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Thread: Crystal Ball

  1. #1
    OptiBoard Professional Mike Fretto's Avatar
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    Crystal Ball

    I think I'm basically venting here so bear with me:hammer:
    Id like to know if there's any kind of program or crystal ball that will show a very inexperienced dispenser just HOW STUPID that +9.00 sphere with a +3.00 add is going to look in that Sillhouette drill mount frame. To start with they sold poly Comfort which wont work according to Essilor charts, so now we have to contact the patient to see if they want to upgrade to a better lens and a higher index. The problem as I see it is we keep hiring kids that dont care or dont want to learn the technical stuff so we keep getting these kind of orders in the lab. I try to teach them but they just stand there like a deer staring into the headlights shaking there heads up and down like they understand but you just know they dont:angry: Im sorry like I said "venting" the spectacle optics program works great but doesnt go that high in power and I dont think you get a good feel for progressive edge thickness. Any help would be greatly appreciated
    Mike

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    Manuf. Lens Surface Treatments
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    Redhot Jumper High plus in drill mount...........

    Just get a lenticular lens and it will come out ok.



  3. #3
    OptiBoard Professional Mike Fretto's Avatar
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    Chris I appreciate your input, that would help this look better but eliminate any intermediate hopes this patient may have. What I was looking for was some direction as far as educational helps to show these kids today what the lens will look like before we go to the expense of fabricating only to have the patient come in and say I dont want those they look awfull.
    Mike

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    Master OptiBoarder Ginster's Avatar
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    Hi Mike

    You seem to be knowlegable with this issue, are you able to have them bring the orders to you while the Pt. is still there and before they are actually ordered with the lab so you can direct them? if your company only wants a warm body in the dispensery and not pay for an experienced opticain then I'm affraid there is no answer to your question unless you get lucky with a kid that takes an interest in optics and wants to learn, not just someone passing through. When I used to train yougsters The first thing I said was " You are learning a serious trade, a career that you can work anywhere, job security, if your good enough.You are dealing with peoples eyes so listen and learn, Once I had there attention, they had this in mind. Some stayed and most left saying I don't want to do this the rest of my life, It's just a job, they did'nt last long.

    Good Luck Ginny;)

  5. #5
    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fretto View Post
    I think I'm basically venting here so bear with me:hammer:
    Id like to know if there's any kind of program or crystal ball that will show a very inexperienced dispenser just HOW STUPID that +9.00 sphere with a +3.00 add is going to look in that Sillhouette drill mount frame. To start with they sold poly Comfort which wont work according to Essilor charts, so now we have to contact the patient to see if they want to upgrade to a better lens and a higher index. The problem as I see it is we keep hiring kids that dont care or dont want to learn the technical stuff so we keep getting these kind of orders in the lab. I try to teach them but they just stand there like a deer staring into the headlights shaking there heads up and down like they understand but you just know they dont:angry: Im sorry like I said "venting" the spectacle optics program works great but doesnt go that high in power and I dont think you get a good feel for progressive edge thickness. Any help would be greatly appreciated


    No offence Mike but if you are hiring these kids, you're getting what you paid for.

    If you are a lab, all you can do is make the Rx to spec, if possible, and bill the account.

    If you are the lab guy for a retail outlet and have no say on hiring, see if you can bring these people into the lab to work for a few days/weeks, then they will have a better understanding of what your talking about.

  6. #6
    OptiBoard Professional Mike Fretto's Avatar
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    The last part of your response applys to me I have no say in who we hire I run a small lab 30-40 jobs per day for an Opthamology practice. At one time we were registered with the state as a training facility for apprentice opticians and they would come down to the lab because they had to take the state board test some of which pertains to lab work. Eventually what happened was they would take the test, pass, and go somewhere else for more money so my employer quit funding there education I cant say I blame them. Now we have no apprentices just a bunch of kids that dont care just want a check every two weeks. Again what I was looking for is something hopefully simple to help them see in advance what there going to get before they get it. In this age of technology we live in I thought there might be something out there.
    Mike

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    Master OptiBoarder optical24/7's Avatar
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    I haven't found anything that gets the point across faster than seeing and doing. I would suggest you recommend to whom ever that you return to training your dispensing opticians at least some lab.

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    Master OptiBoarder optigrrl's Avatar
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    Mike, you can't teach people who don't want to learn. Lol, a friend of mine who runs a lab actually cut off an account from ever using their services when an optician sent in a job in a 9+ base wrap frame. The rx was -11.00 and change!

  9. #9
    Master OptiBoarder
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    This might help a bit. Fellow optiboarder Darryl Meister's creation.


    http://www.opticampus.com/tools/calculators.php

  10. #10
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    Wow! That's the sort of job that sends the milk streaming out of the lab guys nose! Seeing is believing and its true that there will always be a learning curve with new opticians. Of course - as has been mentioned - if they don't want to learn, I would encourage them to find a different line of work. Strongly. Otherwise, if there is nothing you can do as it pertains to the hiring process, you have two options:

    1. Process the job as best you're able, and let the optician take the brunt of it from the soon to be VERY unhappy patient.

    2. Tell the optician what they ordered either doesn't exist from the manufacturer, or is physically impossible to produce in a given Rx/frame combination. And let the optician call and take the brunt of it from the soon to be VERY unhappy patient.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder optigrrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    Wow! That's the sort of job that sends the milk streaming out of the lab guys nose! Seeing is believing and its true that there will always be a learning curve with new opticians. Of course - as has been mentioned - if they don't want to learn, I would encourage them to find a different line of work. Strongly. Otherwise, if there is nothing you can do as it pertains to the hiring process, you have two options:

    1. Process the job as best you're able, and let the optician take the brunt of it from the soon to be VERY unhappy patient.

    2. Tell the optician what they ordered either doesn't exist from the manufacturer, or is physically impossible to produce in a given Rx/frame combination. And let the optician call and take the brunt of it from the soon to be VERY unhappy patient.

    I hate to say it, but then that account will either give a refund to the patient at the owner's expense or call the rep for the lab and make or beg them to eat the cost.

  12. #12
    Eyes eastward... Uilleann's Avatar
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    They would really be that unscrupulous to insist on a refund from their lab when it is their own lack of training or willingness to learn how to do it right that caused the problem in the first place? That's just wrong on so many levels. But then, I suppose there are still plenty of doctors and dispensaries who love to operate that way. Sad. Best of luck. Don't really have anything to add that will help given that. I'm glad that's not a position I've been in, and I certainly feel your pain! :(

  13. #13
    Rising Star
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    That posting could have described me in 1985 at my first optical job. I sold a beautiful Laura Biagiotti sunglass with +6.00 in plastic. The frame must have been a 60 eye with an ed of like 80. About 2 seconds after I brought it into the lab, the lab manager came running out demanding to know who sold the job. He proceded to explain to me in no uncertain terms why this was a bad idea. Funny how 20+ years later I never forgot the incident. Suggest to the store manager that all jobs -/+ 4.00 need lab approval while the pt. is still there.

  14. #14
    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Silver Supporter Now I See's Avatar
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    Hi, Mike..

    I feel your pain...trying to teach someone who (you can tell) really doesn't care is very difficult!

    I'm wondering, if you have an availability chart accessible to the retail employees? Maybe if the retail guys/gals came back to the lab with you guys/gals, with the patient's RX first, then you guys could guide them as far as "best frame/lens" options, then they could go back out front and guide the patient along from there...

    I remember when I started optics, that's what the Opticians I worked for had me do, until I understood the limits of RX's.

    Also, like one of the other fellow Optiboarder's mentioned...if you could get the retail in the lab to work at all that would probably be the biggest help of all...a little hands-on sometimes does the trick...(and FWIW, no, I do not mean slappin' them around :shiner: :D :shiner:)
    ___________________________________________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fretto View Post
    I think I'm basically venting here so bear with me:hammer:
    Id like to know if there's any kind of program or crystal ball that will show a very inexperienced dispenser just HOW STUPID that +9.00 sphere with a +3.00 add is going to look in that Sillhouette drill mount frame. To start with they sold poly Comfort which wont work according to Essilor charts, so now we have to contact the patient to see if they want to upgrade to a better lens and a higher index. The problem as I see it is we keep hiring kids that dont care or dont want to learn the technical stuff so we keep getting these kind of orders in the lab. I try to teach them but they just stand there like a deer staring into the headlights shaking there heads up and down like they understand but you just know they dont:angry: Im sorry like I said "venting" the spectacle optics program works great but doesnt go that high in power and I dont think you get a good feel for progressive edge thickness. Any help would be greatly appreciated
    Hello Mike!

    Well, your staff got the first part of the job right by selecting a Silhouette drill mount.

    The great benefit of using the Silhouette's is that you have total control over the sizing...now that being said; they must take into consideration A-the patient's PD
    B-the shape- OVAL is really your best choice
    C-the size they order from the lab
    D-the lens material

    For this job- I would recommend that the first thing they do is take the patient's PD. Second, use a Silhouette drill mount- the best model with this Rx would probably be m7395-Titan Minimal Art. Third, select an oval shape-nothing with sharp corners i.e. No rectangle...Period. Next, they must match closely (better to be exact) the frame's PD to the Patient's PD; this is done by ordering the correct bridge size (17mm -if it won't fit to narrow on the nose). Then determine the eyesize- this is done by subtracting 17mm from the patient's PD.
    eg Patient's PD=63 mm
    minus dbl of 17mm= 46mm eyesize

    Following these simple steps will allow for ZERO decentration!

    Now- as far as the lens material- Poly isn't going to be thin enough- You would probably be better with a 1.67 index aspheric. Please consult a GOOD lab- one that specializes in high Rx & drilling Silhouette frames.

    AR would be a must.

    The 7395 minimal art frame allows for a smaller eyesize due to the fact the temples extend outward providing the width you will need to fit the patient's head.

    Now remember to check the temple length---you can order up to 170mm!
    How many frames in your dispensary actually come in different sizes???

    Custom tailor fit every time.

    Following these instructions will allow for a terrific result!
    I actually witnessed a +9.50 progressive and was amazed as was the customer!
    Wait! High minus can also achieve the same results! here I would use 1.74 index.
    From what I gather- these type of Rx's have had a very difficult time in the past due to poor frame/lens selection- Show your staff the right way & you may just gain your patient's loyalty for life.

    Good Luck!

    Scott
    Silhouette frame rep/former dispensing optician
    :cheers:

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uilleann View Post
    They would really be that unscrupulous to insist on a refund from their lab when it is their own lack of training or willingness to learn how to do it right that caused the problem in the first place? That's just wrong on so many levels. But then, I suppose there are still plenty of doctors and dispensaries who love to operate that way. Sad. Best of luck. Don't really have anything to add that will help given that. I'm glad that's not a position I've been in, and I certainly feel your pain! :(

    Maybe you should check to be sure that the crystal ball is polycarbonate and not any other *BOGUS* material!

    :cheers::cheers::cheers::D

  17. #17
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    I would require senior optician approval for any order over + or - 4.00. Think of it as a learning experience not as a problem. I am sure the patient will OK as you caught the error quickly.

    sharpstick

  18. #18
    OptiBoardaholic
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    I just did a +8.00 with 1.67 ovation ADS with crizal forte and it came out great. Sil titan Mod?....The large mens frame ,the PD was 32/31.5 ht 23mm. The price up here for poly to 1.67 is only $20.00 Canadian bucks more.(that's $1.65 U.S.) I think the thickest piont was only 5.6m.m.
    Oh,and by the way, thanks for the recession.

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