Freeform choices

[Robert Martellaro]

The Auto Plus is quite new here (it´s been named Spectrum as well) so my knowledge to this product is reduced. The Auto Plus is a new generation of the previus Auto Classic.

That might be what we call the "Element" here in the states.

The Auto Classic was build on the Genesis platform thus it´s much better than this. The Auto Plus is build on the Creation platform. It has been improved even more so what you get, compared to the previus Auto, is flatter base curves, lower astigmatic abberations, softer design, better distance and intermedia, three different zone lenghts (14, 16 & 18). What you NOT get, compared to Auto II, is design and Pow compensating that brings you even more clear vision, and noticeable better intermedia.

Got it. It should be a very good lens if the PAL design is based on the Creation. It'll be interesting to see how it's priced.

We still dont have any experience with this new lens so I will get back to that as soon we have some customer feedback.

Mike

Thanks Mike. I'll do the same.

[Mr.Powers]

It seams like Autograff II is the only lens on the market that all user of optiboard can agree on is a great lens, just like varilux comfort 10 yaers ago.


best regards

Peter

[OCP]

That might be what we call the "Element" here in the states.

Hi Robert.

No the Element is a generic version of Autograph.
Auto Plus is a totally new design.

Mike

[OCP]

That might be what we call the "Element" here in the states.


Got it. It should be a very good lens if the PAL design is based on the Creation. It'll be interesting to see how it's priced.

Thanks Mike. I'll do the same.

Hi Robert

I just receive the data for Autograph Plus to put in my EyeView. Still no customer feedback, but the plot looks amazing, but still need some more information.

Three different plots, in 14-16 and 18 mm design.

Mike

[Fezz]

Still no customer feedback, but the plot looks amazing, but still need some more information.

Three different plots, in 14-16 and 18 mm design.

Mike

The plots look amazing?

They................................look amazing?

They look amazing.........compared to what?

[OCP]

The plots look amazing?

They................................look amazing?

They look amazing.........compared to what?

Compared to older generations of Freeform optics the Autograph Plus design looks very innovative.
Shamir new aspherical design for clear vision in oblique angels, makes the plot looks a lot more different than previous designs.

The new designs from Shamir minimize the abberations level in the lens (makes the area with clear vision bigger), by putting some of the distortion/abberations outside the frame, in the bottom (you cut it of). See attached comparison.

Mike

[Mr. Finney]

Maybe it's just me, but the Classic plot looks better to me.

[Fezz]

Maybe it's just me, but the Classic plot looks better to me.

I am no plot reading genius..............but I am picking up what you are dropping!

What am I missing here?

[OCP]

Maybe it's just me, but the Classic plot looks better to me.

By first glance your right.
But if you measure the width of the reading area it´s amazing on the new Plus. Almost total width.

I´m looking forward to see the lens in true life.

Mike

[Mr. Finney]

Why is it that in the first set of plots both lenses are listed as lefts, but the Classic looks mysteriously right-oriented? And, okay, so the near area has significantly less astigmatic error, but the things that are more important to me, i.e. clear distance and corridor width, look better in the Classic. I'm not knocking the new lens, I'm just not seeing a huge upgrade.

[OCP]

Why is it that in the first set of plots both lenses are listed as lefts, but the Classic looks mysteriously right-oriented? And, okay, so the near area has significantly less astigmatic error, but the things that are more important to me, i.e. clear distance and corridor width, look better in the Classic. I'm not knocking the new lens, I'm just not seeing a huge upgrade.

The plot can mostly being used as "Design picture". Not that "this is how it works". I tell you, that we have here 8 years of development, so I´m sure it works better.
It´s a flatter design as well.

Mike

[OCP]

Why is it that in the first set of plots both lenses are listed as lefts, but the Classic looks mysteriously right-oriented? And, okay, so the near area has significantly less astigmatic error, but the things that are more important to me, i.e. clear distance and corridor width, look better in the Classic. I'm not knocking the new lens, I'm just not seeing a huge upgrade.

Please don´t be concerned with details about left and right.
These plot are only simple "Cylinder-plots". I can tell you that the spherical power is much wider in the intermediate zone than in the Classic Autograph.

Mike

[Fezz]

Please don´t be concerned with details about left and right.
These plot are only simple "Cylinder-plots". I can tell you that the spherical power is much wider in the intermediate zone than in the Classic Autograph.

Mike

Yeah Mr. Finney!

STOP getting so wrapped up in details! OCP has already told us that these plots look "AMAZING".

If he says that they look "AMAZING", than dammitt, they are "AMAZING"!

What more do you want, sheesh!

[OCP]

Yeah Mr. Finney!

STOP getting so wrapped up in details! OCP has already told us that these plots look "AMAZING".

If he says that they look "AMAZING", than dammitt, they are "AMAZING"!

What more do you want, sheesh!

Wow, what an statement.
Thanks.

Obvious this plot only looks like a draw made by a child to you.
But for me this plot is really amazing, because it shows design development, and not only an upgrade from previous designs.
I´m sure the new Autograph Plus will be a decent improvement from the Classic Autograph.

Mike

[Robert Martellaro]

The slightly wider intermediate comes at a price- it looks like slightly more astigmatism at the distance periphery. I'm not sure I agree with the trade-off, although it would make this an easier lens to fit, more forgiving of inaccurate horizontal positioning of the optics. The unwanted surface astigmatism is a very good 1.50 DC for a +2.00D Add, pretty much state of the art performance for the latest generation of lenses. Might be a giant killer if it's priced to be competitive with the most expensive traditionally ground PALs.

But the proof is in the pudding- it looks like another lens that I'll have to try in front of my eyes.

Mike,

Any chance you have the surface plots for the AUTO 2 fixed 18 and 15 on hand?

Thanks

[OCP]

The slightly wider intermediate comes at a price- it looks like slightly more astigmatism at the distance periphery. I'm not sure I agree with the trade-off, although it would make this an easier lens to fit, more forgiving of inaccurate horizontal positioning of the optics. The unwanted surface astigmatism is a very good 1.50 DC for a +2.00D Add, pretty much state of the art performance for the latest generation of lenses. Might be a giant killer if it's priced to be competitive with the most expensive traditionally ground PALs.

But the proof is in the pudding- it looks like another lens that I'll have to try in front of my eyes.

Mike,

Any chance you have the surface plots for the AUTO 2 fixed 18 and 15 on hand?

Thanks

Hi Robert.

Here you are in four different fixed designs.

As you can see, we got very small areas with cylinder astigmatism.
Please note, that these plots are only cylinder plots. The pupil is placed in the white cross, so the distortion/abberations is very low placed and therefor the Auto II brings you fully 5-175 degree of clear vision.
We got spherical power plots as well, but these can be difficult to understand prober, so I will only public the cylinder plots to avoid any misinformation.



Mike

[geoflem]

I have had a lot of luck with the freedom accolade and the turnaround time dropped dramatically at the end of the year/ we get $389(1.670) for accolade with ar,src,uv. I tell patients who just have to have a frame with a small b measure that this is the best lens for that type of frame due to frame optimization.

[sharpstick777]

The machines Schneider and Satis Loh and Opto-Tech are the 3 most widely used worldwide and are all successfully producing lens designs from different manufacturers.

Rodenstock and many others use the Schneider's in their own labs... if that tells you anything. The new Scheider Sprint line is both small and much less expensive than anything else I have seen.

[AWTECH]

Rodenstock and many others use the Schneider's in their own labs... if that tells you anything. The new Scheider Sprint line is both small and much less expensive than anything else I have seen.

I am not sure what your point was, but all of the machine manufacturers now have a small line at similar price points.

Differences between the small and larger lines have to do with features such as speed of processing and ability to fully automate the line.

Nothing against Schneider and their small line but they are not the only supplier with equipment in that price point.

[Optoanomalicious]

C'mon Guys,

Freeform technologies has always been pioneered by first, Rodenstock, and second, Carl Zeiss. Rodenstock has been the pioneer for freeform technology. The only thing that would be missing for you would be the material, since they dont have poly. However, their material is quite strong because they have just replenished their older 1.52 index to 1.54 for all of their photochromic products.

And last but not least, hope you dont mind with the colormatic, not transitions.

[barryh66]

Digital Eye Lab
This is our fully automated spectacle lens laboratory 100% focused on the fabrication of Freeform® Digitally surfaced backside PALs and single vision lenses. Every lens is engineered to account for the minutest variations in prescription, face measurements and frame measurements. This results in eye wear truly personalized to your patients’ needs and lifestyle. To ensure that orders aren’t delayed, all finishing services including: edging, drill mounting, tinting, and applying the most advanced AR coating, ClarisHD, are done in-house; the turn around time is approximately 3 days
The Widest Selection of Materials & Designs from Shamir, Seiko, Indo, and Digital 5.0 with pricing that can help you increase your profit margins!
http://digitaleyelab.com

Digital eye lab should be all you claim it to be, but having a rash of problems lately I called and talked to Michael the "go to guy". Come to find out they have not been inputting pow measurements on must job He said "it makes no differences". I asked if online ordering is coming soon and was told they had it. If you go to there web site you can fill out a form and print it they then will input that into the order taking. I received a +5.00 sph instead of +0.50 because someone reentered it wrong. It seems they think new equipment makes up for experience. I do several thousand a month there but may start looking else where.

[CCrawford]

Digital Eye Lab is the only lab in the US that produces Indo. We also have our own D5 family of lenses that meet every criteria you mentioned below. I'd love to help you get in contact with a local rep. If you pm me with your information, I will make sure you get a couple of vouchers with our catalogue to get you started.

Barry's got me thinking. I have been contemplating diving into the freeform progressive lenses. I've been knocking it around for over a year. But my criteria are tough. For example, I will only offer freeform to my patients if transitions is available because often transitions is the last thing mentioned and I don't want to have to tell them "sorry, not available".
So I would like the massive brainpower of the board to help - If you would be so kind.

Here are my criteria:
1. as mentioned, must be available in Transitions
2. must be able to fit as low as 15mm (I'm not going to try a 13mm fit, even if it's possible)
2. must be available in poly, Trivex, 1.60 and at least one of the high-index materials from 1.66 to 1.74. CR-39 availability is of no value to me.
3. must be a design that someone has had good luck with
4. must have turn-around time (w/AR) of one-week or less
5. THis is the most important: I must be able to turn a profit at an $80 add-on charge for the "Freeform" processed lens. And I get my traditionally surfaced lenses pretty inexpensively.

Is there anything even out there? Maybe I need 2 go-to lenses for these criteria. My short list includes Accolade freedom (no trivex:( and no personal experience), Definity, Unique, Autograph II (no experience, is cost an issue?), Hoya iD lifestyle (too expensive??), Seiko/pentax internal (Succeed? Superceed? I don't even know the proper name). I noticed Craig loves the Indo product, but I can't find a lab that even offers it.

I love the combined knowledge and experience of the board, so you are my go-to guys and gals for this type experimental data.

Since this is public, you can PM me with specifics on pricing or any negative comments.

Thanks in advance!!
Marc

[CCrawford]

I apologize for the rash of problems that you have experienced lately. I disagree with the statement that the POW measurements make no difference; in a typical "brown-round" that may have been the case but when was the last time you sold one of those? Yes, we have great default measurements for the jobs that come in without them, but if you are taking the time with the patient to get those 3 extra measurements and you're providing us with that information, we should definitely be using them to even further customize the lenses. POW measurements make all the difference in the world to the patient, especially if the lenses are going into a more trendy frame style. As to the order entry errors and the experience of our customer service representatives, I can only say that we do make mistakes and although the company-wide spoilage rate is pretty low, we still haven't achieved perfection. I'd like to know what we've done to take care of the situations so if you'd like to pm me, I'd be happy to help, maybe even put the orders in myself if you'd like to fax them over to me. I can't promise I'll never make a mistake but I will check, check and double check. :-)

Digital eye lab should be all you claim it to be, but having a rash of problems lately I called and talked to Michael the "go to guy". Come to find out they have not been inputting pow measurements on must job He said "it makes no differences". I asked if online ordering is coming soon and was told they had it. If you go to there web site you can fill out a form and print it they then will input that into the order taking. I received a +5.00 sph instead of +0.50 because someone reentered it wrong. It seems they think new equipment makes up for experience. I do several thousand a month there but may start looking else where.

[samuel]

Who's ever tried the nice Tokai Japanese designs Resonas? It seems you see with the brain and not with the eyes!