I have a question. Why is the Christian Right anti-gay and anti-gay marriage, but pro-death penalty and pro-gun ownership.
Maybe I am wrong about the last two, and then this can be closed. But if I am not, it just does not seem to make sense to me.
I have a question. Why is the Christian Right anti-gay and anti-gay marriage, but pro-death penalty and pro-gun ownership.
Maybe I am wrong about the last two, and then this can be closed. But if I am not, it just does not seem to make sense to me.
Can only speak for myself. To me gun ownership has nothing to do with the Bible so I don't consider that a religious issue. We do own several guns that are locked up appropriately and I do feel that gun control is not a good idea.
Gay marriage and gay rights are in direct disagreement with Scripture so that is why you will find the "Christian Right" against it.
I can say that personally I do not exactly follow the party line on this one based on personal choice and the sexual orientation of 2 of my very best friends but I do also expect to have to answer to Jesus when He asks me about it, and He might.
Death penalty is a bit more murky and there are Old and New Testament verses that sometimes seem to contradict each other. I would have to do some more homework before I wade into that one.
Does that answer your question, at least sort of?
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
I really don't want to see this turning into Christian-bashing so please keep it civil.
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Well the way I see it, if you own a hunting gun for hunting, fine. For gun ownership, I see it a problem with handguns, because they are meant to kill people (and fully automatics). To me, I would never see Jesus condoning the ownership of something purely made to kill people. Though I do think Peter owned a sword. I just remember his speech about turning the other cheek and non-violent resistance. To me, this was something that he was trying to teach Peter.
As for death penalty, the New Testament makes it clear that it is wrong, and I would think the Christian Right would follow the New Testament.
Neither do I. I am a Christian. I just disagree with this political stance. This is why I said Christian Right, because I know many Christian churches that disagree with this stance.Originally Posted by Steve Machol
Many people when talking of the death penalty quote the biblical verse "An eye for an eye.. and a tooth for a tooth" that is found in the Old Testament. I was taught that this was the law before Christ came and atoned for our sins, and with his birth and teachings it became more along the lines of turn the other cheek.
Myself personally, I am against the death penalty. While others in my family and church are for it.. I myself feel that it isn't our place period to deem who lives and who dies. That goes for the alleged criminals as well as for the innocent babies...
Homosexuality is referred to in the Bible for being a sin. In my mind though, there are worse sins out there.. and have had friendships with those who found comfort and love in same sex relationships... so you won't hear me stumping for or against bans on this one..
Gun ownership and control.. I think we need to tighten our controls and be more accountable for the firearms in this country. I do not advocate a direct ban per se.. just it is ridiculous the amount of gun violence we have..something should be done to keep the guns out of the streets.. and unfortunately a lot of those guns come from honest people who were robbed of them.. and may not even know it till asked by a police officer in an investigation..
Just my dollar's worth.. Which is really the equivalent to last year's 2 cents..
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
If you have a gun to protect yourself (which is our primary reason, my hubby also like to shoot at a range occasionally) I think Jesus would see that differently than having one just to do harm with. A person could get legalistic about whether or not the new testament condones the death penalty although getting legalistic was something Jesus had a pretty big problem with. I'd put my hubby on here to debate it with you but he gets cranky sometimes ;)
Honestly I think there are some things I am just not going to know everything there is to know about it until I get to the Kingdom-and I think most of those things will become immediately not so important to "know". I don't think there is a clear cut answer on some of this as interpretation is a factor but I don't mind a lively debate.
Don't worry Steve, we'll behave!
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
I do not think that Jesus would condone anyone killing anyone. Love thy neighbour, love thy enemy.
Even if you were defending yourself from someone trying to kill you?
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Especially when. It is a time when you are ultimately forced to make a difficult, tough choice. It is who you are that will help you make the right one.
hmmmm.....well we disagree on that one. If I am being attacked by some evil person and I can save myself (or my family, especially my family) by taking their life then I think I would. I don't know for sure but I could kill someone if it meant saving my husband or kids. Hopefully I will never be in the position to have to decide. That is one of those things I was talking about that I would like to know now and can't but by the time I get in front of the Lord to ask Him it probably won't seem important.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
ok, but let me ask you this question, would Jesus say "just shoot him" or would Jesus say "shoot him only as a last resort." I mean in how many cases is the bad guy planning on killing or harming you or your family? Isn't there a more likely chance that he just wants your money?
last resort. Which honestly is the only time I would do it. I wouldn't just shoot first. I would assess the situation and try to solve it another way if I could. But if I had to I think I would do it.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
If a person has made the decision to rob or steal from you-they are willing to do you, or your family, grave bodily harm to achieve their goal. Period.
I have trained in the martial arts for many years.
I have trained with firearms, which include: handguns(revolvers, single action, semi-auto), rifles or longguns, and shotguns.
I have trained with knives of all sorts; long, short, fixed blade, folding, automatic, balisong, etc.
I have trained with various other forms of tools, weapons, and extensions of my body.
Throughout all of this training, one central philosophy has been taught, re-taught, fed, beaten, repeated over and over again:
You must protect yourself and family at all costs.
The goal of all of this training is: End the conflict as quickly and as violently as you can so that no further harm can come to your family or yourself.
For-Life,
I honestly hope and pray that you are never in a situation that puts your life against an attacker. Although, I fear that if such a situation presented itself.....that your Utopian philosophy of crime and violence may be your downfall.
Will your attackers stop once you hand over your wallet? Or will they thirst for more? After your wallet, will you have to give them your car, your wife or child?
You and I have widely different viewpoints on this subject. The main difference is: I have trained and prepared for the worst, whereas....you feel the worst may never happen.
I hope you are correct......................but I know that I am ready should you be wrong.
Chip, what has Jesus said. This is what I am trying to talk about in this thread. How can gay marriage be evil, but murder is not.
and I appreciate you having my back.
I don't think Jesus every spoke out about gays. But he did condem divorce in a strong, direct and unequivical way.
Homosexuals can't do anything to damage marriage that heterosexuals haven't already done.
As a Christian, I say let homosexuals get married if the state wants to let them. It is, however, impossible for them to enter into the covenant of marriage. But Jesus also said that it's immpossible for anyone who has been married to enter into the covenant of marriage with someone else.
Plus 1 to that. Someones still living in Mayberry. Just because we arm ouselves, does not mean we defend ourselves at every hint of wrong doing. Repeat after me, guns don't kill people, people kill people. If God didn't intend for me to shoot a gun, why did he give me a trigger finger?;)
The Bible specifically says homosexuality is wrong. Perhaps not Jesus (I would have to research that) but the Bible itself. And murder is evil. The 10 commandments address that. Again-the death penalty seems to be an issue not specifically addressed. For me personally there is a distinction between setting out to kill someone and someone getting killed while they are trying to kill me or my family.
Let the refining and improving of your own life keep you so busy that you have little time to criticize others. -H. Jackson Brown Jr.
If the only tool you have is a hammer you will approach every problem as though it were a nail
Did David slay Goliath? Wasn't he backed by God?
There are times when one does have to defend themselves. I am not going to condemn all our armed service men and women to hell for shooting another human being..
It should not be a first choice.. It shouldn't be a rash decision.. and it sure in the blazes be justified.
I do not endorse the death penalty.. and while I am a peaceful person, if you threaten my family.. my child.. this mama bear will attack. Maybe not with intent to kill.. but if that is what is necessary then I will do it.
There is a reason why charges weren't filed in the case of the father who strangled the naked man who came to his daughter's room with gloves, rope and a knife..
Its called justifiable homicide.
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
For David versus Goliath, that was the old testament that pushed for "an eye for an eye." Jesus refuted that in the New Testament.
Rather Mayberry than the wild west.
So are you saying that it wasn't justifiable to go to war when Hitler was in the midst of the Holocaust?
Do you think God had an issue with our men and women killing to defend the thousands upon thousands of people that were being slaughtered everyday in the name of purification?
You think that it was murder when the North fought with the South to end the centuries of abuse from slavery and treating people as property instead of human beings?
Do you think that this father http://www.theindychannel.com/news/17583626/detail.html should be prosecuted for stopping a sexual assault on his daughter?
To everything there is a season.. and sometimes you have to fight to protect the ones you love. While taking up arms should be the option of last resort, and way too many people are using it as an introduction, there are times when it is worse to stand back and let things go, rather than to stand up and protect those who need it.
"Some believe in destiny, and some believe in fate. But I believe that happiness is something we create."-Something More by Sugarland
I believe certain actions demand certain consequences. Going to war against Hitler was a needed consequence.
But, mass ownership of a weapon that is meant only to kill people shows the possible intention of doing so. I believe that for 99% of a crime, ownership of a gun is completely useless. I also believe that civilian gun ownership causes more crimes and more deaths than it prevents.
As I have said before, if someone is there to rob you, in most cases they want your money and that is all. If you pull out your gun, they become scared, and they will shoot you.
There are the few cases of rape and such where the criminal wants more, and there is the need to fight. With that said, this does not encourage rapid gun ownership.
I believe Jesus would look at gun ownership and see it as a travisty. I do not believe he would want us to stand by and let ourselves get raped (or family members), but I think he would see that it is a step way too far for the possible risk out there in real life. We cannot deny the amount of innocent people who get injured or killed by accidental use of hand guns, and I would be that it happens far more than the crimes that a hand gun would probably stop. I believe Jesus would see that as a major problem.
I can also argue that carrying a knife or a bat is probably as useful when someone has intentions of physically harming you as a gun. But they are far safer.
I think it comes down to this. What crimes justify use of shooting someone and what crimes justify the use of a member of the public killing someone. Christianity has taught me to forgive all and to offer redemption - not to be the judge, jury, and executioner. So, someone who robs you, someone who breaks into your house to steal something (even though a strong percent of cases happen when no one is there), someone who vandalizes and so forth - without the intention of physically harming you, are better dealt with by the police.
If someone is going to physically harm you through torture or rape, then you have to stop them. But the cases of that happening are minimal compared to gun ownership, and probably less than accidental gun deaths.
The original idea, was for the death penalty to be a deterrent. I must agree, the way it is now administered deters nothing. Political platforms can sometimes seem strange. In that regard I would ask, why would a party, chose to spare the life of a remorseless, cruel and brutal murderer and at the same time advocate killing healthy fetuses? Talk about answering for something, it is my belief that somebody is going to answer for all those dead babies.
thank you for your comments. I do not want this to be about political parties or the constitution. We know what the political parties back, and we know the constitution allows the use of guns.
I am asking why the Christian right is against gays and gay marriage, but supports gun ownership (including fully automatics) and the death penalty. The Christian right also supports Pro-Life, so I am not advocating in this thread that they should change that view. It is their view and they have logic behind it.
I just do not understand the logic behind the other policies.
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