Deflating the Sunglass myths vs facts

**Uilleann** · 09-13-2008, 09:47 AM

So yesterday, we had one of our sunglass reps in who after a few minutes of the usual inventory and such asked us about the new display we had containing 24 new pieces of his direct competition. For the sake of anonymity, lets say this guy works for company "O" and the competition he was so fervently bashing was company "MJ". ;)

At any rate, he went on for a good ten minutes about how his technology was the best, and NO one could touch them (a shpiel I've head from company "O" countless times before). He said how proud he was they they would aggressively attack and sue any other company that tried to duplicate their technology. The line that struck me as the most ridiculous was when he said: "We can prove it to you when our fancy-pants demo truck comes to town, because we can shine a laser through the lenses to show you just how much more perfect OUR lenses are from anyone else!"

Trying to control my fit of incredulity and laughter all mixed into one, I politely nodded, and asked him to leave us with a suggested purchase order. It was time to go for the day, and I'd heard quite enough.

So my question is this: How many of you have gotten this pitch from a sun vendor before? And in listening to all of his wonderful technology (which three other makers I use have implemented for about 20 years to my knowledge) and his legal threats towards other companies it made me wonder if, because he now had the backing of the HUGE multi-brand company that just bought them about a year ago, if they really were intent on trying to improve, or just to slap lawsuits all over trying to proove something?

But what?

How does one truly separate the chaff from the seed here? Is there any way to know without the propaganda and spin who is telling the truth? Really? And who is making the superior lens product in suns?

Now....back to my election '08 coverage... LOL

Brian~

**HarryChiling** · 09-13-2008, 09:53 AM

Read optical books, great way to get unbiased knowledge.

**Uilleann** · 09-13-2008, 10:54 AM

OK - let me clarify: it's not general optics knowledge I'm trying to grasp here. got that much fairly well in hand thanks. I'm wondering if any of you have direct experience with vendors, and trying to sift through their sales pitch and discerning what is fluff and frankly B.S, vs. what is valid. If you listen to every sun vendor out there, they have this reason or that why THEIR lenses and/or frames are the "very best"! And why everyone else stole their ideas etc. etc. etc.

How does one truly know what is what in these regards? I've never been a fan of company "O" at all...the main reason being their pitch hasn't ever changed. I tend to lean more towards believing the companies who show rather than talk, and generally don't have massive numbers of defectives etc.

But in regards to a given companies lens technology, UV protection, polarization film quality, light transmission, spectrum management, substrate quality, Rx-ability, etc... These are what I'm trying to compare.

**HarryChiling** · 09-13-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Uilleann

But in regards to a given companies lens technology, UV protection, polarization film quality, light transmission, spectrum management, substrate quality, Rx-ability, etc... These are what I'm trying to compare.

They're never gonna give it to you, they would rather shovel more bull so don't listen to it and don't let them talk about it.

**Uilleann** · 09-13-2008, 11:34 AM

Understandably, they will never give you all their proprietary company secrets. I doubt very much that your average garden variety rep even knows or understands it. Probably just regurgitating the stuff they learned from their training packets. However, some so know more than others. There must be SOME way for the end user to be able to tell who's accurate, and who's a snow job.

**Barry Santini** · 09-13-2008, 11:45 AM

and I *must* say, it is VERY impressive! But...I really couldn't understand *why* some competative brands look SOOOOO bad in the Air Force resolution test, whereas "O"s always looked great!. I was trying to correlate why "people" don't "see" such an exagerated difference in optical quality between those competing brands, and "O".

So, I asked them....

...and I'm still waiting....

FWIW

B

PS - On the counterside, "people" always see a qualitative difference with MJs, though, but its not always just about "optical quality" (color, contrast, etc., )

**rdcoach5** · 09-13-2008, 12:45 PM

Another rep from a competitor I'll call RP showed us some demo that supposedly showed the absolute distortion-free quality of his company's poly compared to the competition. Now, in real life , more than 2/3 of our customers who purchased Rx's in the RP frames that were made by their specialty lab I'll call P, couldn't get used to the distortion and received a refund. BIG, BIG, MONEY LOSER!

**Uilleann** · 09-13-2008, 12:45 PM

In doing a little bit of diggin, there's a hilarious video up on youtube about how the optics of brand "o" are SO awesome, and using their little laser beam tester. Pretty goofy to say the least. Also sadly immediately evident that their presenter knows absolutely NOTHING about optics, Rx, and prism or how the eye percieves it. But hey - whoever may thing that American Marketing is dead just needs to watch that video. *snicker*

**Uilleann** · 09-13-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by rdcoach5

Another rep from a competitor I'll call RP showed us some demo that supposedly showed the absolute distortion-free quality of his company's poly compared to the competition. Now, in real life , more than 2/3 of our customers who purchased Rx's in the RP frames that were made by their specialty lab I'll call P, couldn't get used to the distortion and received a refund. BIG, BIG, MONEY LOSER!

I've head that one from a company and lab JUST LIKE your experience. ;)

Funny thing - they showed us how THEIR poly was better than anybody elses because you could fold it in half and it wouldn't break. But the entire time I couldn't help but wonder what that must do to the optics. I personally like my lenses relatively flat thanks - no taco shaped optics for this guy! LOL

**Johns** · 09-13-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by rdcoach5

Another rep from a competitor I'll call RP showed us some demo that supposedly showed the absolute distortion-free quality of his company's poly compared to the competition. Now, in real life , more than 2/3 of our customers who purchased Rx's in the RP frames that were made by their specialty lab I'll call P, couldn't get used to the distortion and received a refund. BIG, BIG, MONEY LOSER!

First of all, just come out and say it. We all know that RP stands for "Real Pros." which of course would be the wildly innovative FezzJohns Inc. gang.

Secondly, the famous Ale Truck sunglass demonstator that is making the rounds throughout the country was designed to show how truly functional, yet affordable, a good pair of suns can help in real life situations. We figurethat there is a very good chance that you may one day be drinking a nice frosty cold one while wearing your FezzJohns shades. That cannot be disputed right?

Now, what are the chances of someone shooting you point blank with a laser, .22 cal. bullet at your eye, (unless you live in Philly), multiple rays of light, or any of the way-out tests that the other guys demonstrate. We keep it real!

Thirdly, you can easily avoid refunds by knowing how to work with the product. FezzJohns are the only shades that require the wearer to be adjusted. That's right! You don't adjust the glasses you adjust the wearer. We suggest that the initial fitting be done after the consuption of at least 2 pints of Ale. If the shades still don't feel right, then gradually increase consumption until everything is perfect. Refunds? Not even in our vocabulary!
:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

I have to wonder. If these other products (the big "O") in particular, are so great, why does it take a $5 million truck to prove it? Look at how B&L built a brand and early dominance in the sunglass market with a handful of reps carring a leather bag full of sunglasses. Can't the reps make a sale without the one-two punch of the multi-media sales truck?

And one more question: We all know how they are the most innovative, socially conscious company in the galaxy, so is it safe to assume that the big sales/demo truck is solar powered?

**Happylady** · 09-13-2008, 01:56 PM

A rep from a company I'll call "MJ" told me that most over the counter sunglasses just spray a cheap UV coating on their lenses that will wash off with just a few washings.

**Johns** · 09-13-2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Happylady

A rep from a company I'll call "MJ" told me that most over the counter sunglasses just spray a cheap UV coating on their lenses that will wash off with just a few washings.

That's a good one!

You have to remember that unless MJ can get their product into professional opticals such as ours; they will not have the ability to sell to the masses at the Costco stores. Think about it...

Also, you have to remember that for the majority of "O" sales are not made through opticals, but through the internet (their own website), and sporting goods outlets. When you ask a technical question, that deer in the headlights reaction you see on the reps face is genuine.

The last time I saw the "O" rep, I made a deal with my staff that I would show him the door when he said "Dude" more than 4 times. It took him 8 minutes, which was about 5 minutes more than I had thought it would take.

**HarryChiling** · 09-13-2008, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Johns

The last time I saw the "O" rep, I made a deal with my staff that I would show him the door when he said "Dude" more than 4 times. It took him 8 minutes, which was about 5 minutes more than I had thought it would take.

Did he seriously dude.

I would much rather spend my money on the FezzJohns model sunwear, I go in for the adjustment and just keep sayign they don't feel right untill I pass out. :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Oh and I forgot get the FezzJohns model "Beer Googles" everytime I wear them it's liek I am surrounded by hot women.

**Johns** · 09-13-2008, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by HarryChiling

Did he seriously dude.

Oh and I forgot get the FezzJohns model "Beer Googles" everytime I wear them it's liek I am surrounded by hot women.

Trust me...if your not surrounded by hot women, you soon will be!:cheers:

**Johns** · 09-13-2008, 07:18 PM

Besides the big names already mentioned it this thread, how many of you sell the "extension" sun lines, that is, Vivas', Lamys', Charman, Safilo, and the others that aren't suns but tag-along on the brands ophthalmics.

And have you noticed that most of the reps will come out and tell you that they really don't move, but you can exchange them when they don't? I don't see reps, but my friends that carry various lines tell me that they wish they didn't have to carry them.

**Chris Ryser** · 09-14-2008, 05:06 AM

Whatever a sunglass rep says, as an expirienced optician it should not take more than a few seconds to determine the quality of the lenses as well as the frame.

Check for waves in the lensometer or move them in front of the projector and check the frame as you would with a prescription frame and you got it all. Whatever the reps says.......................

**cocoisland58** · 09-14-2008, 07:15 AM

Quite a few years ago the company I worked for had a display of "O"s and a display of "MJ"s. The "O" rep came in one day and had a fit that his product was side by side and "OMG" someone had somehow put an MJ in the O display. He insisited that we move the displays apart and not allow the product to inter-mingle. He was so arrogant about it that the owner (who just happened to be in the back and heard everything) came out, told the rep to "pack-em up and get the h*ll out". We never carried another "O" and sure didn't miss them. Technology aside though. If one of my reps ever bashes someone else's product or even suggests we move it I would not hestitate to remove all of theirs. Arrogance without cause does not sit well with me or those that I work for.

**Pinkleponk** · 09-14-2008, 07:37 AM

Are you allowed to take on the sunnies (Oakley) without the optical range?

**Leighlee** · 09-15-2008, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Johns

First of all, just come out and say it. We all know that RP stands for "Real Pros." which of course would be the wildly innovative FezzJohns Inc. gang.

Secondly, the famous Ale Truck sunglass demonstator that is making the rounds throughout the country was designed to show how truly functional, yet affordable, a good pair of suns can help in real life situations. We figurethat there is a very good chance that you may one day be drinking a nice frosty cold one while wearing your FezzJohns shades. That cannot be disputed right?

Now, what are the chances of someone shooting you point blank with a laser, .22 cal. bullet at your eye, (unless you live in Philly), multiple rays of light, or any of the way-out tests that the other guys demonstrate. We keep it real!

Thirdly, you can easily avoid refunds by knowing how to work with the product. FezzJohns are the only shades that require the wearer to be adjusted. That's right! You don't adjust the glasses you adjust the wearer. We suggest that the initial fitting be done after the consuption of at least 2 pints of Ale. If the shades still don't feel right, then gradually increase consumption until everything is perfect. Refunds? Not even in our vocabulary!
:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

I have to wonder. If these other products (the big "O") in particular, are so great, why does it take a $5 million truck to prove it? Look at how B&L built a brand and early dominance in the sunglass market with a handful of reps carring a leather bag full of sunglasses. Can't the reps make a sale without the one-two punch of the multi-media sales truck?

And one more question: We all know how they are the most innovative, socially conscious company in the galaxy, so is it safe to assume that the big sales/demo truck is solar powered?

Being relatively new here, I HAVE to ask...sometimes it hard to weed through the threads to figure out what is fact and what is fiction...is there indeed a Fezz/Johns Inc sunglass? The ale truck part, I get is fiction.

**Johns** · 09-15-2008, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Leighlee

Being relatively new here, I HAVE to ask...sometimes it hard to weed through the threads to figure out what is fact and what is fiction...is there indeed a Fezz/Johns Inc sunglass? The ale truck part, I get is fiction.

Deciphering fact from fiction is a large part of our job descriptions when we work in the optical world.;)

Although the line has yet to be released, there is indeed a FezzJohns line that should hit the market in March of 2009. The ale truck part is not entirely fiction either.
:cheers::cheers::cheers:

**Leighlee** · 09-15-2008, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Johns

Deciphering fact from fiction is a large part of our job descriptions when we work in the optical world.;)

Although the line has yet to be released, there is indeed a FezzJohns line that should hit the market in March of 2009. The ale truck part is not entirely fiction either.
:cheers::cheers::cheers:

I wanna work where YOU do then. :D

**KStraker** · 09-15-2008, 09:41 AM

:)Dude, don't call me dude!

Too bad I'm not Cyclops from the X-Men or that laser thing might be relevant. Let your eyes be the guide. IMO, Maui Jim possibly has the most soothing, comfortable lens out there. Followed very closely by Revo and Costa Del Mar. I like glass lenses for everything except extreme sports.

When the Ale truck comes south, let me know.

**uberoptiker** · 09-16-2008, 09:24 PM

Okay, help me out, folks.
I get "O", and "Real Pro's", but "FezzJohns"?
Throw me a bone here
By the way, if you want the "RP's" from "P" to work, try asking for an Autograph Attitude lens. Works for me every time, no non-adapts. The only Autograph Attitude I had a non-adapt with was a way too wrapped PanOptx with a -4.00 cyl. Restyled to a slightly less wrapped PanOptx (motorcyclist), and he was fine. By the way, that one was not done at "P".
Cheers!

P.S. Still waiting for the beer truck...