Digital Pal's, where's the wow factor

[ripper]

I have recently advised my staff to back off on our promotion of digital lenses, I am more careful about the patients we recommend digital lenses to. We have patients who find them better, but for the price difference, the wow factor is not significant enough, some patients who return for adjustments always refer to their new specs as the most expensive they have ever purchased, and i feel they have buyer's remorse, and there is the possibility we could lose the patients next time they purchase specs. Anybody else experience this??

[Fezz]

What *Digital* PAl are you using?

[DoubleD]

I have to say I have been stand-offish on "digital" lenses, but I am offering to patients that will notice the difference.
I just got into the Ideal PAL (hi- cyl one eye, plano other, 250add ou), and I have to say WOW for most of it. My definity short worked great, but I was sensitive to periferal vision outdoors; NOT with the IDEAL.
After 37 years of working with all the lens developments (on all sides of business), I beleive technology is finally providing what we need.
Price wise, bi-aspheric digitally processed designs are a tough tool to bring out, but they are worth it.
Denny

[fagin]

I am more careful about the patients we recommend digital lenses to.

Correct. You have identified the issue here, continue with this regime of being more selective to whom you recommend this technology and you'll do just fine.

[sharpstick777]

I switched to ALL digital in Progressives over 4 years ago and it was huge boon to business. In fact when I left a few months ago sales were up even in this economy 13% for 2009 YTD. The practice I managed went from $180K to almost $1 Million a year due in part to digital lenses in less than three years.

I used the Definity and the Auto II mostly. I could get them less than any grinders cost, so it wasn't a cost issue. If you are paying more for your digital lenses than grinders then you are using the wrong lab. I can't post prices here but if you PM I can give you some labs.

Among the lenses I tried personally the Auto II had the widest distance, the Definity had the widest reading and computer. I fit both accordingly to a patients life style. Since we had a lot of Boeing engineers and Microsoft Programers, the Definity was most popular lens. I used the Physio 360 on occaision too.

I had over 1700 Progressive fits in 4 years, with a total of 18 non-adapts in that time. 7 of those were low power, low add, first time glasses wearers and emerging presbyopes. 1 was an engineer who could see clearly but hated how building plans bent. A large portion were previous progressive non-adapts who came in specifically because we offered progressives that worked.

We had more referals than i can count because patients could see so well. My ex-roomate (high minus, mid-cyl) put on the Definity and said it was the best he could see since he was a kid. It was referal, after referal, after referal.

Digital lenses still require a skilled fit, a true and good digital design (not a old grinder lens with digital processing) and a good Rx. The wow factor will come.

[bigeyejim]

I just recently put on a Zeiss Individual, and believe it or not - was Wowed! I had tried it before, but the frame wasn't a good fit for me, so I shelved it. Same way with the Sola HDV, nothing special. The Individual seemed to blow me away, with the clarity and detail. Like looking at a high def TV.

I haven't tried the Definity yet, but my lab which just got bought out by Essilor really wants me to try it (shock).

I have a Physio 360 which is ok, but no big deal - doesn't offer anything more than my plain jane GT2.

I am trying as well to pick a Digital design that really works and I don't have to sell for $500.00. The Individual is more expensive that everything else, but as said earlier, there are labs who are very competitive.

I also want to stay away from the lenses that don't start from a SV blank. Physio, Definity, GT2 3D, still have the design on the front if I'm not mistaken. Individual, Auto, iD, and Unique all start as a SV blank and then they put the design and power into it. I have yet to try a Unique.

I found a lab with a hecuva price on Uniques, which will make this lens very competitive.

We all have to have something in the stable, though, because the guy down the street does for sure! :)

[obxeyeguy]

In fact when I left a few months ago sales were up even in this economy 13% for 2009 YTD. The practice I managed went from $180K to almost $1 Million a year due in part to digital lenses in less than three years.

So, this past year sales are up only 13%, but the previous three years increase total was over 500%? All this from selling Definity and Auto II? What your selling here, I am not buying.

Oh, I'm sorry, I just saw the "in part" phrase. Let me guess, the other factors were maybe adding 3 or 4 doctor days?

[sharpstick777]

I also want to stay away from the lenses that don't start from a SV blank. Physio, Definity, GT2 3D, still have the design on the front if I'm not mistaken. Individual, Auto, iD, and Unique all start as a SV blank and then they put the design and power into it. I have yet to try a Unique.

The Definity has only a partial add on the front (its patented, but actually designed by Shamir for J&J). This way you can offset the counter curves of the both adds, increasing the width of the intermediate. Its why the width of the Definity intermediate is all the way across the lens in many cases.

[sharpstick777]

So, this past year sales are up only 13%, but the previous three years increase total was over 500%? All this from selling Definity and Auto II? What your selling here, I am not buying.

Oh, I'm sorry, I just saw the "in part" phrase. Let me guess, the other factors were maybe adding 3 or 4 doctor days?

...LAVISH customer service. It was only 2 Doctors, with both working 3 days a week. Our capture rate was over 70%, and we sold a lot of eyewear on outside RX's. We had people come a long way to buy glasses from us. Our A/R sales over 80% (darn kids and sunglasses), and 97% of our multifocals were Progressives.

[bigeyejim]

The Definity has only a partial add on the front (its patented, but actually designed by Shamir for J&J). This way you can offset the counter curves of the both adds, increasing the width of the intermediate. Its why the width of the Definity intermediate is all the way across the lens in many cases.

I'm aware of the science, and I think that's why Essilor bought them, to get a digital lens....As well as the pending Kodak purchase to get them a true Freeform, "made from a puck" lens.

I also am happy with the fact that Definity comes in Trivex, which I personally love!

I have used a few of them for drill mounts, but I guess I will have to try one myself to get that middle tier covered.

Oh, and on Customer Service - We have very few RXs walk, and we even have opticans from other shops in town refer to us for "cool frames." We are in a 12K pop. town, but draw from about a 35K rural market. It can be done!

[Barry Santini]

The Term "Digital Lenses", although first applied to progressives, does *not* mean progressive designs only.

This has been a tremendous misstep by our industry.

Sure, progressive fitting is where the big *fire* was and is, but *all* progressives suffer with respect to SV in the periphery.

Try some DS FF SV. Or better, try the Essilor DS FT 28 bifocal.

Sit back and wait for the WOW, especially if they have any significant cyl (>0.50D)

FWIW

Barry

[Chris Ryser]

...

Our A/R sales over 80% (darn kids and sunglasses), and 97% of our multifocals were Progressives.

Questions.......................... the statistics show that in the US, AR is about 21% of all sales and progressives are getting close to 50%, at 48% of all sales on multifocals.

How come that every time an Opti Board poster writes about his own sales they are always between 80 to 100% for either one or both, AR and Progressives.

Has the Opti Board only SUPER OPTICAL SALES Opticians that post in the forum, or are all the others so intimidated that they don't dare talking about a lousy average. ?

[bigeyejim]

the term "digital lenses", although first applied to progressives, does *not* mean progressive designs only.

This has been a tremendous misstep by our industry.

YES, YES AND MORE YES!

If I had a nickel for every time a lens rep, er, Business Development Consultant, came in and said, "No this is a freeform, theirs is digital, but we have digital and it's better than their HDV, and 360 isn't really freeform, and wavefront this and blah blah blah..." (By the way, that was a combination of all the brands talkin!).

The manufacturers themselves in my opinion have muddied the water quite a bit. I went from a year of confusion to finally getting the big picture!

Barry, thanks for the info, because even though I knew that 360 Bifocals existed, I haven't thought about them much. Have to delve more into that.

I think that is also why the freeform makers (from a SV puck) are pushing their SV lenses. Zeiss and Shamir have ads out, and it makes sense, especially since they have the machines at their disposal.

[sharpstick777]

I'm aware of the science, and I think that's why Essilor bought them, to get a digital lens....!

J&J not only developed a great lens, they developed the manufacturing technology to make it cost affective. The old Ziess spot drill technology took forever. J&J took aerospace C&C lathing, applied to plastic, and sped up the speed so it took only 12 minutes to make a pair of lenses (excluding cooling of the blocks).

Oh, and on Customer Service - We have very few RXs walk, and we even have opticans from other shops in town refer to us for "cool frames." We are in a 12K pop. town, but draw from about a 35K rural market. It can be done!

Great Job! Yes it can.

[sharpstick777]

I can't speak for others. As far as sales go we take time in both the exam room, and the dispensery to explain A/R to every single patient, every single time. In the NW with our rain, its a nightmare to drive without A/R. When I explain that the A/R now is actually harder than the lens, they buy without regret.

We also go straight to Progressives vs. any other multifocal option. We still get a few patients who still like thier straight tops. I even had one that switched back to a ST, he thought he hated his progressives but a week later wanted his progressives back.

Just like glass, I don't offer ST lenses as an option. Only in rare cases do I believe a person is better off in a straight top, and I have listed those in another thread. There are few instances where a straight top shines.

I think too many people are using cheap A/R's so they lack the confidence to dispense or offer them to every patient. Take the cheap A/R's off the table. Same with Progressives. Offer only the best.

I think too many opticians are afraid of how patients will respond to price, so they sell mediocre products and get mediocre results.

Questions.......................... the statistics show that in the US, AR is about 21% of all sales and progressives are getting close to 50%, at 48% of all sales on multifocals.

How come that every time an Opti Board poster writes about his own sales they are always between 80 to 100% for either one or both, AR and Progressives.

Has the Opti Board only SUPER OPTICAL SALES Opticians that post in the forum, or are all the others so intimidated that they don't dare talking about a lousy average. ?

[Striderswife]

Questions.......................... the statistics show that in the US, AR is about 21% of all sales and progressives are getting close to 50%, at 48% of all sales on multifocals.

How come that every time an Opti Board poster writes about his own sales they are always between 80 to 100% for either one or both, AR and Progressives.

Has the Opti Board only SUPER OPTICAL SALES Opticians that post in the forum, or are all the others so intimidated that they don't dare talking about a lousy average. ?

When my Essilor rep comes to see me, his report shows we have an average of about 70% A/R jobs. It's just something I recommend to everyone, regardless of age or purpose of the glasses, unless it's sunglasses (and then we do mostly polarized). It's a treatment I believe in, and am kind of passionate about. It's something people just need, and we are able to get that across to our patients. I'm hoping eventually all lenses will just automatically come with A/R.

[For-Life]

Questions.......................... the statistics show that in the US, AR is about 21% of all sales and progressives are getting close to 50%, at 48% of all sales on multifocals.

How come that every time an Opti Board poster writes about his own sales they are always between 80 to 100% for either one or both, AR and Progressives.

Has the Opti Board only SUPER OPTICAL SALES Opticians that post in the forum, or are all the others so intimidated that they don't dare talking about a lousy average. ?

Do you really think that OB posters represent the typical optician?

I think that most OBers are exceptional compared to most. How many people in their jobs go to forums about their jobs during their spare time to improve themselves? Not many.

Edit - i do not know what my former store's numbers are now. I know when I left it was around 60%. But obviously AR is not sold on welfare or few Aboriginal jobs. It is also not sold on many readers, and at the time, on sunglasses. Now I know they do a lot more backside AR on sunwear.

And we did a lot of sunwear.

[Mr. Finney]

When I explain that the A/R now is actually harder than the lens

Please explain, thanks!

[For-Life]

Please explain, thanks!

The surface of some top level ARs are actually stronger than the surface of some lens materials. Think of Poly. One reason why AR crazes in the edging process is because the surface of the AR is harder than the surface of the poly. So it is like squishing an oreo cookie together

[Chris Ryser]

When my Essilor rep comes to see me, his report shows we have an average of about 70% A/R jobs.

Your Essilor rep was or is right....................but was also lying to you. He was twisting the truth for his purpose.

And here is more of real fact :

“Current statistics show that anti-reflective usage in the United States is at 34 percent, far lower than the 70+ percent usage in Europe and 98 percent in Japan,” said John Quinn, chairman of The Vision Council’s Anti-Reflective Steering Committee. “Anti-reflective lenses can provide better vision. We are pleased to be able to assist APME and optical educators across the country so that the eye care professionals of the future fully understand the visual benefits of prescribing these lenses.”

Excert from: http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35363

I will have to find the real statistics again to verify.

[Chris Ryser]

The surface of some top level ARs are actually stronger than the surface of some lens materials.

Since all AR coatings applied under vacuum are made with the same material which is SIO2 (silicon dioxide = glass) as the main ingredient, the hardness has nothing to do with top level AR.

You could use that expression for more expensive, longer lasting, more brainwash advertising, or simply said, they are all on the top of the lens and then they would all be top level without exception.

[Mr. Finney]

The surface of some top level ARs are actually stronger than the surface of some lens materials. Think of Poly. One reason why AR crazes in the edging process is because the surface of the AR is harder than the surface of the poly. So it is like squishing an oreo cookie together

Would that be why we have such a hard time edging Crizal Avance' lenses? And which top-level ARs are you talking about?

[For-Life]

Since all AR coatings applied under vacuum are made with the same material which is SIO2 (silicon dioxide = glass) as the main ingredient, the hardness has nothing to do with top level AR.

You could use that expression for more expensive, longer lasting, more brainwash advertising, or simply said, they are all on the top of the lens and then they would all be top level without exception.

Sorry Chris. Has to do with the hard coat. WHO CARES??? If the AR has a top level hard coat built in, why give the client a science lecture?

And Chris, let's not go there with the brainwashing again. We have gone over this a million times and I do not feel like getting into it with you once more.

[For-Life]

Would that be why we have such a hard time edging Crizal Avance' lenses? And which top-level ARs are you talking about?

Could be. Crizal, Carat, Teflon, ect, can be a real pain to edge poly if you do not have the proper machine. The vice grips too hard and puts on too much pressure, therefore, separating the coating from the lens.

[Chris Ryser]

Would that be why we have such a hard time edging Crizal Avance' lenses? And which top-level ARs are you talking about?

I just answered this question in above post. The AR coat is very hard an brittle.
Your problem of edging them come from the slippery slick coat that has been applied over the AR. Your lenses are so slick that they turn off axis in your edger.