Is this happening to you?

[scriptfiller]

I don't know what's in the water here in Northeast Florida, but we have had a rash of pats. calling up the day after making their purchase to cancel.

Are any of you out there in "Optiboard world" running in to this problem?

What part of NO REFUNDS do they not understand?

[Now I See]

I've only had that happen to me twice this year...the first one, I kind of had a feeling it was going to happen, so I waited a day before I ordered anything...and sure enough, the pt called up and wanted to cancel the order...luckily I hadn't deposited the check yet, so I was able to give it back to her, no harm done...

The other one...I was foolish enough to order (and cut) the lenses with a scant downpayment....it took me 4 months, but they finally came in and paid after much complaining. ***note to self...get half down or in full payment from now on!!!! :hammer:

[tia_2_lexi]

I have been having the same problem! I had one lady who came in and ordered a complete set only to call 3 days later to say she needed to cancel the order due to her husband getting mad at her for ordering glasses! So I canceled the order and refunded her Credit Card. She came back in 2 weeks later and reordered the glasses, stating she didnt care if she got in trouble or not! So now I have been waiting a day or two if the pt seems kinda hesitant on placing the order to begin with (after collecting half down of course!)

I'm not sure if its the economy, or if they are just having second ideas about purchasing. when you figure out what it is....let me know!

[chip anderson]

Some people shop after they buy. Cancel if you have been underquoted.

[Uilleann]

Do any of you have an office policy of requiring payment in full before starting any work? Do you make sure the patient is well educated as to the nature of a custom medical device such as glasses or custom RGP's? Do any of you implement a 'restocking fee' or the like on canceled orders or returns?

How do you manage these situations as a rule in your offices?

[Andrew Weiss]

Do any of you have an office policy of requiring payment in full before starting any work?

Either payment in full or one-half -- and the one-half we usually accept only from established patients.

Do you make sure the patient is well educated as to the nature of a custom medical device such as glasses or custom RGP's?

Generally, yes.

Do any of you implement a 'restocking fee' or the like on canceled orders or returns?

How do you manage these situations as a rule in your offices?

In general we will refund for lenses only if the lenses haven't already been started. We'll usually refund the frame price in full because it's easy enough to put it back on the boards. Whether we refund a portion of the lens price is up to each individual situation. Our goal is to keep the patient happy (if that's possible) and to balance what's fair to both the patient and the office.

Fortunately we face this problem very rarely; in the 20 months I've been here I think we've only had this situation come up 2 or 3 times.

[PAkev]

We indicate all value added charges on our invoice such as professional fitting fee, scratch warranty, frame warranty, lenses only bench fee, case, cleaner, and cloth and then adjust all these costs off the package by the respective amount. This way can better understand the value we put on our time as well as many of the smaller things not afforded at bargain basement retailers. BTW.... My average consulting and fitting with a patient is around 45 min. but we turn over ALL the stones. In some cases the patient becomes more educated about eyewear than some of our competitors employees. When the total of all the value added charges are tallied, the so called "Deal" may not appear as great as the original perceived value from a competitor.

From my personal experience and observation, in the office many folks just want to know the bottom line. They know choosing a $300 designer frame to maintain their image and then nickeling and diming about all the other costs is a sure way of compromising that same image they are trying to develop. Therefore, they often wait to process the charges from and invoice after they leave the office.

Everyones situation is different but this has been working very well for us. I have a template on MS Excel; if anyone is interested in seeing it contact me with your email address and I can attach it as a file.

[cocoisland58]

I have noticed a slight increase in "buyer's remorse". We don't order anything until morning so if they call at the end of the day we will refund the deposit. If they wait until the lens order is in process than there is a cancellation fee which they must pay.

[scriptfiller]

We require payment in full at time of purchase. If they can't make full payment we ask for at least half the amount.

We read aloud and have the pat. read silently along with us a statement stating that since spectacles are a custom made product that we cannot offer any refunds and have the pat. sign that they have read it.

I understand the economic situation, but folks need to do their comparison shopping before they purchase. None of the pats'. that have called back have paid full price there usually has been ~20-30% taken off, in most cases the discount has been greater than $150.

[PAkev]

Also keep in mind many credit card clearing houses don't credit the discount rate on returns. With some corporate cards costing as much as 5% this cost could sponge $$ from those with retailers with liberal return policies from patients using credit cards.

[Dave Metzger]

Back in the early eighties when I was new in business and older man ordered glasses and balked when I requested payment or a generous deposit. He said " What if I get hit by a bus tomorrow?"

I replied" Payment in full, please, CASH!"

[OpticianVlad]

buyer's remorse.

When I used to work at LC, this drove me crazy.
people change their mind about the lenses when get home.

it's crazy.

[specti-wolf]

No, this one is my favorite, and has happened several times. Customers who pick out very expensive frames, want the "best of everything", and then the next day, want a refund. Why? Because now they already have a receipt to file for their medical reimbursement fund. They are about to lose money, so they just order whatever and then send in bogus receipt. :angry::angry:

S-W

[bob_f_aboc]

No, this one is my favorite, and has happened several times. Customers who pick out very expensive frames, want the "best of everything", and then the next day, want a refund. Why? Because now they already have a receipt to file for their medical reimbursement fund. They are about to lose money, so they just order whatever and then send in bogus receipt. :angry::angry:

S-W

I make it a point to order every lens immediately after the sale during the month of December, just to deal with this. I know it happens at other times of the year, but its more concentrated at the end of the year. Every patient when they leave the office receives a "Spectacle Purchase Policy" that states that the lenses are a custom made product and are not refundable after being ordered.

[Barry Santini]

It just goes to show you what I've been sayin' all along...

Husband: "YOU SPENT *WHAT* on your sight and appearance?

(heaven forbid...)

Scriptfiller, you know that you *lost* money on that credit card refund, since the fee you incurred when you charged the order IS NOT refunded to you on the refund/credit. If it's, say $500, that $15.00 out of yer pocket for the privalege of "accepting" credit cards as the merchant.

Yeah, I'm PO'd about CC companies. In fact, my sales firgure indicate that almost 60% of all my transctions are CCs.

So...presidential candidates, listen up!:

The one of you that recognizes that credit cards have in fact, become the new, *defacto* currency of the United States, and starts to regulate these CC companies, so that they don't hurt the small businessman,
gets my vote!

Barry
(rant off, again!)

[Dave Nelson]

I had a contact lens client once who kept ordering contacts, then not picking them up, so we finally asked for a deposit. She'd pay the deposit, we'd order the lens, she come in in a day or two, then ask for her deposit back. We finally told her to pay in full, no refunds, so she did. Comes back a couple days later, wants her money back. We give her the money, but tell her we won't do any more contacts for her, she agrees. About a month later, she is in the newspapers. Seems she walked into a gas station, and demanded all the cash. She pointed to her large boyfriend sitting just outside, and told the clerk the boyfriend would be in to re-arrange his face if she did'nt get the money. She was charged and convicted of armed robbery, the boyfriend being the "weapon"
She was actually a nice lady, very attractive, but look what drugs and lousy boyfriends can do to you.

[bob_f_aboc]

I had a contact lens client once who kept ordering contacts, then not picking them up, so we finally asked for a deposit. She'd pay the deposit, we'd order the lens, she come in in a day or two, then ask for her deposit back. We finally told her to pay in full, no refunds, so she did. Comes back a couple days later, wants her money back. We give her the money, but tell her we won't do any more contacts for her, she agrees. About a month later, she is in the newspapers. Seems she walked into a gas station, and demanded all the cash. She pointed to her large boyfriend sitting just outside, and told the clerk the boyfriend would be in to re-arrange his face if she did'nt get the money. She was charged and convicted of armed robbery, the boyfriend being the "weapon"
She was actually a nice lady, very attractive, but look what drugs and lousy boyfriends can do to you.

Count yourself as lucky that you weren't "re-arranged" when you told her no more contacts. :shiner::shiner::shiner:

I guess you know where the money for the deposits came from now!:hammer::hammer::hammer:

[scograd]

Scriptfiller, you know that you *lost* money on that credit card refund, since the fee you incurred when you charged the order IS NOT refunded to you on the refund/credit. If it's, say $500, that $15.00 out of yer pocket for the privalege of "accepting" credit cards as the merchant.

Yeah, I'm PO'd about CC companies. In fact, my sales firgure indicate that almost 60% of all my transctions are CCs.

So...presidential candidates, listen up!:

The one of you that recognizes that credit cards have in fact, become the new, *defacto* currency of the United States, and starts to regulate these CC companies, so that they don't hurt the small businessman,
gets my vote!

That's exactly why we have signs in the office to present all insurance or discount cards at the time of the exam. We no longer offer refunds after I realized we were spending over $20K merchant processing fees a year.

[chip anderson]

Actually what ever happened to usury laws? I'm old but but I can remember when charging over six per cent was concidered usury and a prosecutable offense.
Now days the credit card business would make an old Mafioso turn green with envy. Vigorish wasn't this good.

Chip

[Jamelina]

It's not too common to have that happen where I work. I did have a woman call a few days into her order to cancel, but the lab had almost finished her lenses and we would have been charged regardless of whether she canceled her order or not. We also ordered a frame in for her. We gave her the option of paying for the lenses as it was the same frame she had from the previous year or she could cancel the order and pay a restocking fee (which covered our costs for the lenses and returning the frame). She chose to just cancel the entire order and didn't mind paying the restocking fee. At the office I used to work for they would put a disclaimer on the receipt stating that if the order was canceled after a certain point a 50% restocking fee would be charged.

[MarcE]

Actually what ever happened to usury laws? I'm old but but I can remember when charging over six per cent was concidered usury and a prosecutable offense.
Now days the credit card business would make an old Mafioso turn green with envy. Vigorish wasn't this good.

Chip

Those laws are still around. Most are 18 or 21% now. You have to get their attention. If you only charge 6% interest, people will take that to their grave! There are many more deadbeats now than back in the "good 'ol days". Even though the unemployment rate is much lower:finger:

You should also charge 18% on delinquent accounts. Just because that used to be considered 'usury', doesn't mean that it is immoral.

[scriptfiller]

Being the lab manager, as soon as the optician hands me the order I'm on Vision Web like white on rice. My lab I use has a policy that if I cancel an order I have to eat 100% of the cost anyway. So if I get the order started ASAP then we can use our labs' policy against the "refund offender", if they are adamant about canceling, we make them eat the cost of the lense plus around 20%. I wish some in management would not be so linguini spined and really enforce our refund policy, we don't give refunds.

[Fezz]

linguini spined

ROFLMAO!!!!

I love it! I think I have known a few fettucini spines in my time!


:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[shelleygirl]

We have quite a few wives who try to cancel their order when their husbands find out how much they spent. If they call the same day, we will refund less 25% restocking fee. After that, we explain the lenses have already been started and it is a custom made product. When a woman comes in and the sale is a big one, I almost want to say "should you check with hubby first?" lol What kills me is that the wives at like they had no idea they chose a $500 Prada frame and the big bad opticians tricked her so she is not in trouble with hubby. And HE is always the one that calls not her.

[chip anderson]

Shelly:
We have more trouble with men that get spectacles without thier wife's advise and approval. They may keep it but you can bet we will hear about how wiffey didn't like it. Or how she "hated" the pair he is replacing.
When I know this is a potential problem, I have them bring wiffey or whatever with them before deciding on frames.

Chip