Help with question about salary....

[KEVIN88GT]

- lab tech with 3 years experience with following edgers
Esillor Alpha and Gamma
Sentinelli paternless
Briot CX
-Tinting and the rest of the obvious duties
-Ordering products
-Fitting patients and dispensing
-Notifiyng patients
-Updating patient records and processing insurance info.
-Sales and maintaining sales floor
-Ordering frames and writing up patients for C/L
-VERY low remake numbers and high quality work...quality NOT quantity....
-very strong sales skills and can answer almost ANY qestion a patient may ask. (Unless it's eye health related)

BASICALLY i do everything except examine the patient.....
I get paid 13.00 and hour and this is at the UPPER EAST SIDE in MANHATTAN NYC...... does anyone feel like I'm grossly underpaid. I log in 25 hours a week there and i'm a college student hoping to go to optometry school.:o if anyone here thinks then can give me some info on wages I would appreciate it GREATLY.

[chip anderson]

You must be working for an O.D. and you want to become one?

[Rich R]

Hi Kevin
It's difficult to give a response, but here are my thoughts on it.
I think you are middle or upper pay from the description you give.
The higher pay usually requires a management title in the bussiness, however there are exceptions, as I know a few Opticians who make more than $13. and also many who make less, so it depends alot who you work for and how much they care about quality help.
Rich R

[KEVIN88GT]

yeh I am working for an OD. However I wont be as frugal as he is if I ever become one. Rich R, I see what you're saying, I would have to MANAGE the lab to get more money.......by the way where are you from.

[Joann Raytar]

Kevin,

Hello from the state next door!

You said you are a "lab tech with 3 years experience with following edgers Esillor Alpha and Gamma" and you "log 25 hours a week." If you are underpaid, depends on if you have had 3 years experience edging or 3 years experience in the field. Also, have you always been part time? If you have always been part time and you have been doing this for a total of 3 years then you are about average for our area. (Remember 3 years at full time is about 6,000 hours, 3 years part time is about 3,000 hours so you just crossed the time line to be able to sit for NY's license exam. NYS Ophthalmic Dispensing Requirements )

Have you thought about obtaining your license?

[KEVIN88GT]

I have been doing everything I described in the original post for 3 years part time. When you said I might be able to sit for the NY's liscence exam. Did you mean for an opthalmic dispenser or an optician. ? I'm guessing it was opthalmic dispensing and your last question was about becomind an optician.

If i do become an "opthalmic dispenser" will I be able to make more money?

As far as becoming an optician, I would have to go to school for it and since i'm an undegraduate in college that would be pretty much impossible....and even if i did.....i'd STILL be making the same money....

[PAkev]

Kevin,

The experience and responsibilities you described are something most employers would normally expect their employees to demonstrate.

I read an article in one of the trade journals which showed "MOST" on the job trained optical techs learning curve to be very steep the first four months and then almost flattened out after that. Experience and/or education alone is no guarantee for a quality performer. Quality opticians are motivated to do their job by applying their experience and education in order to meet the changing demands of the patients and the industry. Most folks would much rather hire an optician that learned and applied one thing every month for a year than hire someone who has only been turning a screwdriver for the past twenty five years.

If you feel you are underpaid, I suggest you begin keeping record of your current abilities and yearly sales. Request an annual evaluation with consideration of a salary increase based upon the OD's sales increase resulting from your contribution of his profitability.

Let us know how you make out.

Kevin(PAkev)

[Joann Raytar]

Satisfactory completion of a two-year (24 month) training program in ophthalmic dispensing, approved by the Department and under the supervision of an ophthalmic dispenser, optometrist, or physician. Applicants must submit a Certification of Trainee Experience in Ophthalmic Dispensing and/or Contact Lens Dispensing form, signed by the appropriate supervisor(s), covering 24 months and 2,400 hours of approved training. Candidates applying for licensure under this provision must also submit a certificate showing satisfactory completion of the National Academy of Opticianry's Career Progression Program. For details about the Career Progression Program certificate, please contact the:

I would contact the NAO and find out what is involved with their Progression Program.

• http://www.nao.org/home.htm

You have the hours needed; you appear to just be missing the NAO program.

The Ophthalmic Dispensing and Contact Lens traineeship allows an individual to fulfill the education requirement for licensure as an ophthalmic dispenser in New York State by completing at least two years of alternative training and experience under the on-site supervision of a licensed ophthalmic dispenser, optometrist, or physician. Under New York State law individuals who practice ophthalmic dispensing must be licensed, must be students in an ophthalmic program registered by the Department, or must hold a valid permit. No one can begin a traineeship without a trainee permit from the Department.

Are you apprenticed? If you are I think you should contact someone and find out more about getting your license.

I don't know how NY employers feel about paying for officially certified experience. In CT you need an LO to be able to open your doors unless you are an OD or MD practice. Even then, many Docs hire LO's to run their dispensaries. Usually, there is an increase in pay scale in those states that have tougher licensing requirements not to mention the fact that you make yourself more marketable as far as employment is concerned.

[stephanie]

Well Kevin like the others have said it is hard to answer that question. I am a licensed optician and working as an ophthalmic tech(not certified yet). You would think I may mucho money but I don't make as much as you do. There again you live in a different area than I do too and there is no competition here at all. I would say if you are not licensed you are not doing too bad. Of course like I said before it is hard to say. Find out what other stores are paying their opticians. If they are giving a lot more for the same experience you might want to consider a change. If you are planning on going to optometry school you may just want to hang in there and get the experience. I am caught in a similar position as like I said there is no competition here. Employers can pay whatever they want since there is no where for you to go you have to take it or there is no where else for you to go. My husband makes more money working at a factory than I do. It is between having a job and not having one I have no choice if I wish to stay in this business. I wish you the best of luck as we are all looking for the best possible pay for the work we do. Unfortunately in this world it is not always going to be that way.

Best of luck,
Steph

[chip anderson]

Kevin:

Here's another strategy: Find an old optician like me who would like to have someone slowly work into the business so he can at least slowly partially retire. Be willing to work for very little at first with the idea in mind that there are a few opticians (ususally working for themselves) who pull in well over $ 100.00 an hour. But you will probably never make this unless you build it yourself, people seldom pay people they can replace more than thier replacement cost.

Chip

[Alan W]

You appear to be stronger on the mfg side than sales side.
Maybe I'm wrong.
If I'm correct, you are paid about average.
On the other hand, if you are sales oriented you are paid low to average for 3 years in a high end environment, overpaid at Walmart in states that are not licensed or where Certification is not respected.
A few other skills such as mastering imaging in sales can get you (with comissions or incentives) $15.00 - $20.00/hr.
What are your full time counterparts getting. You should be getting slightly more because your experience should make you more productive in shorter work hours. If this is not true and you are no better than the other guy then your experience has not scored well with the boss. Move on.
By the way . . . so your boss is frugal and that seems to be a wide-spread characteristic of OD's with opticians. All these points being said . . . living here in the south (Texas) is a disgrace, and $13.00 is high, but you can earn more if you are in sales doing $75.00/hr or more. Look at your salary as a percentage of your gross. 10% in a high volume low end place to probably no more than 20% in a "better eyewear" shop.
And, there are tons of exceptions to that rule.

[KEVIN88GT]

Alan my sales abilities and mfg abilities are equal, I hustle around and do BOTH unlike most opticians (i'm not an opticial, even though my boss refers to me at one in front of patients etc etc) I've worked in large stores like Lens Crafters and I know that opticians either do one or the other....NOT BOTH....(different in smaller stores) as far as you saying I should find out what my counterpart is getting...there is only one optician in the store, she has 10 or so years of experience (yet the level of my work and hers are the same as is the knowledge more or less) and I cant ask her how much she makes....(i think that's illegal or somethin) and even if it was I'd be uncomfortable, even though i'm on very good terms with her.(BTW she is full time and deals with sales and inventory mostly and does but 10 percent of the lab work, while i do 90% part time) How else can i find out how much people in my area (doing the same exact job that i do) make.
I was thinking that if i was to look for another job I would want to have the status of a manager because thats the only way I can make more money. I appreciate everyone's help on this thread and find it VERY informative...I also welcome any suggestions and ideas(like for example how temped people would be to hiring me to manage part time with no optical education....all HANDS ON....) I also met many opticians that just came out of school that make me giggle. (Like how they try to tell me how it matters that you block a non cyl lens on the 3 dots on the lensometer while only the optical center really matters....stupid things like that) I'm not happy at my job....i work my A$$ off (because my boss knows people in SUNY optometry school and MIGHT help me...{if even} to get me in) Thats why I posted this thread...i'm at a crossroad...

[Johns]

Kevin:

I a conversation w/ one of my employees today on this same subject. He make $14.75 per hour. He told me that he talked to a manager at a chain store that offered her $17.00 per hour. Now, I must tell you, this employee is very happy w/ us, and the conversation was just in passing. He was genuinely interested to know why (how) they could pay so much.

We decided that it was not the money, but the job.

The store making the offer requires 3 nights per week until 9:00 (sorry kids..Dad/Mom's working late tonight).
They have a terrible reputation for lack of quality.
The store is located w/in a large anchor store, located w/in a mall.
This location cannot keep managers because the stress level is so high.
This location has an even harder time keeping employees.

You can always find a job that pays more money, but my father always said, "If you make a million dollars a day, but don't like your job, you're underpaid."

[KEVIN88GT]

Yes I understand what you're saying completely and i'm a strong believer in "If you love your job you'll never have to work another day in your life" but i dont like it that much.....and as a 21 year old working part time in NYC....i'd like to save some money.....not just spending cash...

[Alan W]

If you ask me I would start interviewing.
You'll find out PDQ what someone is willing to pay.
I have a "what was once" young friend who called himself an optician. Couldn't quite get along with docs and lots of optical people. Thought he was the bees knees.
After 5 interviews he decided no one was willing to pay what he was worth. (A legend in his own mind, he was!)
Got a job working for Allain Mikli in Manhatten.
The brat jumped from 20 K to 45 K and man was he impossible to live with.
One year later he was back to school for accounting.
Why the switch after all that?
"I was d - - - - - d good . . . the best. But, the backstabbing was terrible and I couldn't get along with the woman above me!"

MOTS . . . "The grass ain't greener on the other side!"

[Joann Raytar]

Originally posted by Alan W
If you ask me I would start interviewing.
You'll find out PDQ what someone is willing to pay.

That's not a bad idea and you'll get a feel for what talents folks in your area are looking for.

The following link may or may not be accurate for your area; it covers New York State back in 1998 but it may be of some help. Not to mention it includes a video that very, very poor quality especially when using a dial-up connection; it reminds me of those old high school videos.

• http://www.acinet.org/acinet/occ_rep...ps=36&x=51&y=6

[Johns]

Kevin:

Q-U-I-T.

You've already said that you don't like it that much. There's too much involved w/your job to not be making a good buck, and/or enjoy what your doing. You could find a better paying job tomorrow, and not have to invest so much emotion.

-Be a stripper !!
- Be a waiter !!
-Get a job on a shrimp boat !!(do they have those in NY ? )

Do something fun for awhile, because after all, you're going to be an optometrist for a long, long, time.

[Chris1]

Kevin, work, be good, go to school and finish Optometry. And just remember NOT to treat a qualified person in your office like you were treated, and you will feel good inside that you are the better person, and not like the person who has treated you.

[Jackie L]

Check out www.salary.com

[Bill]

Hi Kevin,
I am ABOC with 13 years experience. I reside in Texas, which isnt a licenesed state. for what you do, in a licensed state.. in my opinion, you are underpaid! Its very discouraging to hear that even in licensed states that people that do what we do are still not appreciated....sometimes I wonder why we even do it. If it werent so far into the game, I would run for an oportunity to change my carrer. I currently make 15.00 an hour in an unlicensed state. I would recomend you keep this in mind when you become an OD.
Bill

[cybervisionguy]

While there is some good advice here, worth what you pay for it.
I would say this, have you asked your employer how you can mutually gain from your employment? What might you do that makes them more money? How can that benefit you?
I am about to ask that of my employer, we currently do not have much of a commission structure, I want a piece of the pie. I am going to ask how much he thinks I can make there, can I be comfortable or do I need to sell insurance or cars?
How can I make say, $60,000 or $80,000?
Maybe it's time for me to move on if he can't see that.

Good Luck!

[LaurieC]

KEVIN88GT said:
As far as becoming an optician, I would have to go to school for it and since i'm an undegraduate in college that would be pretty much impossible....and even if i did.....i'd STILL be making the same money....

Kevin, a Licensed Optician in you area would make considerably more money than that, starting range of 40K.

[harry a saake]

:D Kevin, some thoughts after reading all these replies. These are my thoughts after 35 years in this business.
.....Your right , never ask or get into a discussion with another employee about wages. It may not be illegal, its usually against most company policies with an automatic termination. What it will accomplish is very ill feelings amongst the employees. I had that happen to me when i was assistant manager at B&L in Newburgh , NY, back in 1970. The hourly employees got into it about that , and when they found out they were not all making the same, we had to deal with it.
.....As far as your wages go, i think your going to find that a lot of what you get paid depends on what you can produce in sales, as obviously this is where the money comes from. One of the reasons i make as much as i do is, i produce a lot of sales and money per year for the company i work for. Now i notice you have mentioned that you do a lot of lab work, and that is fine except while you are doing that you are not making sales. Now you may be in a place that requires that, and if thats the case, i would find a place, where i could do sales only, such as i do. This way you can produce a verifiable record to some one else on what you can produce.
.....Employers sometimes dont think or really have a tangible way of seeing the results of someones good labwork, but they can sure see what you have sold and that will always be a good lever for you. I would interview in as many places as i could and be very specific about what you want to do. Someone out there is always looking for someone who can produce sales and generate money, and that is your opportunity.