Progressives Lenses Revealed

[HarryChiling]

With the help of a member here Raanan and the company he works for ROTLEX (love you guys), a project of mine that I really hold near and dear is coming to be. A while ago I asked if manufaturers would provide mapped images of their lenses and it was difficult to tell if the imags were doctored as well as the increments they used were different between companies making it near imposible to compare apples to apples. The interesting thing I found was that many progressives do have differences, but they are not readily apparent from looking at maps, but the maps do provide some key details as to how the lens does what it does. My number of remakes on progressives was never very high but now the level of confidence from my patients is through the roof.

Here is the link, you do have to register but there are plenty of images there and this is just he begining, I have more to put up and more data to add to each image so keep checking back for more.

http://onlineopticianry.com/maps

[chip anderson]

Harry: When I went to register I got the folloing message twice.

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_ECHO, expecting ',' or ';' in /home/onlineop/public_html/maps/insert_ac.php on line 53

Have no idea what this means but it wouldn't let me in because of it.

Chip

[HarryChiling]

Harry: When I went to register I got the folloing message twice.

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_ECHO, expecting ',' or ';' in /home/onlineop/public_html/maps/insert_ac.php on line 53

Have no idea what this means but it wouldn't let me in because of it.

Chip

Thanks sorry I uploaded an older version of a file. It's fixed now, let me know if you run into any other bugs.

[scriptfiller]

Thanks Harry for assembling the site, but I have one problem: I cannot click into the usename and password boxes to log on. I'm using Firefox on a XP platform.

[dkippolito]

same problem here

[chip anderson]

Harry:
Now it let me register, told me I may now login, but login and passwords spaces won't accept anything.

[HarryChiling]

I am not sue why it's doing that, but will check on it, I made the text underneath the fields labels so you can click on those and the field will allow you to enter the info.

Should be fixed let me know how it works out. My intention was to wait to release this thing until the first of he year and get all the bugs out and add more lenses, but I see more posts that could use the information contained herein and the company that mapped it spent a lot of time and effort that I am sure they would love to see it up and running. Thanks for pointing out all the bugs, lots of times as the creator I think it's perfect just because I made it so i rely on critique like this to truly perfect it.

[Rafael]

You can also use "tab" after put in the user name, so you get into the password field.

[HarryChiling]

You can also use "tab" after put in the user name, so you get into the password field.

I just included a javascript that sets the focus to the username and your right the tab can be used from there to get to the password, again I got anxious and released the site before all the bugs are out and it will continue to be a work in progress so anything that could make it better I want to hear.

A request I am going to putting together is a comparison feature.

[KStraker]

The pictures are interesting, but I don't have a clue how to read those graphs. Can you give a tutorial please?

[xiaowei]

The pictures are interesting, but I don't have a clue how to read those graphs. Can you give a tutorial please?

Harry, YES, GREATwork. I can understand most of the graphs, however, what exactly does the red graph in the "Corridor cross section" denote? I understand, this is something like the residual cylinder (error) along the corridor. However, for a properly designed PAL, there should be that "umbillic line" in the center of the corridor where that error is (almost, in theory) zero.

That it does reach values up to 0.4 diopters in some cases is this really due to bad lens design or does it depend on how good your current software follows the properly slightly curved corridor? This would likely also explain the steps or "tooth" in many curves when your software recenters in the corridor?! (A typical case might be "Vision Ease Outlook ATO 2008")

Any hints?

Sincerely

XW

[Raanan Bavli]

Indeed, ideally the line you talk about should be zero. After years of mapping thousands of lenses, I can say that this is never the case. In reality almost all lenses have at least one point along the corridor, where the cylinder is 0.15D to 0.25D. Some lenses have values higher than 0.25D and to my opinion, such lenses should not be sold and worn. I have not yet managed to determine whether these residual cylinder values are design-related, or production-related, but does this really matter? I can tell, that I know one manufacturer who makes lenses with corridors having residual values not exceeding 0.1D, and this means that it's definitely possible to make good lenses.
The issue of curved corridors is not addressed by this software, and if any of the lenses displayed in Harry's site, has such feature, this representation of corridor cross-section does some injustice to such lenses.

[KStraker]

Indeed, ideally the line you talk about should be zero. After years of mapping thousands of lenses, I can say that this is never the case. In reality almost all lenses have at least one point along the corridor, where the cylinder is 0.15D to 0.25D. Some lenses have values higher than 0.25D and to my opinion, such lenses should not be sold and worn. I have not yet managed to determine whether these residual cylinder values are design-related, or production-related, but does this really matter? I can tell, that I know one manufacturer who makes lenses with corridors having residual values not exceeding 0.1D, and this means that it's definitely possible to make good lenses.
The issue of curved corridors is not addressed by this software, and if any of the lenses displayed in Harry's site, has such feature, this representation of corridor cross-section does some injustice to such lenses.

Can you please tell me what is relevant in these graphs? Any chance you manufacture for Ilenco? I'd like to send a Concord for mapping.

[Raanan Bavli]

There's a lot of relevance. It depends on what you are looking for. Harry's goal was to establish some address to professionals who wish to provide their patients with the best available lens. As you know, lenses differ in many features, some of them are very difficult to quantify. Some lenses provide similar designs, but there's probably one with better performance in any class. If I understand Harry's purpose, the web site should enable professionals to stop relying on biased (and sometimes inaccurate) information related to lens performance.
To your question about relevance; One can see the following:
corridor width at each vertical position, depth of corridor, how short are "sort corridor" designs, amount of distortions, size of "usable" areas, uniformity of the far-vision and near vision zones, errors in printed marks or semi-visible ones (leading to errors in framing the lenses), and more.
Not sure I understand your question about "manufacture for Ilenco" but if you mean mapping such a lens, I'll be glad to do that for you.

[KStraker]

There's a lot of relevance. It depends on what you are looking for. Harry's goal was to establish some address to professionals who wish to provide their patients with the best available lens. As you know, lenses differ in many features, some of them are very difficult to quantify. Some lenses provide similar designs, but there's probably one with better performance in any class. If I understand Harry's purpose, the web site should enable professionals to stop relying on biased (and sometimes inaccurate) information related to lens performance.
To your question about relevance; One can see the following:
corridor width at each vertical position, depth of corridor, how short are "sort corridor" designs, amount of distortions, size of "usable" areas, uniformity of the far-vision and near vision zones, errors in printed marks or semi-visible ones (leading to errors in framing the lenses), and more.
Not sure I understand your question about "manufacture for Ilenco" but if you mean mapping such a lens, I'll be glad to do that for you.

I saw that you were a manufacturer in Israel. Ilenco=Israeli Lens Company. I would be interested in having a lens mapped if it is not a huge ordeal. What is the process?

[Raanan Bavli]

I'm not a lens manufacturer. My comapny develops lens inspection (and mapping) systems. The process is simple: if you send me a lens, I'll map it, and email you the lens map, along with software for analyzing lens maps. My shipping adress is:

Raanan Bavli

Rotlex
Unit 2D,
Omer Industrial Park.
Omer,
Israel, 84965

If you send lenses, please indicate that these are for research only and the commercial values is 1 - 2 $ per lens.

[HarryChiling]

I am glad there is a response to the site and maps. They do give objective data related to the lens design. If you read the intro their certainly is a considerable amount of errors that could and probably is present in these lenses, however each design meet ANSI, therefore could potentially be a lens that you or I would order and release to our patients. My initial intention was to wait until I had the site fully loaded with everything I would like to have on it, a tutorial is going to be one of theses things that I include, for the time being it is what it is, but I will have more information available soon to help with interpretation. Keep in mind that any information is objective in nature, so it can and will be disputed by subjective methods. This is another piece of the puzzle not the whole picture.

If anyone here has read the paper by Sheedy, which many here seem to know and mention; you will understand his methodology for rating lenses. My goal is to use his methods to rate all the lenses that I have mapped, this should allow an easier quicker method of comparison to someone that just wants the data interpreted for them. Sheedy's methods were in no way the end all be all but it was a road map for comparison and this site could be a way of rating more lenses.

I saw that you were a manufacturer in Israel. Ilenco=Israeli Lens Company. I would be interested in having a lens mapped if it is not a huge ordeal. What is the process?

You could also mail it to the ATO as I will be putting together another package to be sent fairly soon.

That it does reach values up to 0.4 diopters in some cases is this really due to bad lens design or does it depend on how good your current software follows the properly slightly curved corridor? This would likely also explain the steps or "tooth" in many curves when your software recenters in the corridor?! (A typical case might be "Vision Ease Outlook ATO 2008")

I believe you are correct the teeth in the graph were taken care of in a more recent version of the software, I used an older version to make the graphs, keep in mind that this data was compiled over the course of a 2 year span and the graphs and all other data will be updated using the newer version of the software. Xiaowei I understand you have a considerable amount of knowledge in optics, It would be nice to have your input when creating a document as a tutorial.

[Jacqui]

Have you done any with the lenses made with Crossbows software or any of the other "generic" brands?? I'm talking about freeform only.

[HarryChiling]

Have you done any with the lenses made with Crossbows software or any of the other "generic" brands?? I'm talking about freeform only.

No and quite frankly I can't afford to do it with FF lenses and I have no desire in the present time. If you know of anyone that is making these lenses you could send me one, parameters:

Right Eye
Plano Sph (manufacturers recommended base curve)
Add +2.00

A = 50
B = 40
Dbl = 20
ED = 51

PD = 30
Seg Hgt = 24

The address is:

Association of Technical Opticians
PO Box 114
Shrewsbury, PA 17361

I am compiling shipments of a lenses as we speak to send another package. I have coem to a point where I have exhausted my resources getting different designs so anyone that has a specific design I would love to sent it out to be mapped an incorporated into the site. I can send you the raw data rather than the map image as well.

[Pell]

Why is it that all PAL maps are a PL sph with a +2.00 ADD? Wouldn't it make sense to map how higher spheres and cylinder (WTR, ATR, and obliques) affect the lens? Or am I just talking about too much time and money?

(btw, it's good to see a compilation of these. Good job Harry and ATO!)

[chip anderson]

Harry:
You gonna run me outta ink printin all theses for side by side comparison.

[MarcE]

A = 50
B = 40
Dbl = 20
ED = 51

PD = 30
Seg Hgt = 24

Harry, you want these edged?? I'm surprised.

I will send you at least one. I'll look around for others.

Are you taking semi-finished blanks or finished only?

[Ineed Chocolate]

Thanks so much to you, Harry, Raanan, and Rotlex for this extremely valuable tool! I found this very interesting and enlightening. AND...the next time any of us have a lens rep in front of us who is giving us the standard, ‘Our lens has the most useable space of any PAL on the market,’ routine, we can pull out these maps and show them the actual comparisons.

[KStraker]

Harry, you want these edged?? I'm surprised.

I will send you at least one. I'll look around for others.

Are you taking semi-finished blanks or finished only?

I think those are just the surfacing parameters.

[HarryChiling]

Uncut not edged is how they need to be, I provided those parameters if anyone is surfaceing.