Speak for yourself. This debate isn't about fair wages and equality; it's about coming out from under the rock and stepping up to the plate.Originally Posted by LandLord
The last thing we need right now is a union.
What we need is a real association...one with a strong voice, courage and takes ACTION. We are batting 0 for 3.
Yeah, I never once brought up wage increases. Actually, from what I have seen, Ontario Opticians get compensated well. I talked about competition law and online business.
WE are still waiting for the specifics .... anytime now .
Is laryngitis spreading ? Did Godin33 drink the koolaid ?
Here's a link to some of the answers you seek.... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...405&topic=7810
lol
Wow! You Canadians are a feisty bunch! :D
Jana Lewis
ABOC , NCLE
A fine quotation is a diamond on the finger of a man of wit, and a pebble in the hand of a fool.
Joseph Roux
Thanks! ;)
Sorry guys!
I got a little busy over the last couple of days.......
Again, I want to stress......I don't work for, nor do I volunteer for the OOA........
At the Last Inside Optics show I attended, Ali struck a chord, he got me wondering......why doesn't the OOA have more support......
Thats basically why I wanted to start this Thread...... to start talking about a membership drive........ why should you join........ why won't you join........
I thought this would be a good way to get things out in the open.......... to show the Association what we need as Opticians....... and to show the Association who we want representing us.........
I'll be honest with all of you........I'm slightly disappointed. Not in the way this Thread has gone, but in the fact that the Association hasn't given any indication as to what they'll do with more support......
I had an interesting dinner the other night. Went to my parent's house. They own an optical store and my father is an optician. I asked him if he is still a member, which he is. I asked him what they do for his membership. We had a similar debate to what we have had here.
Less pettiness though, to be honest
All the OOA has to do is...
1. Take off the furry lion's costume and pop a courage pill.
2. Chew on a Fisherman's Friend to get their voice back that has been silent for so long.
3. Take the cotton out of their ears.
4. Bleach the rose coloured tint from their eyewear.
5. Get out of bed with the COO.
6. Recognize that they are a professional organization and their main purpose is to represent its' professional members.
7. Recognize that their members have lost faith and that enrollment is declining.
8. Acknowledge to their members the important issues and illegal activity at hand.
9. Develop a mass communication channel (not Facebook - bush league) by sending out a regular newsletter or email to its' members communicating the status of these current issues.
10. Develop and list a detailed action plan as to how we are going to combat this and preserve our profession.
The future result of a fight can never be determined. Hopefully you win. But one thing is certain...even if you lose, you have gained the respect of your peers and your profession just for stepping up to the plate.
Along with many others I'm sure, would be obliged to step aboard that parade float.
:cheers:
I know what you mean! I too, am slightly disillusioned by the lack of communication from this group. To tell you the truth, I never really gave it a second thought; I just paid my dues and expected that my interests were taken care of. This has opened my eyes to the politics of it all.
So I said earlier that I was proud of being part of the society of eyecare professionals....then I get this fax yesterday morning...(see attachment) Seems like there's an all out war between associations. I'm thinking "Is this really what's best for our profession?" Fighting like children, pointing fingers and accusing one another of only doing it for the financial gain? Unbelievable! Now I'm really confused!
Sorry about the attachment, I can't figure out how to properly do it...so this is what it says:
URGENT BULLETINCOLLEGE OF OPTICIANS AND ONTARIO OPTICIANS ASSOCIATION SIT ON VITAL REFRACTION NEWS
At the May 20, 2009 Council meeting, the topic of refraction was brought up and discussed at some length. Apparently, the College of Opticians met with the Ministry of Health in February of 2009, almost 3 months ago, regarding refractions performed by Opticians.
Comments were made to the effect that the College of Opticians had acted unilaterally and disregarded a July 2008 letter to President Jeff Fernandes stating that the Ministry had not changed its position and that the Ban on Refraction still remains in effect. The COO had temporarily put an ‘administrative freeze’ on registering refracting Opticians until the September 2008 council meeting. The Society had brought you this information via fax broadcast last summer.
In September of 2008, council chose to ignore this advice from the Ministry and chose to resume registering refracting opticians.
In February of 2009, members of the executive met with the Ministry where they were told, in no uncertain terms, that the Ministry was not happy with the College and that they wish for the administrative freeze to be put back in place as the Ministry’s position remains unchanged. The Ministry did say that the small number of refracting opticians who already had their status could continue to refract under the Standards of Practice.
It also came to light that Ali Baddredine, the Association’s President, was aware of this situation. He acknowledged meeting with Ministry’s Policy Advisor, Abid Malik, and that he was aware that the Ministry wanted the freeze put back on refraction. What was more interesting was that Mr. Baddredine berated certain College members for demanding that the COO communicate these events to the Opticians of Ontario sooner than later.
Why haven’t the Association’s members heard from their very own President regarding these important developments and why does he chastise the College for at least taking action now and posting this information for all Opticians to see?
Within weeks of the College of Opticians unilaterally lifting the ban on refraction, the Association started offering a $2600 refraction course. In the May 20, 2009 council meeting, Mr. Baddredine also pleaded with the College to make refracting mandatory for all Opticians. Why? To sell more refracting courses? Has Mr. Baddredine put the financial interests of the National and Provincial Associations ahead of its members?
The Society remains committed to keeping you informed! More information to follow in our upcoming newsletter.
Sincerely,
Ali Khan, RO
Until such a time that Ontario opticians will be legally able to perform a refraction (if ever), there should not be any type of refracting course available to opticians by any educational college, institution or association.
Offering refraction courses before it is even approved is nothing more than a money grab and puts the cart before the horse. This type of arrogant assuming behaviour only worsens our relationships with the Ministry of Health and College of Optometrists and certainly does not help our cause.
And as far as the Khan Group's Association Society of Eyecare Professionals goes...they are self serving and have a hidden agenda so Caveat Emptor to all that support this group.
My take on this is :
(1) There is nothing wrong with learning refraction for people that want to . There is nothing wrong with anyone offering courses in refraction . There is also nothing wrong with Opticians taking courses in electricity, welding , gourmet cooking , or a thousand other things . There is nothing wrong with schools, Colleges or Universities offering courses in any subject whatsoever .
There is something wrong with discrimination and violation of the Charter of Rights . That is a big time No No !
(2) Learning refraction is more relevenat to opticians than teaching them cataract surgery techniques at seminars for continung education . Will the Ministry forbid this too ?
(3) The Ministry has no ----- right whatsoever, to tell opticians that they can not take refraction courses and they have absolutely no right to violate the Charter of Rights . In my opinion they had no right to tell opticians to refrain from refraction a few years ago .
Refraction is in the public domain and ANYONE CAN DO IT ...ANYONE . This is not something that the Ministry governs and they have overstepped their authority . The only part they can govern is "prescribing " and what can be done with the results obtained from refraction . THAT IS IT.... PERIOD !!!
Perhaps they should seek a legal opinion . I am sure Mr B can offer an opinion on this .
(4 ) Therefore, I applaud the President of the Association and COO for taking a stand of resistance against the lunacy and two facedness of an overstepping antiquated Ministry who still, in my humble opinion, owe every individual optician a sincere and individual apology for violating the Charter of Rights, which is what they did by discriminating against opticians by telling them they could not refract.
In my humble opinion , bully tactics are bully tactics .
Refraction is in the public Domain , the Ministry does not have any control over it . If they think they do then it is time they changed the legislation to reflect their wrong beliefs , in my humble opinion.
(5) Eyemanflying , would you like it if as an optician , the Ministry told you that you can not learn to fly ? Who is wrong here ? Who is right to resist and object ? Did you want someone to have some courage ? Eyeman , I think you seriously need to rethink this .
It can't be both ways .
(6) In my humble opinion , the fax letter above referred to as the Khan letter is just stirring the pot . I am not impressed with that letter , in fact I am extremely disappointed .
(7) The Ministry of Health needs a wake up call ! MAYBE THEY WOULD LIKE TO REPEAL THEIR WAGES & pensions TO LEVELs OF 25 YEARS AGO JUST LIKE THEIR OVER 25 YEAR OLD MCSS fee schedule !
Before opticians , the COO or the OOA or Khan's group , even consider any ridiculous demands re : refraction from the Ministry , they should collectively stand proud and tall together to deliver this unified message to the Ministry as an ultimatum " Roll back your own wages to 25 years ago or update the MCSS fee schedule to reflect 2009 dollars ! "
It is time we were in the drivers seat and stiffened up . No more of this roll over and play dead wimp stuff .
Are we self governing or puppets on a string ?
Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 05-23-2009 at 11:50 PM. Reason: mcss
There are different issues at hand here...let's not mix and confuse them.
I am in favour of refraction but...I don't feel we are being discriminated at all by the MOH. Let's put ourselves in the MOH's shoes for a moment...when there is already a willing and able qualified group available to perform refractions and is working quite well, what incentive is there for the MOH to change this? Why would they waste time they don't have to reinvent the wheel?
The fact of the matter is that the COO hasn't done a stellar job in selling their proposal on refraction. If they had, the MOH would be buying.
Nobody has ever said we can't enroll in a refraction course to further our knowledge. But, herein lies the problems...
When we are constantly fighting and pressuring the MOH to accept our proposal and they keep saying no, we are simply starting to annoy them.
What happens if you constantly poke a stick at a bear while it rests in it's den? At first nothing, but eventually it will become furious and strike.
Now, when two educational Colleges draft and develop a refraction course and start offering it to a group that isn't even legally entitled to perform it, this is very assuming and cocky and only worsens the potential sale to the MOH. It certainly doesn't help our cause.
We are not talking flying lessons here. Here lies the confusion...opticians aren't taking these courses simply to expand their knowledge. We are being overly optimistic and overzealous while being misled with the assumption refracting will be approved very soon. Hence the money grab from the Colleges. Here we all are while we continue to sit and wait and wait and wait...
To further worsen our cause, some opticians have already taken and passed this course; kudos to them. But, some opticians feel the law doesn't apply to them as they have already started to perform their own refractions because they are sick and tired of waiting for a decision from the MOH. Now, we are slowly all becoming another version of Bruce Bergez and beginning to cannibalize each other.
We need to sit tight, be patient and be respectful. In the meantime, refraction shouldn't even be at the top of the COO's list of objectives. Last time I checked, there were much bigger fish to fry.
Well said and atriculate and I even agreee, but I am tired of learning about subjects that have no interest to me in continuing education . I would like to learn to refract as opposed to any other subject matters out there , therefore I am not interested in idiots who would like to try to govern things that they have no jurisdiction over and who would like to violate the Charter of Rights with their discrimination and bully tactics .
Perhaps MOH should begin with finding a solution to chains that break all the rules with no respect . At least MOH should respect the pathway that is offered to educate opticians .
The path that MOH is presently following is no diffferent than the path The College of Optomerists folllowed with IRIS . MOH is no better than the College of Optometrists with their Charter violations , in my opinion.
I think it is time all parties saw some organized resistance to this nonsense.
I agree about the CE courses being boring and of no interest or value.
:cheers:
Where can I read about IRIS's specific claims of Charter violations?
Call Iris . Call BC College of Optometrists or was it Alberta ? I believe it was based on the freedom to associate aspectWhere can I read about IRIS's specific claims of Charter violations?
Where can I read about IRIS's specific claims of Charter violations?
You can call IRIS they will even put you on their mailing list to keep you abreast.
Also read http://news.therecord.com/Business/article/274888
Optometry regulations stink . It is unbelievable in this day and age . And so is the MOH for even allowing it to exist.
Now, when two educational Colleges draft and develop a refraction course and start offering it to a group that isn't even legally entitled to perform it, this is very assuming and cocky and only worsens the potential sale to the MOH. It certainly doesn't help our cause.
OK I believe that we have to keep up the interest in refracting if we are ever going to be able to do it legally. We go to the government and ask to be able to refract. They say ok but how many of your members are in a position to do it? We say zero and we look silly. For the government to ever consider refracting by opticians we have to have everything in place and members who are qualified to do it for them to seriously consider us.
Just my opinion.
Regards,
Golfnorth
Who's WE ?
While not from Ontario, I hope I can make a comment. I understand your opinion, but consider this. Did you get the right to drive and then learn how? ODs taught themsleves pharmaceuticals for nearly 20 years before ever being able to utilize them. If we are ever to be able to perform refractions, a concerted effort must be undertaken to teach our colleagues how. We cannot, in the US or Canada, get the right to do anything we are not trained to do.
Golfnorth:
You must get the perspective right on this .
(1) Refraction is in the public domain MOH can not control that . They only control what you do with the results because that would be prescribing .
(2) MOH is overstepping the Charter in my humble opinion by even suggesting we can not study refraction . The fact is that studying refraction for an optician is far more relevant than an ophthalmologist showing us surgery techniques for removing eyeballs . MOH should be more concerned that we might do surgeries after learning about these techniques in our Continuing Education classes .
(3) MOH can not have things both ways, ie. let us study surgery but not refraction
(4) MOH should be refused any cooperation whatsoever on any matters until, as a sign of good faith , they apologize to opticians for discrimination and fix the MCSS fee schedules or MOH personell agree to take a reduction in their pay and benefits to 1991 levels .
(5) MOH should fix the long outstanding court battles that are still going on and they should recieve full resistance from Opticians until they help to fix this matter .
Wrap your thoughts around this : Can MOH tell you, Golfnorth, that it is illegal for you as an optician to study golf techniques ? Would you like that ? They have no jurisdiction to do that now do they ? Golf is in the public domain and so is refraction . AND in Canada you are free to study whatever you wish .
There is nothing wrong for anybody to study anything .
So why are we as opticians being discriminated against ? Why is COO and OOA allowing it ? They can develop any course they wish . And we can take any course we wish .
Tell MOH we are long overdue for an apology . The "assuming" and "cocky" parties here are not COO , OOA , or opticians . It is MOH , they assume we will roll over and play dead whenever they bark . even if they are wrong and out of line .
ASk yourself this , why would they take this stance ? You can see the logic of what I am saying .
Just my opinion .
Last edited by Refractingoptician.com; 05-29-2009 at 11:35 AM.
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