I notice that it is very popular to put down Essilor here. But people seem to like/love Zeiss and Hoya. Why are Zeiss and Hoya okay but not Essilor?
I notice that it is very popular to put down Essilor here. But people seem to like/love Zeiss and Hoya. Why are Zeiss and Hoya okay but not Essilor?
It's always popular to take on the most powerfull. Especially if you are an outsider. Essilor has relatively expensive product, and very powerfull advertising which many see as an attempt to get the buying public to request or insist on thier product.
Especially those who are attempting to either have higher profit margins or present themselves to the economy market resent this pressure.
Many don't like seeing the local/regional labs that their personal friends owned and managed disappear.
Some don't like seeing the lens producers becomeing so automated and centralized that once cannot begin to want to enter this market in a small way.
Many of us hate to see our suppliers advertising direct to the consumer, especially in light of this is what destroyed the contact lens industry from what it was.
Also many of us technician types since the beginning of time mistakenly believe that by running down the competion it somehow makes us seem to be better.
Chip
Happy, do you consider Lux your *partner* or your compitition? Essilor is heading down the same road.
I consider Lux my compitition but I don't understand what you mean about Essilor heading down the same road. Are they opening an optical chain?Originally Posted by optical24/7
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Dear happy,
Talk is cheap! Anonymous talk is even cheaper than that! You will notice most of the Essilor rants come from those who neglect ( for whatever reason ) to sign their posts, and they post under psudonyms. If someone refuses to sign their rant with their true name, I would discount the post out of hand. This really makes a strong case for requiring members to register with their real names. It that were the case, most of what you now see would disappear, as would the cheap shots you see on occasion. Over all manners would improve measureably.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Yes they are joining with an online chain.I consider Lux my compitition but I don't understand what you mean about Essilor heading down the same road. Are they opening an optical chain?
-Harry Chilinguerian
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Some of us are independent business owners and our customers look here for answers like we do. I don't like talking shop in front of my customers, and when I first starting posting here, I realized there are often more "guests" than members here.
I put everything I posted here into a signed e-mail, and sent it to my essilor rep. He didn't bother replying, but he did forward it up the chain, and I got a call from someone w/in essilor that wanted to discuss my thoughts. I am not hiding behind a name when I am talking to someone to whom it matters.
I did the same thing w/WM and Marchon. I don't hate people or companies. I don't agree w/ some of their philosophies, but it's a free world.
Oh, and I know of at least 5 essilor (insider) folks that are regulars here, and they don't see them using their real names (w/the exception of two reps) here either, so that goes both ways.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
To avoid misunderstanding my position please know that I didn't mean to imply this was a one way thing. I only used the example of the "Essilor rants" to illustrate why anonymous posters come down so hard on some companies. The subject of the thread is Why do some hate Essilor. Some use anonyimity because they can pretty much say what they want without any proof or substantiation,and they do so without fear of recrimination, from either their peers here, or the companies involved.In my opinion this is patently unfair. If you want to slam a company at least have the courage of your convictions to sign what you write.
Conversely if you are employed by a company and wish to defend it, sign that post as well.The companies watch these forums, of that I am sure.Most choose not to post for obvious reasons.After reading some of these threads, who among us can blame them for that???
I've always maintained that if you have a problem with a company, take it up with them directly by going to whomever can solve the problem and getting it done. It has no business on these pages, nor do the unsubstantiated claims of cry babies or "GIANT KILLERS" who think its acceptable to do this anonymously.
If everyone posted under their own names, the quality of what is written on these pages would improve, the moderators would have little to do, and Optiboard would become a more courteous place to hang around.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
I just notice that whenever someone mentions using Essilor lenses or coating people always say why are you using Essilor? Why aren't you using Zeiss or Hoya or Shamir? I still don't get what people have against them that they don't have against these other big companies.
Hi Harry, which online chain you are refering to ?
Do they sell frames as well as optical lens ?
Harry refers to: http://www.framesdirect.com/
In some other thread there have been press releases posted to the fact.
Essilor has also bought majority interest in an optical supply company that also operates a direct to consumer website, bypassing the retailers. Pres releases are also posted on a few current threads.
Harry does have a good point here and I have to agree....................however that would still not change the facts and only do something to the BS.
It is so easy to follow an agressive company's image, whose shares are traded publicly, they continuously put out press releases, either on their websites or through on wire press release agencies. This has then become public property and should be open for discussion.
There is no difference between the optical giant's, only that one is more visibly agressive than the others, while the others do the same thing but more behind the scene, and there have been plenty of posts over the years on Optiboard that you have all the facts to a clear picture what is happening to this profession................most probably extinction. And most probably will happen during my lifetime.
Best comparison would be the oil companies who ended up taking over all the retail outlets and converted their owner operated service stations to corporation owned and operated self service outlets.
And the start is being made now............largest corporation teaming up now with framesdirect.com and having taken over a supplier with a direct to public sales.
What is the first thing the oil companies took out of the service stations?
Service.
What did they turn them into?
Convenience stores.
But, this isn't the beginning. This is just another step in the process. The groundwork has been set after years and years of preparation. We have loyally support and lent credibility to the brand(s) and now it's coming back to haunt us.
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
How about if you have suddenly found out after selling brand names for years......................that there non brand products on the market that are as good and fahionable, technically as well as designs, and they are a liittle cheaper.
The optician is the specialist dispensing these item and he is the one that is realising he has been conned into selling these items for the last few years and now is offering as good as before quality that does not carry the heavy burden of advertising cost, which raises the final selling price.
The big problem is the ability to make a living. If you talk to any "owner" of a Convenience store, you will quickly find out that it is very hard eek out a living. You essentially owe your soul to the company store.
Hopefully, in the future, we will be able to get a "fitting" fee from Essilor for spending an hour with a patient:hammer:
I use very few Essilor progressive lenses and none of their AR coatings, but they are my financial friend! They do me no harm in charging so much for their coatings and lenses. I use 100% non glare and pay 1/3 of what they charge for for what is a very similiar coating. We have zero isssues with coatings and have sold this one for over 3 years. How else can I make some money on coatings than by paying much less for a great product. It is done on the same equipment in the same room.
The cost of Varilux lenses allow me to offer true free form and pay less than a standard Varilux product; that helps me compete and keeps the financial bar higher!
What would happen if Essilor - as the market leader- dropped the prices by 50%; would that help you or hurt you!
I maintain in the end it would kill all of us and make all glasses buy 1 get one free!
Just another point of view from a guy who used to work for them and never dreamed that all of lens vendors would be owned by them today. I use alot of Transitions from Pech Optical and Signet Armorlite that also get my polarized blanks from Specialty Lens or Intercast; ALL OF THEM ARE OR WILL BE OWNED BY ESSILOR SOON!
None of the other companies have stepped up and offers compelling reasons to support their product offerings. They are all opening retail around the world and this seems to be the future.
I SUPPORT ANY ORGANIZATION THAT PROMOTES QUALITY PRODUCTS AND DELIVERS WHILE HOLD SOME PRICING INTEGRITY. (I KNOW THAT IS A ROUGH ONE TO SWALLOW!)
Craig
Get your polarized products from Younger! Essilor hasn't quite gotten Armorlite yet, so you could use Instashades in the meantime.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
I've heard through the rumor mill, that the sale of Signet to Essilor has been totally blocked by the SEC or FTC or someone similar.
I have been contributing to this site for years, and YES I am an "Essilor" employee.. I am a G.M. for Southern-Chattanooga, one of those labs that are part of ELOA (Essilor labs of America) ... but I think you guys might be interested about how it really works..
All divisions of Essilor compete amongst ourselves constantly, some of my most aggressive competitors are ELOA and partner labs.. I have to PAY Essilor for all my inventory same as everyone else because the lens division has a separate budget than I do, I have to pay for my coating same as any other wholesale lab.. as an example the "coating division" sold an AR coating unit to one of my main competitors right down the road and I can not get one:angry:
When you work for Essilor you get your P&L and than more or less you run it like it is your own stand alone lab.. you have to reach goals (net sales and PBT) but what you do and how you get there , well you are pretty much on your own and you better know how to run a lab.. so are we "Essilor" more expensive as some have stated? Nope, my prices are some of the lowest in the region compared to other labs, I have to answer for the numbers, so if I want to lower my prices than volume is king to make it up, same as any wholesale lab out there..I sell Signet, Hoya, Younger and Shamir product like any other lab as well as Essilor product, so guess what, as a "wholesale lab" you are competing with everyone else so it is not like we have high prices only...you charged more than everyone else, you are not going to survive in a wholesale market.
We may fall under the "Essilor" name but we are all , more or less, stand alone as any independent lab, and ask any of the 18 people who work for me who they work for and they will all answer with my name and Southern- Chattanooga..99% of them never have to deal with the guys in Dallas.
I run this lab as I did my own, balance the pricing with high quality, fast turn time and great customer service and you thrive.. high prices, cookie cutter production and big brother attitude, you die on the vine.;)
I know it is easy to point the finger and just say "Essilor" like it is some bunch of people in a room pulling the strings, but it does not work that way..
Bash me if ya like, but as the G.M of Southern-Chattanooga I am proud of my lab and the quality of work we do.. and if you talk to any of the other GM's they will all have the same attitude..and if they do not? don't expect them to stay long :D
Jeff " been around the block a time or 20" Trail
I think Essilor will keep wholesale lens prices high to independents.
I think Essilor will keep lens stock to big retailers low.
I think Essilor will keep lens stock to it's online buddies low.
Same old, same old.
If the mass merchants and optical chains didn't keep the prices decent, then we'd have a race to the bottom. Essilor doesn't probably affect that dynamic one way or another.
I just don't like them demeaning the public interest by taking the "P" out of professional care, and then spraying it on our backs telling us it's raining.
Jeff, you're well-respected around here.
How about a little pushback to the higher-ups re: this new FramesDirect.com partnership?
Hi Jeff, I've read your posts in the past and very much repspect your knowledge in the field.
Unfortunatly for you and the other Lab Managers, the "P" in your "P&L" is being used to compete directly with your customers for the end user.
Every business I have every run has it's own P&L, every employee I hire has an invisible P&L counter over thier head too... but dont confuse the issue the "P" is still mine in the end.
Is this really a serious question? Is this your first day or somthing? Just curious. Gary
[QUOTE=Jeff Trail;303679]I sell Signet, Hoya, Younger and Shamir product like any other lab as well as Essilor product, so guess what, as a "wholesale lab" you are competing with everyone else so it is not like we have high prices only
Years ago, I had a fine relationship with Sierra Optical. I used Essilor product as my PAL's of choice. Sierra became Hoya San Diego, and suddenly I couldn't get Essilor product. Essilor, for their own reasons, told me to switch labs or else. This more than figurative, my Varilux rep at that time said as much. You can get Hoya, but Hoya was cut off from Varilux. I didn't, and don't, like being told with whom to do business. All this was a while ago, but there is no statute of limitations on insulting ultimatums.
Jeff,
We missed you!!!!!!!
:cheers:
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