What happened?

[rbaker]

For the first time in the History of the United States we are facing the possibility of the next generation, our children and grandchildren, living under a reduced standard of living. They will earning less and have less. These “bail out” and “stimulus” plans do nothing to address the core issues that affect the economy; in fact, they exacerbate the issues which have led to the debacle that we find ourselves facing.

Most of us can look back to parents, grand parents and great grand parents who come to America with little more than a few dollars and a willingness to work hard to achieve a better life than they had back in the old country. Their singular desire was to leave their children better off than they were. They sacrificed to send their children to college and university (“get an education – they can never take that from you.”)

They realized that they and they alone were responsible for insuring the welfare of their families; not the government. They realized that the Judeo/Christian ethics of their fathers and grandfathers should be the ethical and moral base from which the political and business practices should be drawn.

Starting with the last “depression,” you know, the big one, we experienced the beginnings of the belief that the government would “fix” everything. The great social programs that ensued, such as the “Great Society,” were to end poverty and illiteracy. The secular humanist view became popular despite the fact that it was espoused by but a small percentage of Americans.

So, here we sit in the early spring of 2009 wondering just what the hell went wrong. How could the “government” let things get so screwed up?

How?

[obxeyeguy]

For the first time in the History of the United States we are facing the possibility of the next generation, our children and grandchildren, living under a reduced standard of living. They will earning less and have less.

First off Dick, I am not sure that this is a bad thing. I am early 50's, and like you said, my parents wanted me to go to school and have a better life than they did. They provided what they could, and I worked my a## off to pay for the rest.

Growing up at times was a struggle, as we didn't have a whole lot. Lived my whole childhood in an apartment near a city housing project. Never had a lot of the perks the "rich" kids had, but managed fine. Started working for cash at about 9 helping my brother deliver papers. Got my own route at 12. I banked most of the money, as that was what was taught to me.

Fast forward: By choice, I became an optician. My first job paid squat, But I soon caught up to making more than my Dad ever did. Have not by any means gotten rich, but have managed OK. My big goal, to make life for my kids better than it was for me.

In this process, I believe that we created a generation of what have you given me lately? I always wanted things to be easier for my son than they were for me, and I succeded in doing that I believe. Was it the right thing to do? I thought so, as that is what my parents did for me. Wrong! Many of our youth have grown up in a dream world that all these things just come to them. Somewhere, many have forgotten how hard their parents, and grandparents worked to provide these special perks.

How many of us grew up with a cell phone?? Today almost every kid over about 9 has one. The parents defend this as saying " I can get a hold of him anywhere". How about just knowing what the h##l the kid is doing.

Lets not even touch the I-Pods, and the X boxes. Heck, they replaced the babysitter or you have a nanny. What ever happened to the beater cars we drove as teenagers?? Now these kids drive 2-3 year cars and SUV's. Drive by the local ball diamonds in the summer, and you might see little children with parents, but not a whole bunch of early teens kids. Too busy with the video games.

Maybe its not a bad thing for this generation to have to take a step back, and re-affirm what is actually important to them. Only then do I believe we can move forward again.

The "Governments" fault?? Sure, a lot of this is, but I don't think all of it is.

[rbaker]

Thats my point. It's not the governments fault. Its our fault for placing unmerited faith in the government to meet all of our needs, wants and desires.

"I am responsible"

[rbaker]

Perhaps an economic depression and a war will redirect the misspent lives of todays have it all youths to what is really important. That is one of the reasons that I support the return of the draft. Every man upon reaching the age of 18 should undergo basic military training (especially discipline) and then spend a year or so in Iraq, Afghanistan or some other hell hole.

[Johns]

All excellent posts!!:cheers:

Read "Game Over". (Same guy that wrote of the current meltdown, and predicted last year's gas prices almost to the penny)

It lays it out in a non-judgemental non-fingerpointing way. The last section says that IF we make it out of this, we'll be living in a much, much, simpler society (a la 1950s). Many of us will have no problem with it, many others might, and there's where the chance for chaos lies.

[DragonLensmanWV]

Perhaps an economic depression and a war will redirect the misspent lives of todays have it all youths to what is really important. That is one of the reasons that I support the return of the draft. Every man upon reaching the age of 18 should undergo basic military training (especially discipline) and then spend a year or so in Iraq, Afghanistan or some other hell hole.

Are you saying we should have an endless supply of hell holes to forcibly send our young women and men into? Can't draft men without drafting women.

Granted, many of our youths need some discipline, but who needs obey or die?

I think it would be nice to have them get their discipline without having to go fight and die, as it would be nice for us not to have to be constantly going to war. But maybe now we have a chance to get away from being the world's most hated country.

[shanbaum]

Perhaps an economic depression and a war will redirect the misspent lives of todays have it all youths to what is really important. That is one of the reasons that I support the return of the draft. Every man upon reaching the age of 18 should undergo basic military training (especially discipline) and then spend a year or so in Iraq, Afghanistan or some other hell hole.

So, the government can fix everything, after all.

[shanbaum]

Thats my point. It's not the governments fault. Its our fault for placing unmerited faith in the government to meet all of our needs, wants and desires.

"I am responsible"

Dick, could you possibly provide an example of any living person who believes that the government can "meet all of our needs, wants and desires"?

Because, while I'm sure that such a person exists - after all, people will believe absolutely anything - I've never run into one. So, it would be especially useful if you could provide an example of someone with some actual credentials, who believes what you say "we" believe. That is, someone about whose opinion a critical observer would reasonably give a flip.

[For-Life]

I think a lot of it has to do with the whole entire generation of parent's who believe that their social life is more important than their kids, and then try to please their kids by babying them.

I know too many parents that now bail their kids out, not only in bad situations, but basically fund them on a daily basis. At 35, you should not be getting monthly payments from your parents.


Now onto the government entitlement thing. Honestly, I know too many hardworking people to believe that junk.


So why are these companies screwing up? For those of you who have investments, especially mutual funds, what do the companies that you invest in do? Oh you don't know? See the only the focus on investments now is growth. What is the growth of profits. So these executives, who care nothing about the companies they work for, are more concerned about short term profits so they get a raise and increase their portfolio than long term decisions.

These are not government decisions. These are company problems that us, as citizens do not old these companies accountable for.

So ya, it is not the government's fault. It is the members of the public who think that companies will always do the right things with their money.

[Johns]

Are you saying we should have an endless supply of hell holes to forcibly send our young women and men into? Can't draft men without drafting women.

Most difinitely!:cheers:

Start with New Orleans, the Texas border, New Orleans, and other domestic causes.

[rbaker]

Can't draft men without drafting women.

With very few exceptions, the women should stay home and take care of the babies, clean the house and cook the sauce. The male is the warrior the woman is the keeper of the hearth.

[Jacqui]

With very few exceptions, the women should stay home and take care of the babies, clean the house and cook the sauce. The male is the warrior the woman is the keeper of the hearth.

I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet.

[Jacqui]

Most difinitely!:cheers:

Start with New Orleans, the Texas border, New Orleans, and other domestic causes.

Agreed :D

[Judy Canty]

I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet, I will not start an arguemnet.

ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto, ditto....now where did I put my shoes???

[obxeyeguy]

Maybe a dictionary will work.;)

[gemstone]

The fact stands, as the present rules apply, the tide will not turn until American workers are willing to work for much, much less money. That can't happen because of minimun wage laws. The American companies can't compete, in general with slave labor or slave labor wages. I am not kicking minimum wages, just stating obvious facts. Don't believe me? Take a look at your frame displays. If you don't like it, change the rules.

[Jacqui]

now where did I put my shoes???

The ones with the pointy toes?? :D

[For-Life]

The fact stands, as the present rules apply, the tide will not turn until American workers are willing to work for much, much less money. That can't happen because of minimun wage laws. The American companies can't compete, in general with slave labor or slave labor wages. I am not kicking minimum wages, just stating obvious facts. Don't believe me? Take a look at your frame displays. If you don't like it, change the rules.

it is about new and different industries. That is what people are going to have to get through their heads. The US needs innovation and cannot be stuck in these old school industries that have no future.

[Judy Canty]

The ones with the pointy toes?? :D

The pointy-er the better...:D

[hcjilson]

Are those the shoes that go straighter when they are thrown??

Outstanding restraint ladies, I tried giving some rep points but I've got to spread some around first!:cheers: xxoo's from hj

[gemstone]

it is about new and different industries. That is what people are going to have to get through their heads. The US needs innovation and cannot be stuck in these old school industries that have no future.

Yes! Real answers! Keep them comming!

[Judy Canty]

Are those the shoes that go straighter when they are thrown??

Outstanding restraint ladies, I tried giving some rep points but I've got to spread some around first!:cheers: xxoo's from hj

No, they're much more effective when moved with an upward swing. :D

[Fezz]

I am cringing over this whole thread! Believe me, it is for more than ONE reason!


;):cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::D

[Spexvet]

The fact stands, as the present rules apply, the tide will not turn until American workers are willing to work for much, much less money. That can't happen because of minimun wage laws. The American companies can't compete, in general with slave labor or slave labor wages. I am not kicking minimum wages, just stating obvious facts. Don't believe me? Take a look at your frame displays. If you don't like it, change the rules.

Wrong. The tide will not turn until "American companies" (those who have and control wealth) are willing to accept less, and share more with those who work for them (notice I didn't say "give to those who don't work at all").

During the Clinton administration, there was a lot of wealth to be had (ahhhh... good times), often with little effort. Young people were aware of this, and their expectations were set. They could get their education in computer science or business, and make six figures in their first year out of school.

That environment is gone - but the young executives of "American companies" want to maintain their low effort / high income life. The only way they can do this is to lay off or underpay the people who are generating their wealth. Good for themselves in the short-term, very bad for America in the long term.

[Johns]

Wrong. The tide will not turn until "American companies" (those who have and control wealth) are willing to accept less, and share more with those who work for them (notice I didn't say "give to those who don't work at all").

Accept less, pay more? Now there's a forumla for success.

Look at the latest list of retailers that tried to accept less and pay the same.
Of course, they are mostly small, piddly stores that wouldn't make it anyway, such as:

Macys
Home Depot
Sears
Sbarro's
Pep Boys

Yeah, accept less and pay more...

You've sure got this retail business down to a science (fiction) !:hammer:

Yeah, big business is terrible! (unless you work for them). And thank God it's just "American" companies that are the problem.