Lifehacker articles encouraging people to buy online glasses.

[Jedi]

http://lifehacker.com/5216753/top-10...yline=true&s=i

http://lifehacker.com/5157425/save-b...glasses-online

[Johns]

Isns't it a computer type mag? Where else would you expect they'd send people?

I don't lose sleep over articles like that. I've got more things to worry about such as one of those pesky astroids hitting the earth while I sleep, possibly causing a delay in the arrival of my stimulus check!

[Chris Ryser]

There will be more and more of these type articles............that should make the smart optician's think.....................to discover a counter idea.

Also you can make changes in your own corner that will be attractive to the people looking for a good service at lower prices................not everybody wants the best, latest and most expensive and that is what everybody talks on OptiBoard about.

There are plenty people looking for good vision at prices they can afford without needing all the Bell's and whistles.

[Barry Santini]

The hidden problem here is that its obviuos that the public does not distingiush any difference in the purchase between most B&M and on-line.

That's our fault!

And the frame vendors are to blame as well.

barry

[chip anderson]

Why do we worry about the sales and other policies of the competitor?
For the most part our ranting and raving about those who have a different method of marketing than our selves serves no purpose other than perhaps to purge our liver.
There are some legitimate reasons for being aware of what the competitor is doing, but just venting is just venting.
Legitamite reasons might include:
1) To learn ways we should change our own marketing.
2) To learn ways to counter claims and promotions that others present.
3) If we are really upset enough to spend our own time and resources to perhaps legislate or otherwise change the policies of others perhaps there is some reason to oppose them. But what I have seen so far is just they do it cheaper, or in some way not as competently as I therefore they are wrong and I am right. I haven't really seen many instances where we were committed enough to commit the time, energy and money to take this approach. Mostly we just complain.
4) Many think that the way to protect ourselves (or somehow increase our personal income) is to license (or unionize for a more accurate description) ourselves which we feel will somehow keep the competitor
from doing likewise.

What difference does it make if compeditor X doesn't warrranty frames?
What do we care if thier prices are lower?
What do we care if we wear little white jackets and they wear sport shirts?
So what if product is being sold on line. Everything is sold on line.
So what if they have an actor claiming to be an ophthalmlogist stateing: "You can trust your eyes to our product?"

We have enough problems in our own ranks to correct. Our "education" is now sales and promotion having little do with skill development except in the sense that selling is a skill. Most of us don't even know all the proper terms for the different (and differing) parts of a spectacle frame. Only a handfull of us know the math (and I am very guilty on this one) in the sense that Chilly Harry and Darryl do.
Those of use that can solder, repair, properly adjust, comprehend the real advantages of a particular lens (from a visual standpoint, as opposed to the amount of commission on) over another. If we state this we are usually quoteing what we heard at the latest "educational meeting", not something we really comprehend and can state mathmaticly.
Practically none of us can disseminate the difference between newer technology and better technology.

Do we really think that complaining about compeditors somehow makes us better opticians?

Chip:hammer:

[WoodyJI]

Does anybody know of software which would allow us to sell glasses online with the same features as those sites like framesdirect.com? It might be wise to take a patient's picture in the office, and then allow them to try on frames from your board virtually at home. Then they can talk it over with their wives, be wishy-washy, etc.

It serves the customer better because now they can pick up their glasses from you—saves on shipping, and get adjustments/repairs from you. A lot of patients don't want to hang out in the dispensary after their exam, especially when they're dilated.

[jefe]

People will often work hard to find the lowest price and will deal with the related problems as they arise later. They believe they are working in their own best interests.

Independent optical retailers need to recognize that and provide a compelling reason for people to buy their glasses from their dispensary. Sometimes it's perceived quality, sometimes convenience, and sometimes price.

I never count on loyalty. It's a far better bet to depend on the capricious nature of people. I always try to provide excellent value and hope that each customer/patient will at least consider me the next time when they need eyeglasses.

[Barry Santini]

It might be wise to take a patient's picture in the office, and then allow them to try on frames from your board virtually at home. Then they can talk it over with their wives, be wishy-washy, etc

Then why-oh-why do they need you?

A lot of patients don't want to hang out in the dispensary after their exam, especially when they're dilated.

A compelling reason for *not* trying to "capture" patients!

FWIW

Barry

[Johns]

Does anybody know of software which would allow us to sell glasses online with the same features as those sites like framesdirect.com?

You're kidding right?

The fight hasn't even begun and you're throwing in the towel and JOINING them?

This reminds me of the ODs that flocked to VSP years ago, and today can't figure out how they gave their practice away to 3rd party plans.

Did you really go to school (OD right?) that long to become an online retailer?:hammer:

(If I've misconstrued your post, please forgive me,:o but from where I'm sitting, it looks like you want to be like one of "them, only w/ a storefront.)

[Chris Ryser]

(If I've misconstrued your post, please forgive me,:o but from where I'm sitting, it looks like you want to be like one of "them, only w/ a storefront.)

Interesting thought..............how many of the online outfits also have actual stores going...................or operate optical wholesale labs ????????????

[FVCCHRIS]

I'd bet if you could track a pair of those on-line glasses back to the source you'd be surprised where it leads you. After all, wouldn't those "labs" be forever free from any warranted remakes, Dr. Rx changes, and just plain unhappy patients? Wait a minute, Dr.'s? Patients? what was I thinking. None of those would be involved in those transactions, just anybody could play along.

[Chris Ryser]

I'd bet if you could track a pair of those on-line glasses back to the source you'd be surprised where it leads you.

That should not be so hard to do. I tracked one to an Optometric practise in Toronto. Another in New York next to an optician.
They all are related to some optical professionals who are making big bucks selling cheap.

[FVCCHRIS]

May I ask How you managed to track them? And, I wonder, don't those people realize they are pulling the rug out from under their own two feet? I guess there are just some people(doing the selling I mean) who don't believe prescription eyeglasses are a medical device. Are we headed to a time when anyone can write/modify their own Rx and order-up like a cheeseburger?

Also I would like to know how many of you out there, like me, are becoming outright disgusted and discouraged about the direction our industry is taking?

[Chris Ryser]

When you start looking at GOOGLE you will often get a map and then you continue looking for opticians close by.

Not any Joe Blow can make glasses and knows the sources where to get the materials. Do you really believe that this are just common people doing this ? I am convinced that these are opticians, optometrists and lab owners behind these on-line companies.

[FVCCHRIS]

When you start looking at GOOGLE you will often get a map and then you continue looking for opticians close by.

Not any Joe Blow can make glasses and knows the sources where to get the materials. Do you really believe that this are just common people doing this ? I am convinced that these are opticians, optometrists and lab owners behind these on-line companies.

Oh absolutely, and I guess that was my point. Why do these people think it's ethical to fill these orders? How does the patient deal with the inevitable problems which will arise? Are the patient/on-line customers willing to throw away a pair that doesn't work and try again? Disposable Garbage Glasses(DGG), is that where we are headed?

[HarryChiling]

May I ask How you managed to track them? And, I wonder, don't those people realize they are pulling the rug out from under their own two feet? I guess there are just some people(doing the selling I mean) who don't believe prescription eyeglasses are a medical device. Are we headed to a time when anyone can write/modify their own Rx and order-up like a cheeseburger?

Also I would like to know how many of you out there, like me, are becoming outright disgusted and discouraged about the direction our industry is taking?

WHOIS on the domain name, although you'll find lately that these creeps are starting to wise up and a majority of them have addresses that point to warehouse spaces no doubt dirt cheap spaces just used as a distribution center. My guess is from some of the lowest priced outfits and their product offerings like the 1.53 index and their lack of proper grammer and use of language most are coming from China.

The fight hasn't even begun and you're throwing in the towel and JOINING them?

The fight is over bro, the large companies that we purchase our products from not only sell to these guys but they allow them to use their branding on their websites, about a year ago I cnfronted a few companies about some websites and their use of logo's like:

Zeiss
Transitions
Varilux
Seiko

And the response was crappy, most of them tried to fein like their was nothing they could do. If I was to improperly use any of these logo's I suspect that I would get a C and D letter from the corporate lawyers. Certain frame vendors stamp their product with serial numbers so for them it would be easy to track where the product was being sold from so they must know. And if anyone doesn't elieve any of this ability to track what has been sold, my Varilux rep knows exactly how many of their lenses I sold every month, a number of my vendors come in with reports as to how much I have sold so it's not a far strecth to think that they would know how much these online vendors are selling and stop them if they truly saw online sales as an unethica or unprofessional thing.

[HarryChiling]

This post requires flame proof britches but here we go anyway:

I have said in the past that independent opticians are the minority and that the retail employed or doctor employed opticians is the majority. Pats attempts to try and legislatively enforce any sort of standards in the profession of opticianry has been meet with extreme resistance from both doctors and retail chains. The idea has always been that the supply of cheap labor will dry up and their operational costs will go up.

To an independent optician online eye wear poses a real threat.
To a doctor online eye wear poses a real threat.
To the retail chains online eye wear poses a real threat.
To the employed optician it's a quick way to make some money and costs very little in capital to implement.

In the past there have been a few times I have actually played devils advocate and online eye wear sales isn't all bad from a certain view point.

As an optician I am being forced to play by optometry and retail opticianrys rules when all I want is to practice as a professional. If the possibility of practicing as a professional does not exist and the other professions see this struggle as an opportunity to profit like in the past and present then why not burn the house down. If more opticians started selling eye wear online and promoting it as a viable and professional alternative then the only option to stop this disease is to create the cure or vaccine. That means either what we do is deemed as requiring a professional or it's not, can't have one without the other. I'd love to hear the differences in opinion on this one.

[Barry Santini]

Harry,

You're not sayin' anthing that I hasn't already said:

Either eyewear and "Rxs" are medical, or they're not"

Makes yer choice!

Barry

[HarryChiling]

Harry,

You're not sayin' anthing that I haven't alreasdy said:

Either eyewear and "Rxs" are medical, or they're not"

Makes yer choice!

Barry

Your right, it was just interesting to see a doctor advocate burning the house down when it's built on our foundations. Can you imagine an optician advocating online eye exams? That would be blasphemy, but it's no different. Every time my doctor has come back from a seminar she brings up the idea of online eye wear, it seems to be acceptable among a large group of optometrists or that's the impression I get. Keep in mind that this is a profession that stripped the profit out of contacts and put it in the fitting and then legislated opticians out of the fitting process in most states. The same could be done with glasses.

[FVCCHRIS]

Harry,

You're not sayin' anthing that I haven't alreasdy said:

Either eyewear and "Rxs" are medical, or they're not"

Makes yer choice!

Barry

Totally correct in my opinion -- So what! Where is it all going to lead?

I watched my Dad, who sold paint, get wiped out by the Home-improvement mass marketers. He was incredibly smart about I think even more stuff than I know about what I do-- And did any of that matter? Hell no, him and alot of other Mom and Pop, and even alot of bigger chains got wiped off the map! Where does this all end?

[Barry Santini]

How does the patient deal with the inevitable problems which will arise? Are the patient/on-line customers willing to throw away a pair that doesn't work and try again?

By coming in to their local, "previous" optician, and:

1. asking for help
2. fessing that they may have made a mistake
3. Pleading that they (had) been a good customer all those years (and that must count for somthin'...but not the other way around)
4. Yes, they'll willing to take a shot on "cheap" glasses.

After all, in America, can you blame them?

We celebrate, as a culture, that each and every citizen has not only a right, but a duty to be an agent and engine for free market capitalism.

We do not, however, celebrate quality any longer. Oh yeah, maybe if its the "same" price".

Otherwise, err... no!

And with eyewear, well...

Why spend more on a product you only need, and really don't want in the first place!

FWIW
(Rant off!)

Barry