McCain's Choice

[chip anderson]

K:
You are aware that no one can "manage" a family. Everyone has family members that make mistakes. Do you think Obama's family was and outstanding example for him?
We all see families where some children turn out excellent while thier sibblings have big problems or turn out bad? We see many children that are excellent and in the long run turn out bad. We see other children that appear to be totally rotten and somehow manage to be excellent adults.

Of course I am sure all of your family members are excellent examples for us all to follow.

Chip

[KStraker]

K:
You are aware that no one can "manage" a family. Everyone has family members that make mistakes. Do you think Obama's family was and outstanding example for him?
We all see families where some children turn out excellent while thier sibblings have big problems or turn out bad? We see many children that are excellent and in the long run turn out bad. We see other children that appear to be totally rotten and somehow manage to be excellent adults.

Of course I am sure all of your family members are excellent examples for us all to follow.

Chip

I don't have a wife and kids. I'm not sure that I would be very good at either. We are far, far from perfect. I'm not running for VP though, and neither are my siblings.

I take some of my opinions from 1 Timothy 3:12 regarding qualifications for deacons "...and he must manage his children and household well."
This idea is applicable in a larger sense also. Should the election of a deacon in my local church have more stringent criteria than my country's VP? I think not.

As for Obama's family. I think there is a difference in being a child in a bad situation versus being the parent.
-Kevin

PS- please don't follow my example. I just got off probation for a DUI that occurred two years ago. Then again that's pretty normal behavior comparatively, go ahead and put my name on the ballot!

[k12311997]

This lady can't manage her own family,much less a whole country, even a small one with more caribou than people. She's going to be a mother of an infant, grandmother to a new born, and still take care of her duties as VP. Each one of these seems like a full time job. Seems like she did a great job with her knocked up 17 year old. Please, lets give her the most powerful nation in the world to help run.

As far as health care goes, how about we take some of the 12 Billion we spend in Iraq every month and provide something for our own people, like some kind of health care. Iraq has an 80 Billion dollar budget surplus and our economy is in the crapper. Can I please have some more of this?

Clinton's personal behavior didn't matter , how does her daughters play into it? not to mention the whole decision to not kill the baby and the fact that the father has stood up and decided to be a family man, from my side of the fence that makes a bad situation better.

[LilKim]

The pregnancy of Sarah Palin's daughter is a slap in the face to the pro-abstinence group, backed by Bush, McCain, and Palin herself. If the teenage daughter of a so-called upstanding conservative got knocked up despite the morals instilled in her (I'm guessing) by her Christian family, what does that say about the whole idea of promoting abstinence over safe sex? It's because in most cases it doesn't work, has been proven not to work, and if she'd gone on a contraceptive when she turned sixteen like a smart girl should've (and a smart mother would've taken her to a gynocologist and gotten her a prescription for it instead of avoiding the issue like most parents do), neither she nor her mother would be in this position. It's not about a bad situation being resolved (relatively) positively, it's about the end-product of a failed religious-based policy that this woman (who is now running for VP) endorses, and that's also affected the lives of thousands of other teenagers in the exact same way. They all end up pregnant. The conservative base is trying to put a positive spin on this story to distract everyone from this underlying issue, just like the Democrats are trying to hype Palin's inexperience to distract from Obama's equal lack of experience.

[kidsparrow]

LilKim, you took the words out of my mouth. (Standing ovation)

[For-Life]

While I believe her daughter should be off limits and is a non-issue, I do find it funny that conservatives who preach family values are faced with this. I am sick of hearing about how a politician who has an affair is completely evil and not fit for office. Now, the Republicans are tasting their own dessert on this one.

Now, maybe they can talk about real issues.

[LilKim]

Kidsparrow: Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

For-Life: Yes, turnabout's fair play. While a pregnant teenage daughter isn't quite as scandalous as the President getting a BJ from an intern, it still pokes a hole in the Neo-Conservatives' inane policies. If they wouldn't put themselves up on such a high, godly pedestal, perhaps they wouldn't fall as hard when things blow up in their face.

[Spexvet]

I know I said I would avoid politics but...
Is there a man alive (except Barney Franks) who wouldn't vote for this woman?
If women voted for JFK because they thought he was prettier than Nixon, just think what men will do for the Gov. of Alaska!

Chip

So you voted for Bush because you find him attractive?

I think Michael Palin is a great choice - I love his work with Monty Python's Flying Circus. What? That's not tha Palin you're talking about?

It seems to me that McCain chose Palin for a couple of reasons. She competes for the voters who would choose Obama solely because he is a minority. She is also more conservative than McCain, which panders to the repubican base.

I agree whole heartedly with Lilkim. Preaching abstinence just DOES NOT WORK! Is there any better proof than this situation?

Repubicans weigh in:

"I mean I think that she already has more executive experience than Sen. Obama and Sen. Biden combined."

When moderator Bob Schieffer asked how Palin's experience as a mayor and governor in little populated Alaska could outweigh Obama's and Biden's, Giuliani chuckled.

"Sure. You know why?" said Giuliani. "She had to make decisions. All Sen. Obama has had to do is talk. That's all he does."

Sen. Fred Thompson, another failed presidential contender, added to the refrain when he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer, "Wolf, I hate to break it to you, but you don't get national experience by being on the Sunday talk shows….She has more experience than Barack Obama."

Speaking on ABC's "This Week with George Stephanapolous," Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.) added, "She's done things Obama would never dream of."

More experience than Obama? B.S. "All Sen. Obama has had to do is talk"? That's all McCain has had to do, as well. Sounds like they're circling the wagons... remember the Harriet Miers nomination?

[Leighlee]

This lady can't manage her own family,much less a whole country, even a small one with more caribou than people. She's going to be a mother of an infant, grandmother to a new born, and still take care of her duties as VP. Each one of these seems like a full time job. Seems like she did a great job with her knocked up 17 year old. Please, lets give her the most powerful nation in the world to help run.

As far as health care goes, how about we take some of the 12 Billion we spend in Iraq every month and provide something for our own people, like some kind of health care. Iraq has an 80 Billion dollar budget surplus and our economy is in the crapper. Can I please have some more of this?

I usually don't get involved in these kinds of threads...but really???!! Anyone who has had kids, knows that they often have a different agenda from your own... The best of families have their share of troubles, and embarrassments. And please...I seem to remember Edwards being the fair haired boy back a few years ago...now look at him...Is Palin any different or just more honest?

[For-Life]

If I was an American, I would not be voting based on Palin having a 17 year old daughter with a kid, nor for her based on having a child with down syndrome. I would not be voting for Obama because he is black and young, and I would not be voting for Palin because she is a she. I would not be voting based on the fact that Obama can speak very well, nor would I do it based on the wonderful convention the Dems pulled. I would not do it, because John McCain is a war vet, nor would I do it because he is old. I would not do it because Biden is from Delaware, and I would not do it because Biden is from Alaska. I would not do it because one is catholic and one is Episcopalian, nor would I care if he or she is Jewish or Muslim or athiest.

I would base my pick on the candidate that best reflects my social and fiscal image. The one who believes in the same principals that I do. I vote on the one who can best handle the economy. The one who can best handle sustainable energy and the environment. The one who can make the best decisions with foreign relations and security.

And I would not do it, because I think it will put more money in my pocket or start the most wars or avoid wars for the wrong reason. I would do it based on who is the most responsible decision maker. The one who can keep the economy moving forward, yet be competent enough to balance the budget. The one who can balance energy resources without destruction on the environment. The one who can have the guts to fight the right wars and the brains to avoid the wrong ones.

I have my opinion of who that candidate is in the American election, and additionally in the upcoming Canadian election (coming October 14th, 2008).

[k12311997]

The pregnancy of Sarah Palin's daughter is a slap in the face to the pro-abstinence group, backed by Bush, McCain, and Palin herself. If the teenage daughter of a so-called upstanding conservative got knocked up despite the morals instilled in her (I'm guessing) by her Christian family, what does that say about the whole idea of promoting abstinence over safe sex? It's because in most cases it doesn't work, has been proven not to work, and if she'd gone on a contraceptive when she turned sixteen like a smart girl should've (and a smart mother would've taken her to a gynocologist and gotten her a prescription for it instead of avoiding the issue like most parents do), neither she nor her mother would be in this position. It's not about a bad situation being resolved (relatively) positively, it's about the end-product of a failed religious-based policy that this woman (who is now running for VP) endorses, and that's also affected the lives of thousands of other teenagers in the exact same way. They all end up pregnant. The conservative base is trying to put a positive spin on this story to distract everyone from this underlying issue, just like the Democrats are trying to hype Palin's inexperience to distract from Obama's equal lack of experience.

So.....LilKim you personally know that she is not on the pill or didn't practice safe sex with a condom?

Just because you believe in abstinence is best, it doesn't meen you don't practice an ounce of prevention. Moral conservatisim does not preclude realisim.

[LilKim]

For one, no, I don't claim to personally know the girl. I doubt I'd want to anyway--she doesn't seem like the type of person I prefer to be around. Besides, the likelihood of her getting pregnant while using condoms, taking the pill, or both, would've minimized her chances of conception to almost nil, especially if she was only with one guy. There's just only so many times a day, every day, two people can get it on to conceive a child whether by accident or on purpose. That is how I came to my conclusion about her not being on any sort of birth control. Even if a condom broke at some point, if she'd been on the pill, there would've been very little to worry about.

Two, abstinence is not safe sex, with condoms and birth control, it is no sex. If she was raised under the "no sex is the safest sex" agenda, via her parents and education, it obviously didn't work. That was my main point, that the ultra-conservative family unit couldn't even get their ludicrous anti-teen-pregnancy technique to work on one of their own children.
:hammer:

[chip anderson]

Who amoung us has never let hormones and feramones over-rule good sense?
Lots of first stones being thrown here.

Chip

[k12311997]

For one, no, I don't claim to personally know the girl. I doubt I'd want to anyway--she doesn't seem like the type of person I prefer to be around. Besides, the likelihood of her getting pregnant while using condoms, taking the pill, or both, would've minimized her chances of conception to almost nil, especially if she was only with one guy. There's just only so many times a day, every day, two people can get it on to conceive a child whether by accident or on purpose. That is how I came to my conclusion about her not being on any sort of birth control. Even if a condom broke at some point, if she'd been on the pill, there would've been very little to worry about.

Two, abstinence is not safe sex, with condoms and birth control, it is no sex. If she was raised under the "no sex is the safest sex" agenda, via her parents and education, it obviously didn't work. That was my main point, that the ultra-conservative family unit couldn't even get their ludicrous anti-teen-pregnancy technique to work on one of their own children.
:hammer:

your point is, because you feel that the way you view their situation is accurate, that is the way it must be?

conclusions require proof, validation, and specifics not generalizations

I'll see your:hammer: and raise you a:finger:

[For-Life]

Who amoung us has never let hormones and feramones over-rule good sense?
Lots of first stones being thrown here.

Chip

We have been hearing these things from Conservatives for years now.

Interesting that now opinions change.

[For-Life]

your point is, because you feel that the way you view their situation is accurate, that is the way it must be?

conclusions require proof, validation, and specifics not generalizations

I'll see your:hammer: and raise you a:finger:

I think the big thing here is that McCain has argued for abstinence (more out of touch), and you cannot get pregnant through abstinence.

Even so, you cannot control everything your kids do. The only reason why I even discuss this is due to the irony. Personally, I do not care if her daughter is pregnant or not.

[k12311997]

I think the big thing here is that McCain has argued for abstinence (more out of touch), and you cannot get pregnant through abstinence.

Even so, you cannot control everything your kids do. The only reason why I even discuss this is due to the irony. Personally, I do not care if her daughter is pregnant or not.

For-Life, I've responded to nothing about your posts in this line of conversation, because I've found nothing disagreeable. Rarely do I agree with your politics, rarely do I fault your ability to reason. LilKim on the other hand is just simply providing unreasoned hate of all things conservative.

[For-Life]

For-Life, I've responded to nothing about your posts in this line of conversation, because I've found nothing disagreeable. Rarely do I agree with your politics, rarely do I fault your ability to reason. LilKim on the other hand is just simply providing unreasoned hate of all things conservative.

That is fine

Just wanted to make sure the message is understood.

[fjpod]

The pregnancy of Sarah Palin's daughter is a slap in the face to the pro-abstinence group, backed by Bush, McCain, and Palin herself. If the teenage daughter of a so-called upstanding conservative got knocked up despite the morals instilled in her (I'm guessing) by her Christian family, what does that say about the whole idea of promoting abstinence over safe sex? It's because in most cases it doesn't work, has been proven not to work, and if she'd gone on a contraceptive when she turned sixteen like a smart girl should've (and a smart mother would've taken her to a gynocologist and gotten her a prescription for it instead of avoiding the issue like most parents do), neither she nor her mother would be in this position. It's not about a bad situation being resolved (relatively) positively, it's about the end-product of a failed religious-based policy that this woman (who is now running for VP) endorses, and that's also affected the lives of thousands of other teenagers in the exact same way. They all end up pregnant. The conservative base is trying to put a positive spin on this story to distract everyone from this underlying issue, just like the Democrats are trying to hype Palin's inexperience to distract from Obama's equal lack of experience.

Good post.

[LilKim]

Rarely do I agree with your politics, rarely do I fault your ability to reason. LilKim on the other hand is just simply providing unreasoned hate of all things conservative.

On the contrary, k, there are many conservative issues that I agree with. I am a moderate Libertarian who takes a conservative stance on some issues, and a liberal one on others, with moderation in between. Besides my anti-abstinence-only program stance, why would you assume I hate all things conservative? That's a rather large assumption on your part. There are some issues that I am passionate about, others that go against the very core of my being.

conclusions require proof, validation, and specifics not generalizations

The girl is pregnant. How much more validation or proof is necessary than that simple fact? It's just as For Life said above: You cannot get pregnant through abstinence. Palin has popped out a brood of kids, and the youngest one, the 4 month old, has Down's Syndrome, which is commonly found in children whose mothers had them too late in their reproductive cycle. It's unfortunate, but probably could've been prevented had she stopped at child #4. Obviously the mother is not a proponent of birth control if she can't be bothered to practice it herself, so why would her daughter practice it? Those kinds of views tend to be passed on from parents to children.

Abstinence-only programs should be perused by ONLY a church or religious organization, and the family that decides that this is the best course. It should never have made its way into the public education system, and Palin has stated that she is vehemently AGAINST any sort of real sexual education. Those of which might include abstinence, but also reinforce it with detailed sexual education and open discussions in school, while also making available various forms of birth control to students in a discreet manner.

[bt5050]

Why is NOT ok - for a woman with a family - to be able to say ( HANDLE IT ) - the whole VP JOB - the Family JOB - and all - YET -

REMEMBER our buddy OBAMA - has 2 kids - and a wife - also !

So why is it OK _ and not a BIG deal for OBAMA to BE PResident with a family - yet a VP - can not Juggle BOTH ?

WHy are we not saying - NO MAN OR WOMAN WITH A FAMILY can and should be a President or VP ?

Ill tell you 1 thing - MY wife - Being a mom - and having a High stressed FT job - Does better then MOST OF US MEN - !!

Also- lets all remember - THE STAFF - and HELP SHE WILL HAVE OPEN TO HER to help !!

IT is sad how the MEDIA - shows that they are in bed with the Obama Crew !
and how bad THEY want him in office !!! Esp Cnn and MSNBC - IT is so corrupt.

Personally I feel that the media should go back to the days when the Family's where "HANDS OFF" -
Although we all try to bring up our children the best way we know how - HOW CAN U HOLD the her so responsible for her daughters situation - ?

Man in some states - SHE COULD have been married YEARS ago - ! SHE IS HER OWN PERSON ! WHO ARE WE ELECTING HER DAUGHTER - OR SARAH ?

LASTLY - I Just think it is funny - when u looked at it say 2 mnths before- OBama's team was saying - OH experience doesn't matter - the person does -
well now it is a different story ?
I personally feel that Sarah - being at the bottom of MCains ticket - HAS MORE EXPERIENCE - then the TOP OF MR OBAMA's

IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING - NOV 4th - to say the least
HAve a great DAY everyone

[DragonLensmanWV]

Why is NOT ok - for a woman with a family - to be able to say ( HANDLE IT ) - the whole VP JOB - the Family JOB - and all - YET -

REMEMBER our buddy OBAMA - has 2 kids - and a wife - also !

So why is it OK _ and not a BIG deal for OBAMA to BE PResident with a family - yet a VP - can not Juggle BOTH ?

WHy are we not saying - NO MAN OR WOMAN WITH A FAMILY can and should be a President or VP ?

Ill tell you 1 thing - MY wife - Being a mom - and having a High stressed FT job - Does better then MOST OF US MEN - !!

Also- lets all remember - THE STAFF - and HELP SHE WILL HAVE OPEN TO HER to help !!

IT is sad how the MEDIA - shows that they are in bed with the Obama Crew !
and how bad THEY want him in office !!! Esp Cnn and MSNBC - IT is so corrupt.

Amply balanced by Talk Radio and Fox News. Since Fox News wants McCain so much - THAT MEANS FOX NEWS IS ALSO CORRUPT!


Personally I feel that the media should go back to the days when the Family's where "HANDS OFF" -

I Agree there.

Although we all try to bring up our children the best way we know how - HOW CAN U HOLD the her so responsible for her daughters situation - ?

Man in some states - SHE COULD have been married YEARS ago - ! SHE IS HER OWN PERSON ! WHO ARE WE ELECTING HER DAUGHTER - OR SARAH ?

LASTLY - I Just think it is funny - when u looked at it say 2 mnths before- OBama's team was saying - OH experience doesn't matter - the person does -
well now it is a different story ?

Turn that back at you- McCain's been saying Obama's lack of experience makes him unworthy, how then does Palin's lack of experience (less than Obama's) make her worthy? Answer - it can't. BOTH sides should lay off the "inexperienced" label.

I personally feel that Sarah - being at the bottom of MCains ticket - HAS MORE EXPERIENCE - then the TOP OF MR OBAMA's


Too bad truth renders that wrong. Personal feelings aside, running a 2000 person town makes you a viable candidate?

IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING - NOV 4th - to say the least
HAve a great DAY everyone

Yes it will. Be warned however, both candidates will flip and flop, like they ALL HAVE so far (Palin: I was for the bridge to nowhere before I was against it) and everyone will point out the discrepancies.

[bt5050]

Yes it will. Be warned however, both candidates will flip and flop, like they ALL HAVE so far (Palin: I was for the bridge to nowhere before I was against it) and everyone will point out the discrepancies.

Wouldn't her 18 mnths - running and actually producing some kind of results in alaska be more then Obama's 3 years in senate - with his almost 2 yrs on the compain trail ?

From what i have read - she has has her name marked on more things in her VERY VERY short time - then his time ?

Persoanlly - I am REALLY up in the air about the whole thing - I really try to watch all media - ( from CNN- to FOX to many blogs) ( but WIll never watch msnbc and i KNOW MOST feel that way - LOOK AT THERE RATINGS ALONE ) -
i find it odd that some folks will only watch these librial media outlets and will never look at much else - since it doesn't alwasy support their VIEWS -

take a look at those nuts on the huffington post - and Daily KOS - it is clear those nut are way off base - from most americians - that i really feel try to be in the middle and not one EITHER EXTREME -

Since it is clear both sides have Crazy Folks !
I like to watch ALL the channels - since i am trying to FIND SOME !! truth in it - and one can not do this - without keeping an open mind -

I just think it is not right for the LEFT to jump on her so much - and her family -
It shows that they may be a bit concerned at the whole thing - since they came out so nutty about her ! ( don't u think ? )

I kinda actually Liked OBAMA - UNTIL - oprah decided to come out for him so strongly - and then to top it off - HE SPOKE OF CHANGE - CHNAGE - CHNAGE - (( THAT part really made me excited - ) _ BUT then he picks a VP - THAT is a Washington insider - that has been there 35 YEARS !!! -

HOW CAN THAT BE REAL CHANGE NOW ?

Politicians are are Crooks spending other folks hard earned $$ - some are just better at fooling some then others ? I think they all flip flop - depending on who they want to support them - for the minute ?

[For-Life]

18 months gives you enough time to warm up, pump out a few things, and not see the results of your actions yet.

Where was George Bush at 18 months? No Iraq War, stood up to Afghanistan and still time to catch Osama, and not seeing the time tested against his tax cuts.


Obama was in the Senate for three and a half years, correct. But he was in the Illinois Senate before that. I would consider Illinois a State that is large enough to have major meaning.

and Yes, she has made a name for herself. Within 18 months, she has already been charged for corruption.

[kidsparrow]

I actually really enjoy Huffington Post and Daily Kos. :p I refuse to watch FoxNews, so to each his own!