywhere and started a chain of 500 retail stores in India............and this are all facts and no dreams.
    Chris Ryser
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    Redhot Jumper

    FGX International to be Acquired by Essilor International for $19.75 Per Share


    SMITHFIELD, R.I., Dec 16, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- FGX International Holdings Limited (NASDAQ:FGXI) today announced that it has signed a definitive agreement to merge with a subsidiary of Essilor International ofCharenton-le-Pont, France. Essilor shares trade on the NYSE Euronext Paris market and are included in the CAC 40 index.
    Under the terms of the merger agreement, which was unanimously approved by the Boards of Directors of both companies, FGX International shareholders will receive $19.75 per share in cash upon completion of the merger, for an aggregate value of approximately $565 million, including the assumption of FGX debt of approximately $100 million. If completed, FGX International will become a wholly owned subsidiary of Essilor.

    Essilor International is the world leader in ophthalmic optical products. Marketed under such brands as Varilux(R), Crizal(R), Essilor(R) and Definity(R), Essilor offers a wide range of lenses to correct myopia, hyperopia, astigmatism and presbyopia. Essilor has approximately 35,000 employees with a presence in approximately 100 countries, including the US. It operates through 15 production sites, 293 lens finishing laboratories and local distribution networks. In 2008, Essilor had revenues of approximately EUR 3.1 billion.

    FGX International is North America's leading designer and marketer of non-prescription reading glasses and popular priced sunglasses. FGX brands include FosterGrant(R), Magnivision(R), Solar Shield(R), Polar Eyes(R), Corinne McCormack(R), Angel(TM), Anarchy(R), and Gargoyles(R). FGX also holds licenses to sell optical products under the Ironman, Levi Strauss Signature, C9 by Champion and Body Glove brands. FGX International products are found in over 68,000 retail locations in the US, Canada, Mexico and the United Kingdom. Revenues for 2008 were approximately $256 million (approximately $237 million, excluding the divested Jewelry business).

    Alec Taylor, CEO of FGX International commented "This proposed merger is of major significance to FGX International. Essilor's global reach will be of considerable strategic value to market our products on a worldwide basis and will greatly enhance our competitive position. Essilor's global footprint will allow us to expand our presence in Europe, Asia and other parts of the world, while continuing to focus on growing our North American sales in over-the-counter reading glasses and popular-priced sunglasses. We also find the Essilor culture compelling and a good fit with ours. We believe this transaction represents a significant value for our shareholders."

    "This acquisition is in line with Essilor's strategy of procuring the resources needed to provide a quality offering that covers different eyewear market segments around the world in order to meet a wide range of needs. It also strengthens the company's business base and enhances its growth prospects," said Hubert Sagnières, Essilor's COO and CEO designate. "Demand for non-prescription reading glasses is growing. In addition, the market fits well with our prescription lens business and is supported by favorable demographic trends. FGX will benefit from our international distribution network while we will leverage FGX's brands and expertise to deploy this new offering around the world."

    FGX International will be a stand-alone business unit of Essilor. FGX's headquarters will remain in Rhode Island and it will also continue to maintain offices in San Luis Obispo, CA; Toronto, Canada; Stoke-on-Trent, England; New York, NY; Mexico City, Mexico; and Shenzhen, China. Alec Taylor will remain Chief Executive Officer of FGX International and FGX's management team will be unchanged.

    Read More At:

    http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....6404&highlight=
    Chris Ryser
    ________________________________________
    DLO. NA.IC.I.T.PO

    http://optochemicals.com............................. http://arcoatings.com

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    I think we all need to remember, if we want better designs, the lens companies need to make money as well. I'm a firm believer in negotiating the best possible deal for your business, and then supporting suppliers as business partners.

    People should be seeing you because of your excellent service and professional expertise. Think of other industries that deal with suppliers which sell items online, they aren't complaining are they? I work as a consultant to optometry and opticianry businesses, as a coach and trainer for dispensary staff, etc. and what I see is the first to care about the client - actually care about what they say and what they want - wins.

    :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarySue View Post
    I think we all need to remember, if we want better designs, the lens companies need to make money as well. I'm a firm believer in negotiating the best possible deal for your business, and then supporting suppliers as business partners.

    People should be seeing you because of your excellent service and professional expertise. Think of other industries that deal with suppliers which sell items online, they aren't complaining are they? I work as a consultant to optometry and opticianry businesses, as a coach and trainer for dispensary staff, etc. and what I see is the first to care about the client - actually care about what they say and what they want - wins.

    :)
    All of that sounds great to me in theory, but my local independent lab supplies all kinds of products not just one manufacturers so they would be my most likely choice for a *partner*.

    The big E wants my business no matter the cost so they are willing to cut their margins to next to zero, this is done so that they can dominate the market and push out independents. Then they need to sell online because they have to make money? I'm not having that, they should sell their product at a competitive price instead of giving every account of theirs the star and the moon to turn around and figure out they need to steal their clients clients in order to turn a profit.

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    To add to the above post Varilux and their labs will NEVER tell you the truth comparing their lenses to competitors lenses, this is actually a breach of contractual agreement between a Varilux and the independent Varilux laboratory. If you search for Noveau in the forums you will find a document about a possible suit against VSP and Essilor. When Mary Sue says:

    Quote Originally Posted by MarySue
    if we want better designs
    The contractual agreements made by labs with Essilor do not allow for an enviornment that is condusive to better designs. This also applies to their coatings.

    I have attached an image of the section from the document mentioned above, your more than welcome to search for the full length document. I labelled it integrity for obvious reasons.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails integrity.PNG  

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilanh View Post
    ...in 10 years I've never examined a patient who even knew which progressive they were wearing. I'm pretty sure they would be as happy with any progressive that I give them as long as it is fit correctly. Therefore, this strategy has always baffled me...
    Branding can and does work. But it does take an effort on the part of a practice. I've been in several practices where patients asked for a progressive lens, A/R, photochromic lens, contact etc. by name. It can be a good tool, and if you think about it, every one of the big lens manufactures has some fancy-pants name for their products that a marketing dept. dreamed up at some point along the way. This isn't an Essilor thing - it's a business thing. And it is found everywhere in our little optical world.

    Some will have more luck exploiting it than others in their own practice settings of course.

    All the best! :cheers::cheers::cheers:

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