Frames made of Grilamid??

[EyeFitWell]

Has anyone heard of this material?
I apparently damaged a Gucci 2954 yesterday while adjusting. I heated the temples and bent them down like always on this lady's brand new beautiful red frame. I didn't notice it at the time, but she came back in today and pointed out whitish spots where I'd bent the temples (like the white plastic turns when you're breaking it). The material felt like any old zyl so I didn't expect to have any trouble handling it, but obviously I need to learn more about this frame material!

Anyone know what it is?
How do you adjust it w/o damaging it? More heat? (I got them pretty hot and it was hard to bend) Less heat? Wear in as-is position?
Is it possible rubbing alcohol caused this instead of my bending? (improbable as the rubbing alcohol would have contacted the frame around the lenses much more than magically landing only on the temple at the bends)

Help me not embarass myself again!

Thanks!

[AdmiralKnight]

I've never heard of the material... but does it say "Cold Insert" on the frame? If so, it was probably the heat that did it. It always amazes me when a frame company makes a frame that's impossible to adjust...

[Fezz]

I have seen frames made of it. I seem to remember that heat was a no-no!

http://www.visioncareproducts.com/ME...244BB154937899

[DragonLensmanWV]

Heat is the enemy here. I've seen some frames made of this material shrink 8mm in size when heated.

[Fezz]

Thanks Dragon..thats what I thought I had encountered!

More info:

http://www.opticianworks.com/chapter5.html

[jameselex]

we have handled a lot of plastic frames from Marxxx, they are all "cold mount only" , really not happy with that. sometime the clear coat comes off. It's a shame for a frame selling at that price to be like that.

[finefocus]

I believe that Grilamid (a kind of nylon/plastic hybrid??) is the material of the original Eyephorics 2.5 frames. We were always able to bend endpieces for panto, retro, and tightness without trouble using a little heat. I don't think Swissflex or t2 (similar frames) use the exact same material, but I'm not certain.

[EyeFitWell]

Thanks for the replies.
The thing is, this frame isn't bending anywhere for anything without heat. It'd be easier to put a temple bend in a #2 pencil. So, does that mean I'm just not going to be able to adjust the frame for my patient? I didn't actually sell her the frame (gift from her son), but I do carry Gucci and I refuse to offer any frames which cannot be properly fit. So, I need to either get rid of the Gucci's I've got that are made of said material, or learn how to adjust them without causing distruction.
What say you?
Thanks!

[Jacqui]

Would something like hot water work better than hot air or salt??

[AWTECH]

First make sure the material is what you are told it is. I have seen many frames reported as being Grilamid, but were just another injected plastic. There are even polycarbonate injected frames.

Grilamid is a trade name for a polyamid made by EMS of Switzerland.

You can heat it without a problem, just like any material you have to learn how hot to get it so it won't distort.

ANOTHER BIG POTENTIAL PROBLEM WITH THIS MATERIAL:

Polycarbonate lens, with these polyamids and alcohol can cause the frame to crack. It is a chemical reaction with the three that causes this. DO NOT USE ALCOHOL with a polyamid.

http://www.emsgrivory.com/

[chip anderson]

Does anyone else think that manufacturers have an obligation to tell us how to use and work with new inovative materials and devises when they trust them upon us?
Preferably detailed descriptions and instructions, including what the material is, what temperatures it can stand and requires, what adhesives and sovents can and cannot be used with it.
And how to assemble and disassemble new devises?
Or do we not matter now that we have become just salespeople?

Chip

[Deleted1234]

..

[bob_f_aboc]

This is a great idea, we too here at Pech Optical see a huge need for the information Chip lists' above. If we could add one feature to Chips' list it would be a digital / CAD Shape file of the frames lens shape; this way we could load into our edgers the perfect frame shape directly from the manufacturer.
Back to the original topic. One way to "limit" the amount of adjustment needed after inserting lenses into a frame (zyl's especially) is to match the Rx Lenses base curve to that of the frames eyewire. I must also add that an Incline beveled edge from a 5 axis edger also plays a big role in achieving perfect lens to frame fit with minimal adjustment when dealing with zyl frames (especially wrap eyewear). Kevin.

*cough*MEI*cough*

[AWTECH]

*cough*MEI*cough*

What do you mean?

[KStraker]

Thanks for the replies.
or learn how to adjust them without causing distruction.
What say you?
Thanks!

Many frames are made from Grilamid and other similar materials. Use less heat and you should be fine. Either that, or edge the lenses a little smaller. Personally, I've never had a problem with it and I'm using a bead pan. Have you tried to repolish the frame on a buffer wheel?

[Chris Ryser]

This is a plastic material for injection moulding, which means mass production. See it all at http://www.grilamid.com/



Optics - Ophthalmic glasses - Transparent PA 9 Products found.


Grilamid TR 55
Grilamid TR Grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic, cycloaliphatic and aromatic blocks.

Grilamid TR 55 LX
Grilamid TR grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic and cycloaliphatic blocks. Grilamid TR 55 LX is characterised by its good chemical and stress-crack resistance

Grilamid TR 55 LY
Grilamid TR grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic and cycloaliphatic blocks. Grilamid TR 55 LY is characterised by its good chemical and stress-crack resistance

Grilamid TR 55 LZ
Grilamid TR grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic and cycloaliphatic blocks. Grilamid TR 55 LZ is characterised by its good chemical and stress-crack resistance and very high impact strength

Grilamid TR 55 natural 6322
Grilamid TR Grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic, cycloaliphatic and aromatic blocks. Grilamid TR 55 natural 6322 contains a processing aid to improve the flow- and demoulding properties.

Grilamid TR 90
Grilamid TR grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic and cycloaliphatic blocks. Grilamid TR 90 is characterised by its extremely good UV resistance, high chemical and stress crack resistance as well as high impact strength.

Grilamid TR 90 LS
Grilamid TR 90 LS has similar properties to Grilamid TR90. It contains a flow and mould release additive which aids processing for parts having long flow paths or in tools with long cores e.g filter bowls.

Grilamid TR 90 LX
Grilamid TR grades are transparent thermoplastic polyamides based on aliphatic and cycloaliphatic blocks. Grilamid TR 90 LX is characterised by its extremely good UV resistance, high chemical and stress crack resistance as well as high impact strength.

Grilamid TR 90 UV
Grilamid TR 90 UV is a water clear transparent polyamide with outstanding weathering stability and excelent chemical resistance.

[Fezz]

I believe that Sutro Vision may have frames made with this material.

http://www.sutrovision.com/

Contact a fellow Optiboarder, Sutro, to ask for advice!

[Chris Ryser]

http://www.suncloudoptics.com/Frame_Technology.html


http://www.720-armour.com/_english/0...l.php?MainID=2


http://www.spotters.com.au/Spotters-...Materials.html

[sutrovision]

I know, holy 4 months too late. But i just read this. If anyone is still interested....

Yes, we at Sutro use Grilamid TR90. (there are a bunch of different versions all with slightly different characteristics as Chris pointed out. I think that most people who use it use the TR90) It is a great material for sun as it is UV and heat resistant.

What that means is that the material wont oxidize over time and get flaky, nor will the frame warp when left on something like a hot dashboard.

Adjustment with heat are fine, it just takes a little more heat than you would use with Zyl.

A few other good things are that its hypoallergenic, chemical resistant, stress crack resistant and all around tough.

[Chris Ryser]

Sutro...........I just added your website to my listing at http://optochemicals.com/web_listing.htm, your Alexa traffic rating is 5,415,387.

[Mr. Finney]

Is grilamid what the older RayBan Daddy-O frames are made of?

[Fezz]

Is grilamid what the older RayBan Daddy-O frames are made of?

I am not sure.

I don't think that any contact lenses are made of it either, are they?

;):cheers::cheers::cheers::D

[Mr. Finney]

I am not sure.

I don't think that any contact lenses are made of it either, are they?

;):cheers::cheers::cheers::D

At first I was like, "why would contacts be made out of that?" Guess I'd better get busy.:D

[Lelarep]

...ANOTHER BIG POTENTIAL PROBLEM WITH THIS MATERIAL:

Polycarbonate lens, with these polyamids and alcohol can cause the frame to crack. It is a chemical reaction with the three that causes this. DO NOT USE ALCOHOL with a polyamid.

http://www.emsgrivory.com/

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I was unfamiliar with TR90, not knowing about this particular feature. I just tried to clean up a frame made of this material using IPA, and the frame front literally, spontaneously, disintegrated into 6 pieces in my hands!! As you can imagine, I thought I was having a bad dream, or someone had spiked my coffee with LSD or something. I couldn't believe it! I've never encountered this before! Obviously a HUGE screw-up on my part. Just in case anyone else isn't familiar with this material, I figured it was worth a bump to pass along the warning so no one else makes this kind of horrible mistake.

Edit: Just a small correction to the OP's original message after reading up on this and figuring out exactly what happened. This reaction is not specific to polycarbonate lenses with polyamide frames. If any alcohol, IPA, etOH, methanol, etc... contacts a TR90 polyamide frame, the frame can be damaged or destroyed. The time to damage or destruction is relative to the concentration of the alcohol and the duration of contact. For a 90%+ IPA the time to complete destruction is about 20 seconds. This is only true for straight TR90 material. If the material is TR90-LX or TR90-LXS, it has been annealed and is very chemical resistant. Any concentration of alcohol at room temperature should not be able to damage an LX or LXS type TR90. TR90 is also susceptible to a number of other common household chemicals, such as consumer grade acetone and bleach. If anyone is interested in reading up more about it you can find out more information by using TR90's abbreviated chemical name, PAMACM12.

[AngeHamm]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I was unfamiliar with TR90, not knowing about this particular feature. I just tried to clean up a frame made of this material using IPA, and the frame front literally, spontaneously, disintegrated into 6 pieces in my hands!! As you can imagine, I thought I was having a bad dream, or someone had spiked my coffee with LSD or something. I couldn't believe it! I've never encountered this before! Obviously a HUGE screw-up on my part. Just in case anyone else isn't familiar with this material, I figured it was worth a bump to pass along the warning so no one else makes this kind of horrible mistake.

Edit: Just a small correction to the OP's original message after reading up on this and figuring out exactly what happened. This reaction is not specific to polycarbonate lenses with polyamide frames. If any alcohol, IPA, etOH, methanol, etc... contacts a TR90 polyamide frame, the frame can be damaged or destroyed. The time to damage or destruction is relative to the concentration of the alcohol and the duration of contact. For a 90%+ IPA the time to complete destruction is about 20 seconds. This is only true for straight TR90 material. If the material is TR90-LX or TR90-LXS, it has been annealed and is very chemical resistant. Any concentration of alcohol at room temperature should not be able to damage an LX or LXS type TR90. TR90 is also susceptible to a number of other common household chemicals, such as consumer grade acetone and bleach. If anyone is interested in reading up more about it you can find out more information by using TR90's abbreviated chemical name, PAMACM12.

Whooooaaaaa. Now I understand why my Clearvision rep told me not to clean their cold insert frames with alcohol. (FWIW, I ignored him since I had been using alcohol for final cleaning on CV's cold insert frames for years with no problems. Must be the LX or LXS variety.)