OK:Originally Posted by drk
My question is: does America always presume that it is the good one, and everyone else is evil? If America does, how does it know if it is right?
No.
OK:
My question is: does America always presume that it is the good one, and everyone else is evil? If America does, how does it know if it is right?
No.
You left out the first attack on the WTT.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Well, we should not presume we are good, we should strive to be on the side of "right".
Everyone else is certainly not evil, but some are, right?
I think terrorism is universally rejected yet certain small groups indulge themselves. Ask the terrorists if they think it's OK for us to blow them up. I think they'd say "no".
Pearl Harbor
Bush Pisses off the world
WTC bombing in 1993
9/11
Better?
Pearl Harbor
WTC bombing in 1993
9/11
Bush pisses off the world
Mission Accomplished
4155 US casualties since the begining of the war in Iraq
Last edited by Judy Canty; 09-10-2008 at 10:55 PM.
That's about right.
And that's just the dead Americans.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
after reading this thread maybe we need to change the name to Optiboard,where the jerks hang out.
You decide who qualifies.;)
Now look here, Bill - drk and Pete may hold some unpopular, perhaps even incomprehensible views, but that's no reason to attack them personally. They have every right to express themselves as they see fit and you should be ashamed of your wanton disregard for that. It's not just impolite; it's downright un-American.
Ouch!
That really hurts Bill!:shiner:
Where should I be hanging out?
Nobody else will have us!;):cheers:
Ophthalmic Optician, Society to Advance Opticianry
You are right again as usual Bill. There does seem to be way too many McCain/Palin supporters here.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Mr West is in receipt of an email pointing out to him the error of his ways. The next step will be up to him.
It is my hope he takes it before the administrator sees his post.
hcj
Last edited by hcjilson; 09-11-2008 at 10:04 AM.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Well, that's just Bill being Bill. We know who qualifies.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
I think the terrorist are just waiting to see which way the US people take the election. If we go the wrong way, they are going to punish us. Keep that in mind when you go to the polls!
Yeah, just look what they did to us after the 2000 election!
OptiBoard Administrator
----
OptiBoard has been proudly serving the Eyecare Community since 1995.
I think you are entirely correct in this regard. But entirely wrong in who you think will get us punished.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
They took over Spain.
But Barack has more international support and has the ability to negotiate, unlike McCain. Just because some foreigners think Barack would make a good US president, doesn't mean that we should automatically reject that person. Just as many of our so-called "enemies" (North Korea, Iran, some militant nations in Africa, etc.) have been more willing to talk with Condi Rice than previous US diplomats, because she knows when to compromise, when to give, and when to stand firm. Does that make Rice a terrorists' buddy? No. It makes her a valuable asset to this country. I don't see anyone trying to demonize her for it, the way they have with Obama. I think Barack is very similar in regards to Rice's ability to get what she wants without ticking everyone off, and at the same time safeguarding the US's interests. However, I'm not thrilled about some of Barack's very socialistic stances on economic issues. If we wanted to be governed by a European model, we'd move to Europe dangit!
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario: If Obama wins, we might improve our standing with the world, tensions and hostilities might ease and make Americans safer both at home and abroad. Yet at the same time, we'd have to put up with more taxes, restrictions on gun rights and probably some personal freedoms (more than there already are, at any rate).
If McCain gets into office, he and Palin will restrict our personal freedoms just as much, but in the opposite direction. Education will be stunted (it's bad enough as it is), more faith-based initiatives will be put in place, restrictions on a woman's reproductive rights, etc. We'll also end up starting another war or wars, either a Cold, Biological or Nuclear one, involving Russia, Venezuela, North Korea and Iran. We might be safer at home, but we'll more hated by the rest of the world (except for our buddies like the UK, Australia and Japan :D). More bad policies and military actions will incur anger against us, which will be more fodder for terrorists and thus create more threats against us.
Last edited by LilKim; 09-11-2008 at 12:07 PM.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/vi...10959?search=1
This is an in-depth composite conservative view. This is a big read, and I don't know if anyone's interested.
But, to those who really are prone to reducing this to absurd cartoon mentality, that there is a solid pro-war viewpoint.
In reality, NO ONE KNOWS what's ultimately right or ultimately wrong in human events--NO ONE. It's immature to suggest otherwise. What happens is that the powers that be exercise their best judgement in the best way they know how.
If Barack Obama were in the White House when all this happened instead of George Bush, seeing as I don't like his political philosophy, it would be natural for me to look at the half-empty instead of half-full glass. That's human nature.
It's good we live in a democracy. It's good that ultimately the people of the United States decide. In 2004, the US citizenry BARELY supported the administration by re-electing it. Now in 2008 as the Iraqi war winds down, we get a chance to vote for the guy who represents a supposedly similar or supposedly different approach. The political philosophy differences are stark.
Let the people decide on the direction the country should take. I, for one, feel the world is far too dangerous today and we need military strength and aggressiveness. These Islamists are cruel and dangerous, and they don't fight "fair". We must crush this movement by all means possible.
Look at Russia: in a way, who really cares about Georgia? But in another way, what is to become of mutual defense treaties like NATO? We need to stick with Europe to hold off Russian expansionism and Islamism. Whether Iran is all bluster or not, and whatever's going on in S. Korea, there is a lot of danger to the west. That's not to mention China's unreliabilty.
In my view, how in the world do we think that soft power is the way to go right now?
Believe it or not, Barack's foot-in-the mouth about meeting with enemies without preconditions etc. notwithstanding, an Obama administration would ultimately have to use force in the world. There's no way to negotiate with opponents who utilize only raw power, and he's no idiot.
The question is whether Obama's going to need too long to get up to speed on all this.
It is staggeringly naive to believe that the soft approach is correct.
On this day of all days - the righteous and justified revenge for 9/11 leaves no doubt that any attack on US interest will be met with over whelming force under the current party and administration. With the other party and its proposed administration - it is questionable?
An yes, bombs dropped on Germany were good and the right response. Bombs( including the big one) dropped on Japan were good and the right response. Bombs dropped on North Korea were good and the right response.
What is really scary is the notion by many that others wont do the same to us if given the slightest chance.
Security is an issue in this election and anyone that thinks that their life and safety wont be affected by their vote is delusional.
I am equally appalled by the 143 days of experience of the democratic presidential candidate and his long history of Marxist and socialist friends. Never in my lifetime did I conceive that any party could suggest a candidate with these credentials and associations.
My only hope is that throngs of voters who never vote will flood the polls and say enough of this nonsense.
Rep
Hmmm, seems I remember a famous Republican that said "Speak softly but carry a big stick." What's wrong with the soft talk backed by the might of the US military? Might be better than rattling sabers with talk of pre-emptive this and that.
And I hope the voters do flood the polls and say enough of this GOP nonsense.
I hope they can see through the fear tactics being employed here, for that's all it is - trying to make us afraid of Obama.
DragonlensmanWV N.A.O.L.
"There is nothing patriotic about hating your government or pretending you can hate your government but love your country."
Nonsense is paying too high a compliment to the current administration according to those who have read Woodward's The War Within A Secret White House History 2006-2008. His fourth and last book about Bush at war. Bush never had a clue, according to one reviewer. I haven't read it but am looking forward to getting a copy. A bag of hammers would have made a better president.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
I refuse to cartoonishly characterize the president, Harry. That's sadly simplistic and unworthy of serious discussion.
How does Bob Woodward carry any weight with you, other than he's the "god of investigative reporters"? He's not impartial. Even if he were, who appointed him judge? You, apparently?
Dragon, it HAS TO BE MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR to the world what our response to Iran is. That loudmouth pretender in Iran has to be given his response. To NOT do so is the height of irresponsiblity.
The US made-for-the-world-media response to that self-aggrandizing bullcrap is necessary to stabilize what Ahmedinejad (?) destabilitzes. Can't you see that? The markets? Israel? The nacent Iraq government? The factions in Iran that want him out?
If the US doesn't respond, Israel will, and they don't speak at all...they simply carry F16 sticks and use them. That, my friends, will be the beginning of the end.
"W" himself authorized Woodward's access to the White House. In which of the four books on the subject do you find Woodward less than partial. And, when granted unprecedented access to the White House, why shouldn't a reporter be allowed an opinion. In any event you obviously don't agree with him which doesn't exactly make you impartial either. But I digress..... The subject is Palin not Woodward, not the failed Bush presidency, or, for that matter, the Israeli air force.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
That's funny, particularly after how the President's supporters were crowing about how great Woodward's first book ("Bush At War") was because they like the portrayal of the President in it.
Not to be argumentative, but is it your belief that we should only believe journalists that write things favorable to Bush and ignore the rest? What criteria do you use to 'judge' him and anyone else?
The fact is that we all make our own judgements. Unfortunately too many of us (on all sides of an issue) often have knee-jerk reactions based on preconceived beliefs. The best of us tend to try to get our information from multiple sources and have the innate ability to analyze information. It's a skill set that is clearly endangered these days.
OptiBoard Administrator
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OptiBoard has been proudly serving the Eyecare Community since 1995.
You indeed must trust your own judgement to draw your own conclusions, Steve. Excellent point.
The Bush presidency is a public matter...one does not need insider information to judge it. Judge the results the way you see them.
My reaction against your post, Harry, is that you source a "reviewer" of Woodward's book...your account of an account of an account.
Last edited by drk; 09-12-2008 at 08:08 AM.
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